UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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The good news in Norfolk is that despite the police helicopter no longer flying around the county every day life goes on.
The toy has gone and the big bosses at Plod HQ in Wymondham now have to justify bringing a helicopter in to the area.
Missing persons and kids stealing cars are I just getting on with their lives.
I have never seen one of those Border Force/Road Wars/Police type shows where a helicopter ever got a major crime gang to several years in court.
It was alway petty crime with petty rap over the knuckles justice costing a fortune for the big toy in the sky.
The toy has gone and the big bosses at Plod HQ in Wymondham now have to justify bringing a helicopter in to the area.
Missing persons and kids stealing cars are I just getting on with their lives.
I have never seen one of those Border Force/Road Wars/Police type shows where a helicopter ever got a major crime gang to several years in court.
It was alway petty crime with petty rap over the knuckles justice costing a fortune for the big toy in the sky.
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Only one handle?
PAN & JAFO - me likewise (just the one handle) hence previous posts expressing the need for sensible/careful, but appropriately authorititive & informed, anonimity!
Re Cambridgeshire - someone seems to have been sold the NPAS mission statement
and
But how much of that will be spent in transit, & how much on task? 
Digital FD - from what I've been led to believe, engineering planning is likely to become somewhat easier!
Re Cambridgeshire - someone seems to have been sold the NPAS mission statement
. . . will still provide that air support across Cambridgeshire, but make better use of the helicopters already in service in both the Chiltern and Eastern Region . . .
. . .save as much as £0.5 million each year and still get 500 hours flying time.
Digital FD - from what I've been led to believe, engineering planning is likely to become somewhat easier!
". . . will still provide that air support across Cambridgeshire, but make better use of the helicopters already in service in both the Chiltern and Eastern Region . . ."
Would that be the Chiltern Aircraft at Henlow that's also being withdrawn or have I missed something???
Would that be the Chiltern Aircraft at Henlow that's also being withdrawn or have I missed something???
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40 Odd - Take a deep breath before reading . . . No, that would be the Chiltern Unit, with the almost brand-new base, that was getting the chop but, since the Met don't want to join the party (to Police the area within easy reach to the North of them) until sometime after the other party next summer, if ever, would appear to have had a "temporary" stay of exectution! (Need that guillotine emoticon again!) 
Well, Hurrah and Huzzah!! For once , I'm happy to have missed something!
I could, (at a push), understand losing either Cambridge or Henlow but both was too big a gap to expect the Met, Benson, Suffolk and EMids to fill and not reduce the cover elsewhere.....
........After all, isn't it supposed to be about increased efficiency and no less effective???
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
May I re-ask my question from 4 June?
Anyone remember what the plan was?
Something like;
The National Police Air Service will have 23 aircraft at 20 bases.
It is not clear if police forces in Scotland and Northern Ireland plan to follow suit.
British Transport Police will be in charge of the service's command and control structure.
A "shadow service" will begin next year and the full national service will roll out in 2012.
The service, which will also have three spare choppers, will provide 24-hour cover with a 20-minute response time for 97% of the population of England and Wales.
Essex to Southend.
Dorset to Bournemouth.
Norfolk/Suffolk 1 at Honnington.
Sussex and Surrey one aircraft Dunsfold.
3 aircraft for spares. 2x135 and 1xMD902
West Mids aircraft to wolverhampton 2 aircraft for central counties.
Western Counties (Avon, Somerset, Gloucester, Wilts) 1 aircraft based at RAF Colerne.
Merseyside, South Yorks, Cambs, Dyfed-Powys, Henlow aircraft all withdrawn from service.
So far members here have said here;
"Met don't want to join the party."
"Essex unit will no longer be moving to Southend, off to Rochester ?"
"Chiltern Unit, would appear to have had a "temporary" stay of exectution!"
Are BTP still doing central command?
Anyone yet understand what a shadow service is?
At 4am for example, will we really be able to get to 97% of the public within 20 mins?
Does the National Police Air Service officially now not include the Met, Scotland and N.Ireland?
