ATPL/CPL Training: Ground School topics
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Frequent question this on the forum. Use the search facility and look for "CPL(H)" and I'm sure you'll find some info.
I'm a bit ahead of you - had my PPL(H) a year now but still only done 85hrs. I'm hour building VERY VERY slowly obviously.
I've done a rating for an R44 so i can take more pax up, but I'd still advise you to stick with the pistons for now.
Its going to cost you a fortune for your CPL(H) as it is, without paying for turbine time on the way. Although I'm not saying you shouldn't have a 'play' if the mood takes you!
Whirlybird is a long way ahead of both of us, and no doubt'll she'll comment as soon as she has her next "tea-break" (good job you work for yourself Whirly )
I'm a bit ahead of you - had my PPL(H) a year now but still only done 85hrs. I'm hour building VERY VERY slowly obviously.
I've done a rating for an R44 so i can take more pax up, but I'd still advise you to stick with the pistons for now.
Its going to cost you a fortune for your CPL(H) as it is, without paying for turbine time on the way. Although I'm not saying you shouldn't have a 'play' if the mood takes you!
Whirlybird is a long way ahead of both of us, and no doubt'll she'll comment as soon as she has her next "tea-break" (good job you work for yourself Whirly
)
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Hi Fionnan,
I am also a PPL(H) with about 120hrs so far......(Blackpool too Rotorhorn).
I have cut back on my flying time and worrying about ratings etc just now, due to concentrating on getting the ATPL's out of the way. I'm booked in for the first 8 this october with refresher course obviously in September.
When the ATPL's are out of the way, then I will revert back to flying most days until I have the required hours (and feel ready) to take my CPL(H) skills test.
Once the CPL is eventually under my belt, then I will look to scrounging/saving/borrowing some more money to do a turbine conversion.
My main point is, if you are going to turn heli's into a career, then get the ATPL's done first, no point in having spent lots of money on conversions and courses if you cant pass the writtens.
Finally, after everything is completed, if the career situation is the same as it is now, then I wont just be looking at trying to find a job in the uk (or close proximity
), I've already prepared my family that I will probably have to head abroad and do the less paid, less glamorous jobs, that hopefully no one else wants to do, apart from me ...........unless I get my lucky break that is 
.
Anyway Fionnan, sorry if the above comes across as sounding arrogant because it is by no means meant to.
Hope my little bit of advice will help.
Good luck and hope everything goes well for you.
PS. The ATPL's are just as much fun as flying
I am also a PPL(H) with about 120hrs so far......(Blackpool too Rotorhorn).
I have cut back on my flying time and worrying about ratings etc just now, due to concentrating on getting the ATPL's out of the way. I'm booked in for the first 8 this october with refresher course obviously in September.
When the ATPL's are out of the way, then I will revert back to flying most days until I have the required hours (and feel ready) to take my CPL(H) skills test.
Once the CPL is eventually under my belt, then I will look to scrounging/saving/borrowing some more money to do a turbine conversion.
My main point is, if you are going to turn heli's into a career, then get the ATPL's done first, no point in having spent lots of money on conversions and courses if you cant pass the writtens.
Finally, after everything is completed, if the career situation is the same as it is now, then I wont just be looking at trying to find a job in the uk (or close proximity
), I've already prepared my family that I will probably have to head abroad and do the less paid, less glamorous jobs, that hopefully no one else wants to do, apart from me ...........unless I get my lucky break that is .Anyway Fionnan, sorry if the above comes across as sounding arrogant because it is by no means meant to.
Hope my little bit of advice will help.
Good luck and hope everything goes well for you.
PS. The ATPL's are just as much fun as flying
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Hi Fionnan,
nice to see I'm not the only Irishman on the planet stuggling to get a CPL. Drop me an email if you want to get in contact and we can chew the cud a little!
Irlandés
nice to see I'm not the only Irishman on the planet stuggling to get a CPL. Drop me an email if you want to get in contact and we can chew the cud a little!
Irlandés
The Original Whirly
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Whirly's been away for the weekend, so not posting for a change.
