UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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123...
There's more to these things than the press put out, that particular incident is still on going so no more to say other than DFD is spot on. Those that do this day and night will tell you that 'flashers' get away with it for a while, then they need something more, thats when it can get really nasty! The helicopter was the ONLY asset that could visually contain that area whilst officers searched. Tell you what, lets advise the fire brigade not to attend a small fire with an expensive tender, just pop round in the station car with a hand held, then you'd complain that expensive tenders were rarely being used so why not get rid of them.......then there's a big fire
There's more to these things than the press put out, that particular incident is still on going so no more to say other than DFD is spot on. Those that do this day and night will tell you that 'flashers' get away with it for a while, then they need something more, thats when it can get really nasty! The helicopter was the ONLY asset that could visually contain that area whilst officers searched. Tell you what, lets advise the fire brigade not to attend a small fire with an expensive tender, just pop round in the station car with a hand held, then you'd complain that expensive tenders were rarely being used so why not get rid of them.......then there's a big fire
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123,
used wisely, police helicopters have an important role in crime prevention too. It is often forgotten, but they change criminal behaviour in all sorts of ways. There are lots of examples where the scrotes changed their behaviour when helicopters have been introduced, or changed their deployment to focus on certain criminal activity.
If the NPAS proposals see the light of day as declared, I suspect we will see some criminal behaviour changing back to what it used to be before a rapid airborne response became likely. Because response times in some places will be much longer, the crims may change their behaviour and be much more relaxed about what they are doing.
Whether or not those changes will be reported is another matter.
The actions of the "recipients" of the air support service demonstrate its power, by repeatedly trying to destroy it, as criminals have over the last few years. They would not bother to do that, if they did not think it was effective in helping to catch them and/or prevent them engaging in their business.
used wisely, police helicopters have an important role in crime prevention too. It is often forgotten, but they change criminal behaviour in all sorts of ways. There are lots of examples where the scrotes changed their behaviour when helicopters have been introduced, or changed their deployment to focus on certain criminal activity.
If the NPAS proposals see the light of day as declared, I suspect we will see some criminal behaviour changing back to what it used to be before a rapid airborne response became likely. Because response times in some places will be much longer, the crims may change their behaviour and be much more relaxed about what they are doing.
Whether or not those changes will be reported is another matter.
The actions of the "recipients" of the air support service demonstrate its power, by repeatedly trying to destroy it, as criminals have over the last few years. They would not bother to do that, if they did not think it was effective in helping to catch them and/or prevent them engaging in their business.
Last edited by Helinut; 3rd Jul 2011 at 12:44. Reason: To add last paragraph
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Rumour has it that Dyfed Powys are now keeping their helicopter for about 18 month and that it will then be replaced by a fixed wing?
....and the rats are starting to leave the NPIA sinking ship before they dispand at the end of the year, NT will be the only one left soon!
....and the rats are starting to leave the NPIA sinking ship before they dispand at the end of the year, NT will be the only one left soon!
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Rats & Sinking ships eh ?
What analogy will describe the Police Authorities - who are currently being persuaded to "trial" regional "shadow services" in preparation for a National scheme,
and have agreed to do so to assess the potential cost savings and increased efficiency,
when the Police Authorites are disbanded in the Government's other plan to introduce elected Police Commissioners ?
Who will take up the cause to protect the exisiting services then ???
What analogy will describe the Police Authorities - who are currently being persuaded to "trial" regional "shadow services" in preparation for a National scheme,
and have agreed to do so to assess the potential cost savings and increased efficiency,
when the Police Authorites are disbanded in the Government's other plan to introduce elected Police Commissioners ?
Who will take up the cause to protect the exisiting services then ???
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That's debatable, I think this is just the same syndrome as fire engines engines/EMS helicopters etc being attacked. ie they represent "the state"
The actions of the "recipients" of the air support service demonstrate its power, by repeatedly trying to destroy it, as criminals have over the last few years. They would not bother to do that, if they did not think it was effective in helping to catch them and/or prevent them engaging in their business.
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hands_on123, admit it - you're the Chief Constable of Hampshire aren't you? 