These and many more such questions being unanswered somewhere near you soon!
Which units aren't closing down iaw the initial plan?
Which units are closing down that weren't in the initial plan?
Which units are moving that wasn't in the initial plan?
Which units aren't moving iaw the initial plan?
Which units are closing down that weren't in the initial plan?
Which units are moving that wasn't in the initial plan?
Which units aren't moving iaw the initial plan?
Something like;
The National Police Air Service will have 23 aircraft at 20 bases.
It is not clear if police forces in Scotland and Northern Ireland plan to follow suit.
British Transport Police will be in charge of the service's command and control structure.
A "shadow service" will begin next year and the full national service will roll out in 2012.
The service, which will also have three spare choppers, will provide 24-hour cover with a 20-minute response time for 97% of the population of England and Wales.
Essex to Southend.
Dorset to Bournemouth.
Norfolk/Suffolk 1 at Honnington.
Sussex and Surrey one aircraft Dunsfold.
3 aircraft for spares. 2x135 and 1xMD902
West Mids aircraft to wolverhampton 2 aircraft for central counties.
Western Counties (Avon, Somerset, Gloucester, Wilts) 1 aircraft based at RAF Colerne.
Merseyside, South Yorks, Cambs, Dyfed-Powys, Henlow aircraft all withdrawn from service.
So far members here have said here;
"Met don't want to join the party."
"Essex unit will no longer be moving to Southend, off to Rochester ?"
"Chiltern Unit, would appear to have had a "temporary" stay of exectution!"
Are BTP still doing central command?
Anyone yet understand what a shadow service is?
At 4am for example, will we really be able to get to 97% of the public within 20 mins?
Does the National Police Air Service officially now not include the Met, Scotland and N.Ireland?
These and many more such questions being unanswered somewhere near you soon!
Moving the Essex aircraft to Rochester makes perfect sense. That way, Kent get to keep the helicopter they never had (except in their imagination), and it'll probably be a SPIFR machine based on top of a hill at an airfield with only an NDB as a navaid. (But no procedure.)
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It's sure nice to fly the SPFIR machines but without any sort of instrument qualification it wouldn't matter what aids are available at Rochester, a real 'achilies heel' to roaming multiple large counties on limited fuel at night. About time this little 'industry' of ours matured and got serious about pilot qualifications rather than the sticking plaster reactive approach to disasters that we've suffered for too many years.
We've been told the grand plan, at least equip us with the right training and qualifications to attempt it safely. Without them the only way is to play it safe and turn down tasking if it's at all doubtful that we can reasonably get back to base safely VFR before the end of the shift. I'm not sure there'd be a plan 'B' when aircraft aren't where they're supposed to be when the early turn arrive!
We've been told the grand plan, at least equip us with the right training and qualifications to attempt it safely. Without them the only way is to play it safe and turn down tasking if it's at all doubtful that we can reasonably get back to base safely VFR before the end of the shift. I'm not sure there'd be a plan 'B' when aircraft aren't where they're supposed to be when the early turn arrive!
Has it changed?
This story about the Essex Aircraft to Rochester seems to have no basis in hard copy print.
Nearly everything talked through on Pprune seems to be suffering from the same problem.
The potential for South Yorkshire to retain their aircraft is in the same mould.
The reason I say this is that most recent report by CC Hampshire Alex Marshall, ACPO lead on air support, to his Police Authority ['The Marshall Plan'] seems to state categorically that the plan in June 2011 is near enough identical to the October 2010 plan.
Until that can be explained [like he wrote it 6 months ago but forgot to publish it] we seem to have an impasse.
Nearly everything talked through on Pprune seems to be suffering from the same problem.
The potential for South Yorkshire to retain their aircraft is in the same mould.
The reason I say this is that most recent report by CC Hampshire Alex Marshall, ACPO lead on air support, to his Police Authority ['The Marshall Plan'] seems to state categorically that the plan in June 2011 is near enough identical to the October 2010 plan.
