UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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SS - a very concise post which pretty much sums up how to "control" assets, very much along the lines of the efficient/inefficient, multiple filter, conundrum that JAFO posted earlier.
If anyone's ever worked in a border-free environment, so long as there's just one initial contact freq (ICF) that everyone (in that area) listens to, the nearest aircraft, whether airborne or not, will pick up the job if they have the fuel/weather to do so - using the same ICF to inform all of their intentions, or reasons for their inability to lift. If each force control room uses the same ICF, they just call up for the nearest aircraft - a quick phone call to adjacent units prior to each shift brief will keep everyone aware of serviceability & availability issues in the area. The "monitoring" room, however, will do exactly that, monitor. The costs, if necessary, will be sorted out from the task/evidence system post flight, while the on-job updates will be on the local talk-group anyway.
Controlling aircraft, IMHO, is not the way to go. Those who do the job are invariably far more aware as to whether it's valid or not, so long as they get the right info, and will react accordingly. Introducing another filter between one force control room (as JAFO mentioned) is just another way of slowing the process and causes further delay.
The pilot issue is another matter which has the potential to get more painful than the Observer one - just as Art points out. Licence or not, most are likely to find it difficult to pick up similar jobs when a number of their ilk may be out on their ear. This is a professional PILOT rumour network, though we're most of us are gentlemen enough to allow the non-polers a fair crack of the whip - however, we'd all be grateful for a little sensitivity over potential prospects, I'm sure.
On a separate matter, and whilst it's now been sorted - those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. JAFO's "we" was quite correct for those who understand English - maybe checking the spelling of "appart" would be worthwhile prior to criticism!?
If anyone's ever worked in a border-free environment, so long as there's just one initial contact freq (ICF) that everyone (in that area) listens to, the nearest aircraft, whether airborne or not, will pick up the job if they have the fuel/weather to do so - using the same ICF to inform all of their intentions, or reasons for their inability to lift. If each force control room uses the same ICF, they just call up for the nearest aircraft - a quick phone call to adjacent units prior to each shift brief will keep everyone aware of serviceability & availability issues in the area. The "monitoring" room, however, will do exactly that, monitor. The costs, if necessary, will be sorted out from the task/evidence system post flight, while the on-job updates will be on the local talk-group anyway.
Controlling aircraft, IMHO, is not the way to go. Those who do the job are invariably far more aware as to whether it's valid or not, so long as they get the right info, and will react accordingly. Introducing another filter between one force control room (as JAFO mentioned) is just another way of slowing the process and causes further delay.
The pilot issue is another matter which has the potential to get more painful than the Observer one - just as Art points out. Licence or not, most are likely to find it difficult to pick up similar jobs when a number of their ilk may be out on their ear. This is a professional PILOT rumour network, though we're most of us are gentlemen enough to allow the non-polers a fair crack of the whip - however, we'd all be grateful for a little sensitivity over potential prospects, I'm sure.
On a separate matter, and whilst it's now been sorted - those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. JAFO's "we" was quite correct for those who understand English - maybe checking the spelling of "appart" would be worthwhile prior to criticism!?
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Wag....
... not strictly true - the NPAS planners will surely know how they would like the deployments to be made 
You're right in that I don't KNOW what their plans are, but because their thoughts don't seem to be shared with the various Air Units,
and very little information has been released into the Public domain, people ( including myself ) will naturally worry that the plans being made are flawed.
Can anyone think of a reason as to WHY the plans, in detail, should not be made Public ?
Doing so would give an opportunity for a lot of very knowledgable folk to contribute,
together with airing the views of the thousands of Police Officers and staff that the service is there to support,
adding in the views of the Public who are ultimately paying for it all ?
How many times do we see something go wrong and then hold a Public enquiry to find out why ?
Why don't we have an open and honest Public consultation now, and avoid the need for an Enquiry later ?
Maybe NPAS are planning to hold a Public consultation before going "live",
but they just haven't made that bit public yet ?
The whole thing is a bit like an incident being studied on a CRM Course,
where all the links of the chain remain unbroken, and all the holes in the cheese are lined up,
only instead of resulting in an AAIB report, we could end up with a Public Enquiry into why Police Air Support has "crashed".