That's debatable, I think this is just the same syndrome as fire engines engines/EMS helicopters etc being attacked. ie they represent "the state"
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Twitter : @WMP_Helicopter
You may well ask what we were doing in Redditch? Start of CRASU today - Central Region Air Support Unit - 4 ASU's covering Midlands area!!
As part of an effeciency and cost saving initiative 8 Midlands forces are combining their air support responses by operating a nearest to task system. The forces involved are: West Midlands, West Mercia, Staffs, Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire, Northamptonshire and Nottinghamshire. Its early days and there will be some tweaking to be done. The aim is to improve our service.
As part of an effeciency and cost saving initiative 8 Midlands forces are combining their air support responses by operating a nearest to task system. The forces involved are: West Midlands, West Mercia, Staffs, Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire, Northamptonshire and Nottinghamshire. Its early days and there will be some tweaking to be done. The aim is to improve our service.
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I would be surprised if that one didnt work!
They will have the same number of A/C covering the same area.
They will have the same number of A/C covering the same area.
Ahah!
Minute one of day one.....Any of those spare aircraft available yet?
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Just released by Helitech on Twitter.....
Hampshire Constabulary's Chief Constable Alex Marshall (Lead on National Police Air Support) to give conference keynote speech on 29 Sept
....and I believe there is more in the pipeline
Hampshire Constabulary's Chief Constable Alex Marshall (Lead on National Police Air Support) to give conference keynote speech on 29 Sept
....and I believe there is more in the pipeline
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
An interesting link aeromys.
Will this £4mill pot of money be released to the forces involved with the present shadow services, to pay for the hours they are now flying that they wouldn't normally be? Where is it being held and at what interest rate?
I wonder if there is a 'National coverage map' showing which areas have 24hr coverage within the 15/20 minutes. Lets not forget that in reality any circles on maps can only be based on the location of the aircraft at any given time and not the location of the bases themselves.
I hope crews will be able to claim for meals missed due to being stuck elsewhere at mealtimes iaw para 7.7.
Anyone else notice according to the 'What will NPAS mean for Hampshire', Appendix A , that Hampshire are due to get 2 new aircraft in the next year or so? They will pay £390,000 less for air support than current and, looking at their 'circles', will have 3 aircraft available to them! Not bad for a force that has never had a helicopter before.
Whats the story behind a large consortium starting up the very same month that the national plan was going to be announced?
Can't wait for the next installment of 'What will NPAS mean for ... insert your county here'
Getting more for less, we are all equal, but are some of us more equal than the others? ....
Will this £4mill pot of money be released to the forces involved with the present shadow services, to pay for the hours they are now flying that they wouldn't normally be? Where is it being held and at what interest rate?
I wonder if there is a 'National coverage map' showing which areas have 24hr coverage within the 15/20 minutes. Lets not forget that in reality any circles on maps can only be based on the location of the aircraft at any given time and not the location of the bases themselves.
I hope crews will be able to claim for meals missed due to being stuck elsewhere at mealtimes iaw para 7.7.
Anyone else notice according to the 'What will NPAS mean for Hampshire', Appendix A , that Hampshire are due to get 2 new aircraft in the next year or so? They will pay £390,000 less for air support than current and, looking at their 'circles', will have 3 aircraft available to them! Not bad for a force that has never had a helicopter before.
Whats the story behind a large consortium starting up the very same month that the national plan was going to be announced?
Can't wait for the next installment of 'What will NPAS mean for ... insert your county here'
Getting more for less, we are all equal, but are some of us more equal than the others? ....
Had anyone noticed that the NPAS map includes a fixed wing in Dyfed-Powys?
This was not in the original plan but was leaked via the DPPA and local media - although it seemed at the time to be little more than a sop this suggests it is 'real'.
This was not in the original plan but was leaked via the DPPA and local media - although it seemed at the time to be little more than a sop this suggests it is 'real'.
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Its a shame that at Appendix A it doesn't mention how much it will cost to set up the new base at Bournemouth Airport, the agreed fuel price or negotiated landing fee agreement.