Until that can be explained [like he wrote it 6 months ago but forgot to publish it] we seem to have an impasse.
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Droopy,
I hear what you're saying, some minor HR contract details would take care of retention as they already do for any other training. I work directly employed and it's already in my contract that I would need to repay pro-rata costs for training that gave me a marketable qualification if I leave early (CRMI/type ratings/TRE/TRI etc). I tend to think we're a fairly settled bunch and given that pay and conditions are as fair as they can be in this job and there aren't any other jobs for 50+ pilots now or in the next few years, there wouldn't be a rush to the exit just because of the IR.
Just my opinion, I love the job and the people in it, just get frustrated that for a moderate investment we can safely cover some very important foreseeable situations.
PAN
I think if I were in charge I'd think things are going 'pretty much' to plan, a few minor tweeks to individual units here and there, some putting up good reasons to stay, some already getting in line and making friends with long standing neighbours before the start date. Of course i'm not in charge and wouldn't want to be!
I hear what you're saying, some minor HR contract details would take care of retention as they already do for any other training. I work directly employed and it's already in my contract that I would need to repay pro-rata costs for training that gave me a marketable qualification if I leave early (CRMI/type ratings/TRE/TRI etc). I tend to think we're a fairly settled bunch and given that pay and conditions are as fair as they can be in this job and there aren't any other jobs for 50+ pilots now or in the next few years, there wouldn't be a rush to the exit just because of the IR.
Just my opinion, I love the job and the people in it, just get frustrated that for a moderate investment we can safely cover some very important foreseeable situations.
PAN
I think if I were in charge I'd think things are going 'pretty much' to plan, a few minor tweeks to individual units here and there, some putting up good reasons to stay, some already getting in line and making friends with long standing neighbours before the start date. Of course i'm not in charge and wouldn't want to be!
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I just had another read of the document published by West Midlands Police Authority ( see post #1472 on 16/5/11 ),
where it discusses commencing a Central Region ASU during June 2011,
and interestingly - as one of the forces also listed to move bases in the original NPAS plan, there is no mention of this.
Is it in the Public domain yet, as to whether they are going to move or not ?
Also interesting that this "Shadow Service" will :
... so not ( yet ) fulfilling the objectives of a more efficient and less costly service, although :
So "some" savings to be made, but no mention of the increased efficiency 
Hey Ho - Tomorrow's another day - so is the one after
where it discusses commencing a Central Region ASU during June 2011,
and interestingly - as one of the forces also listed to move bases in the original NPAS plan, there is no mention of this.
Is it in the Public domain yet, as to whether they are going to move or not ?
Also interesting that this "Shadow Service" will :
... provide insight into the operation of the future service but at no extra cost.
It is anticipated that the creation of the Shared Services will create savings to this budget through shared procurement and better tasking arrangements.
Hey Ho - Tomorrow's another day - so is the one after
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PAM, Idle, Silsoe & others - I think you'll find that the Essex > Rochester post was a wind-up to enliven this thread. An even shorter pilot wouldn't be able to reach the pedals! 
.
Art has a good point re IRs but, unless aircraft are based at appropriately equipped bases, they wouldn't be able to get home, whether pilots were rated or not. You'd probably need even more base moves than have so far been proposed.
.Art has a good point re IRs but, unless aircraft are based at appropriately equipped bases, they wouldn't be able to get home, whether pilots were rated or not. You'd probably need even more base moves than have so far been proposed.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Instrument ratings, NVG, training, blimey that lot costs money, they don't save it !
While those that operate around us have Instrument Ratings as a rule, yet only operate during daylight hours; and others have NVGs, but don't operate 24 hrs; it will only take a serious incident for anything to be officially said about it, let alone any action taken!
Perhaps we are starting a slippery slope that needs a bit of grit before this incident takes place!
While those that operate around us have Instrument Ratings as a rule, yet only operate during daylight hours; and others have NVGs, but don't operate 24 hrs; it will only take a serious incident for anything to be officially said about it, let alone any action taken!