Yes there has been talk of central control rooms, but at this time no one is aware of how the deployments will be made.
You're right in that I don't KNOW what their plans are, but because their thoughts don't seem to be shared with the various Air Units,
and very little information has been released into the Public domain, people ( including myself ) will naturally worry that the plans being made are flawed.
Can anyone think of a reason as to WHY the plans, in detail, should not be made Public ?
Doing so would give an opportunity for a lot of very knowledgable folk to contribute,
together with airing the views of the thousands of Police Officers and staff that the service is there to support,
adding in the views of the Public who are ultimately paying for it all ?
How many times do we see something go wrong and then hold a Public enquiry to find out why ?
Why don't we have an open and honest Public consultation now, and avoid the need for an Enquiry later ?
Maybe NPAS are planning to hold a Public consultation before going "live",
but they just haven't made that bit public yet ?
The whole thing is a bit like an incident being studied on a CRM Course,
where all the links of the chain remain unbroken, and all the holes in the cheese are lined up,
only instead of resulting in an AAIB report, we could end up with a Public Enquiry into why Police Air Support has "crashed".
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
With just over 9 months to go before the NPAS baby arrives, we could look at now as being the 'messy stage' !
..or to look at it another way, there's a lot of
ing around under the covers going on, keeping it quiet from the 'grandparents' ! 
Problem is, when it arrives in April we could well discover that we have painted the room the wrong colour, after ignoring Grandmas intuition of what it was going to be, and haven't the change left over to repaint
..or to look at it another way, there's a lot of
ing around under the covers going on, keeping it quiet from the 'grandparents' ! Problem is, when it arrives in April we could well discover that we have painted the room the wrong colour, after ignoring Grandmas intuition of what it was going to be, and haven't the change left over to repaint
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The clock is ticking !
Countdown to Apr 1, 2012 12:00:01 AM in UTC
A couple of secret videos
Prerecorded for release on April 1st;
A couple of secret videos
Prerecorded for release on April 1st;
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
RAF Shawbury Families Day today.
RAF Shawbury - Events
Should be a good opportunity for some great photos
View topic - RAF F&F days 2011 (Not open to the public)
RAF Shawbury - Events
Should be a good opportunity for some great photos
Please note that these events are not open to the public
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Just called in to Woodvale on my way to work today, the last flight was this morning. Hope the Champagne Breakfast goes well!! That's another one down, goodbye Police 24....................... 
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
A sad day.
I dunk a digestive in my tea in salute.
From us all;
Godspeed to you all
I dunk a digestive in my tea in salute.
From us all;
Godspeed to you all
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Isn't this being sold with the rhetoric,; 'The new service would provide a more efficient and accessible air support service that offers better value for money.'....Ok!
But what was it the CC told us?
'No change in service'...I see that being challenged in the coming months!
But what was it the CC told us?
"I would like to assure people that, no matter what decisions are made in the future, there will be no loss of air support in Merseyside and communities will see no change in service."
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Something that was said, actually made great sense this morning and I find myself in agreement for the first time in a while. In these days of budget cutting (and I think it WILL get worse), police authorities may find themselves forced into 'easy' savings and bin their helicopter. A National Service takes that capability away from them, leaving a smaller but more stable capability.
Better smaller than nothing..........................
Better smaller than nothing..........................
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My worry is where all this will lead to ........
The issue is more to do with NPAS stating ( and trying to "sell" the notion ) that a smaller fleet
of Nationally controlled aircraft WILL be better, as in "more efficient and saving costs".
Popular belief ( here ) seems to be that this won't happen, and the service will be less efficient (worse)
with the likelihood of not saving any money at all, or even costing more.
The question of whether a "worse" service is better than NO service is a different issue,
but looking into my Coconutty-Crystal ball a few years ahead ........
Once the effects of the worsened service have reduced effectiveness to the extent that the service is totally worthless,
the whole fleet could easily get binned, leaving no service at all.
THEN there will be savings in the Air Support budget,
at the cost of all the tasks carried out at present just not getting done at all.