Never seen so many notes under a financial table before, however I particularly liked note 5 that tell us that an aircrafts life is 10 years, followed by note 7 that tells us that one of the ac is already over 10 years old (the other to follow shortly)
Suffice to say then, that any future purchases will be 135's in keeping with para 5.7 of the report;
"Over time, it is anticipated that further savings may be achieved through improved technology, a move to a single-type helicopter fleet (reducing maintenance and training costs)"
Are we allowed to do that?
Never seen so many notes under a financial table before, however I particularly liked note 5 that tell us that an aircrafts life is 10 years, followed by note 7 that tells us that one of the ac is already over 10 years old (the other to follow shortly)
Suffice to say then, that any future purchases will be 135's in keeping with para 5.7 of the report;
"Over time, it is anticipated that further savings may be achieved through improved technology, a move to a single-type helicopter fleet (reducing maintenance and training costs)"
Are we allowed to do that?
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hands_on123=Hants CC?
hands_on123 is shown as having joined PPrune in 2004 and therefore could not possibly be The Chief Constable of Hampshire, who certainly has not had interest in Air Ops for that long!
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I don't suppose one could blame the CC of Hampshire for the nepotism demonstrated when organising coverage for his county in comparison to, lets say the east of England. Not so National when it comes to divvying up the assets then.
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I hope crews will be able to claim for meals missed due to being stuck elsewhere at mealtimes iaw para 7.7.
Once dispatched, responsibility for tasking the aircraft will rest with the local force. Subject to demand, the aircraft may be re-deployed within the force area without returning to its home base.
One advantage of removing control of the aircraft from the individual forces will be the introduction of a "Dross" filter*. i.e "While you're up can you just do this" or having someone on the ground who thinks the job they are involved with is the job of the century, demanding the attendance of Air Support despite the opinion of the crew being that Air Support isn't appropriate.
* Rigorous enforcement of the Deployment Criteria mentioned in para. 7.6 should hopefully achieve the same result.
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Interesting read Aero.
4mill looks like it is already spent or earmarked for new bases, refit of a withdrawn helicopter( liverpools?) and perhaps fund an extra fixed wind for Dyfed-Powys.
Some sort of loose regional service post April 2012-2015 followed by a more formal arrangement 2015-2018 and if I have read it correctly it wont be a full National Air Support until 2018 onwards.
A single Helicopter fleet? I don't see the Explorer on that list, no R&D at MDHI and that might account for the Camb and Sheffield etc for the chop now, it only leaves 6 or 7 902's for them to phase out by 2018. What next, one BIG helicopter that would cover Police, Air Ambo, Fire and SAR.
Still no mention of how it is going to be maintained or flown, at least NPIA have taken on a specialist HR guru to tell the troops "your fired".
4mill looks like it is already spent or earmarked for new bases, refit of a withdrawn helicopter( liverpools?) and perhaps fund an extra fixed wind for Dyfed-Powys.
Some sort of loose regional service post April 2012-2015 followed by a more formal arrangement 2015-2018 and if I have read it correctly it wont be a full National Air Support until 2018 onwards.
A single Helicopter fleet? I don't see the Explorer on that list, no R&D at MDHI and that might account for the Camb and Sheffield etc for the chop now, it only leaves 6 or 7 902's for them to phase out by 2018. What next, one BIG helicopter that would cover Police, Air Ambo, Fire and SAR.
Still no mention of how it is going to be maintained or flown, at least NPIA have taken on a specialist HR guru to tell the troops "your fired".
The problem with "Specialist HR Gurus" is that, whilst knowing huge amounts about HR rules & regs, employment law, etc, they know absolutely naff all about what their employer actually specialises in.
What NPAS actually needs is a "Specialist Aviation HR Guru" - someone who actually knows what an FTL is etc.
I'm slightly happier now that they are about to employ a pilot - 9 months in and they've finally employed someone who knows what he's talking about.
We should be grateful.
Yes, I am a grumbly old git and I only said "Naff" as I'm feeling extra polite!
What NPAS actually needs is a "Specialist Aviation HR Guru" - someone who actually knows what an FTL is etc.
I'm slightly happier now that they are about to employ a pilot - 9 months in and they've finally employed someone who knows what he's talking about.
We should be grateful.Yes, I am a grumbly old git and I only said "Naff" as I'm feeling extra polite!