Perhaps we are starting a slippery slope that needs a bit of grit before this incident takes place!
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Police helicopter called to help in hunt for flasher in Norwich - News - Eastern Daily Press
This aircraft is no longer based at Norwich, I think it's based in Cambridge or Essex now, since the demise of Sterling.
A valuable use of tax-payers money in the current climate?
This aircraft is no longer based at Norwich, I think it's based in Cambridge or Essex now, since the demise of Sterling.
A valuable use of tax-payers money in the current climate?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
A valuable use of tax-payers money in the current climate?
What if it was your house/car/property/family that was attacked/burgled or otherwise interfered with by a criminal !
Would you dial 999 and say, "Please come and investigate and have a go catching the criminal and returning my property... but don't use the helicopter with all its technology that could efficiently catch the criminal that has entered the everyday life of my family !
I don't think so.
In answer to the flasher link;
Would you think the same if it was your daughter/wife/girlfriend/son that was flashed at, knowing that this person was still out there likely to easily hide from officers and get away, perhaps doing something worse the next time he is out!
I don't think so !
Freedom has a price
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The shadow service....revealed !
When the phone rings,
Who knows what it brings.
Will it be your force area,
or somewhere scarier ?
Without the right kit,
You could be right in the spit.
But worry no longer,
You'll be saving loads of wonga !
When the phone rings,
Who knows what it brings.
Will it be your force area,
or somewhere scarier ?
Without the right kit,
You could be right in the spit.
But worry no longer,
You'll be saving loads of wonga !
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So if Police helicopters cost £1,000,000 per hour to operate, then it would still be a justified expenditure?
I'm not saying they don't do good work, and in an ideal world, there would be more. But the reality is they cost an awful lot to operate and I imagine that money would be more effective in going towards other more cost-efficient iniatives, maybe ones that prevent crime, as oppose to chasing car thieves across fields just for them to get a 6 month sentence and do it all over again. ie we need to address the cause of crime.
Just look at the USA, they have -tons- of police helicopters, every county, state, region etc has one, and they have crime levels way in excess of the UK. Often these machines are just "toys for boys" and regional police chiefs deciding they want one to make their region/county seem more important.
I'm not saying they don't do good work, and in an ideal world, there would be more. But the reality is they cost an awful lot to operate and I imagine that money would be more effective in going towards other more cost-efficient iniatives, maybe ones that prevent crime, as oppose to chasing car thieves across fields just for them to get a 6 month sentence and do it all over again. ie we need to address the cause of crime.
Just look at the USA, they have -tons- of police helicopters, every county, state, region etc has one, and they have crime levels way in excess of the UK. Often these machines are just "toys for boys" and regional police chiefs deciding they want one to make their region/county seem more important.
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Don't treat everthing you read in the media as the gospel truth. It could be that the helicopter did not deploy specifically to that task but was already airborne and was able to assist ground patrols with a search. As the article suggests this was not the first occurrence of its type in that area, which means there's probably a repeat offender who clearly needs to be caught.
We should all be grateful that we have the airborne resources to deal with crimes of all types, but temper that with the knowledge that come the revolution our effectiveness will decrease as transit times do the reverse.
We should all be grateful that we have the airborne resources to deal with crimes of all types, but temper that with the knowledge that come the revolution our effectiveness will decrease as transit times do the reverse.
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Hands on, you show an extraordinary ignorance on the subject that you pass judgment on. The helicopter serving the good people of Norfolk comes from Suffolk, and is funded out of current expenditure in a joined up approach to air support. And the operational costs that you suppose could be the case is hilarious in its obtuseness. The amount of money saved by a 20 min flight discounting areas that would otherwise have to be searched by police officers on the ground, is enormous and it leaves all those officers available for other crime detection and prevention. As far as the sentencing of offenders is concerned, you should wag your finger and poke your stick in the direction of the CPS.
(TOP TIP = know something of what you are talking about)
(TOP TIP = know something of what you are talking about)