The issue is more to do with NPAS stating ( and trying to "sell" the notion ) that a smaller fleet
of Nationally controlled aircraft WILL be better, as in "more efficient and saving costs".
Popular belief ( here ) seems to be that this won't happen, and the service will be less efficient (worse)
with the likelihood of not saving any money at all, or even costing more.
The question of whether a "worse" service is better than NO service is a different issue,
but looking into my Coconutty-Crystal ball a few years ahead ........
Once the effects of the worsened service have reduced effectiveness to the extent that the service is totally worthless,
the whole fleet could easily get binned, leaving no service at all.
THEN there will be savings in the Air Support budget,
at the cost of all the tasks carried out at present just not getting done at all.
It's started. Merseyside Air Ops shut down yesterday. The new Northwest Air Operations kicks off at 0700 tomorrow. For the first 3 hours, North Wales will be the sole cover for the area. GMP are on a service. Lancs don't start until 1000, and we don't start until 1100.
We'll see how it goes.
We'll see how it goes.
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Merseyside police loses its own helicopter and air base - Liverpool Local News - News - Liverpool Echo
Glad to see it is still being kept on in case the new system is not effective
Glad to see it is still being kept on in case the new system is not effective
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its gonna end in tears....
Please excuse me if this topic has been mentioned before, but with 85 pages, I may have missed something. I am not an expert in employment law so if someone could clarify I would be most grateful.
IF NPAS, although a new organisation, are effectively taking over the contracts to provide Air Support to existing Police Forces, are they under TUPE/EU tender rules to offer those whose jobs are under risk of redundancy, employment with the new organisation??
If so, where would those jobs be? Would they have to apply for positions elsewhere in the country? Would everyone have to apply for their own positions? Under the above ruling would someone in Merseyside after being made redundant be allowed to apply for a position at GMP? Would there then be a knock on effect at GMP? will there be discrimination over Geography? Would Directly employed pilots get preference under TUPE rules over those who are subcontracted?
In essence are anyones job safe?
With the onset of a new organisation, is it illegal to pick and choose staff without a transparent and fair recruiting process. Will those who believe they are safe as there will be an aircraft (not necessarily their own aircraft) at their base be given preferential treatment? (Hopefully not, as this is illegal)
Is there an address where everyone and I mean everyone, should be posting their CV's?
IF NPAS, although a new organisation, are effectively taking over the contracts to provide Air Support to existing Police Forces, are they under TUPE/EU tender rules to offer those whose jobs are under risk of redundancy, employment with the new organisation??
If so, where would those jobs be? Would they have to apply for positions elsewhere in the country? Would everyone have to apply for their own positions? Under the above ruling would someone in Merseyside after being made redundant be allowed to apply for a position at GMP? Would there then be a knock on effect at GMP? will there be discrimination over Geography? Would Directly employed pilots get preference under TUPE rules over those who are subcontracted?
In essence are anyones job safe?
With the onset of a new organisation, is it illegal to pick and choose staff without a transparent and fair recruiting process. Will those who believe they are safe as there will be an aircraft (not necessarily their own aircraft) at their base be given preferential treatment? (Hopefully not, as this is illegal)
Is there an address where everyone and I mean everyone, should be posting their CV's?
Final Flare,
No, you have not missed anything. It's just another of the minor details that NPAS has yet to decide upon or, if they have decided, have yet to tell anyone. Just another example of the lack of hard information coming from NPAS that's causing rumour, suspicion and a general lowering of morale around the units. NPAS has no leadership, just a bunch of managers with no aviation experience of any sort who will move on once they've enhanced their own careers, got their OBE's and left an unholy mess for someone else to sort out/take the blame for.
No, you have not missed anything. It's just another of the minor details that NPAS has yet to decide upon or, if they have decided, have yet to tell anyone. Just another example of the lack of hard information coming from NPAS that's causing rumour, suspicion and a general lowering of morale around the units. NPAS has no leadership, just a bunch of managers with no aviation experience of any sort who will move on once they've enhanced their own careers, got their OBE's and left an unholy mess for someone else to sort out/take the blame for.