I don't know what's best; I wish I did. It's definitely a good idea to do the ground exams earlier rather than later. Apart from that, I'm not sure it's worth doing a turbine conversion at least until after you've done the CPl course. And since there doesn't seem to be much/any work for low hours CPLs right now anyway, perhaps it makes more sense to do everything on the R22, or do most of your hour building in the US or Oz or SA where it's cheaper. As far as I can gather, now the North Sea aren't recruiting, you're unlikely to be able to pay for enough hours for anyone to give you a job, and instructing seems to have the only openings. And you're likely to instruct on R22s, so it makes sense to get your hours on them. But I don't really know to be honest, and I'm not aure anyone else does either.
I don't know what's best; I wish I did. It's definitely a good idea to do the ground exams earlier rather than later. Apart from that, I'm not sure it's worth doing a turbine conversion at least until after you've done the CPl course. And since there doesn't seem to be much/any work for low hours CPLs right now anyway, perhaps it makes more sense to do everything on the R22, or do most of your hour building in the US or Oz or SA where it's cheaper. As far as I can gather, now the North Sea aren't recruiting, you're unlikely to be able to pay for enough hours for anyone to give you a job, and instructing seems to have the only openings. And you're likely to instruct on R22s, so it makes sense to get your hours on them. But I don't really know to be honest, and I'm not aure anyone else does either.
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Fionnan,
I've just completed the JAR ATPL / CPL(H) on a full-time course in Florida. I believe you only need to do the ATPL level exams if you want to fly larger (> 9 PAX eg North Sea) helicopters, otherwise CPL exams are enough if light charter is your end goal. If you are doing the ATPLs in the UK you will probably find yourself doing the fixed wing subjects and adding helicopter POF afterwards. No problem if you love all things aviation but there's an awful lot of stuff on FMS, INS and 737 systems that is not particularly relevent to helicopters. Before doing anything for the CPL, make sure you can get a Class 1 medical (initial must be at Gatwick for a CAA issued license).
The British Helicopter Advisory Board has some useful info on the industry. http://www.bhab.demon.co.uk/
If money is the main factor, the cheapest route to a paid job is probably to become an FAA instructor and teach in the U.S. on a J1 visa (because you now need 300hrs before you can do the JAA FI course). The conversion from a JAR CPL to an FAA CPL is not a big deal and would take about 2 weeks ground study and 5-6 hrs of flying, the FAA FI course lasts about 2-3 months and you'll need about 200hrs total time before flight schools in the U.S. will take you on. Pay range is about $15 - $40 an hour. 1000hrs seems to be the magic number to start looking for other work although I know instructors with 2000hrs who are struggling to get their first position at the moment. Instructors at busy schools such as HAI, Florida or Quantum, Dallas can get 800hrs + a year.
Feel free to mail me if you have any questions about the ATPL exams.
Good luck
I've just completed the JAR ATPL / CPL(H) on a full-time course in Florida. I believe you only need to do the ATPL level exams if you want to fly larger (> 9 PAX eg North Sea) helicopters, otherwise CPL exams are enough if light charter is your end goal. If you are doing the ATPLs in the UK you will probably find yourself doing the fixed wing subjects and adding helicopter POF afterwards. No problem if you love all things aviation but there's an awful lot of stuff on FMS, INS and 737 systems that is not particularly relevent to helicopters. Before doing anything for the CPL, make sure you can get a Class 1 medical (initial must be at Gatwick for a CAA issued license).
The British Helicopter Advisory Board has some useful info on the industry. http://www.bhab.demon.co.uk/
If money is the main factor, the cheapest route to a paid job is probably to become an FAA instructor and teach in the U.S. on a J1 visa (because you now need 300hrs before you can do the JAA FI course). The conversion from a JAR CPL to an FAA CPL is not a big deal and would take about 2 weeks ground study and 5-6 hrs of flying, the FAA FI course lasts about 2-3 months and you'll need about 200hrs total time before flight schools in the U.S. will take you on. Pay range is about $15 - $40 an hour. 1000hrs seems to be the magic number to start looking for other work although I know instructors with 2000hrs who are struggling to get their first position at the moment. Instructors at busy schools such as HAI, Florida or Quantum, Dallas can get 800hrs + a year.
Feel free to mail me if you have any questions about the ATPL exams.
Good luck
Last edited by buttline; 14th Jul 2002 at 17:48.
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I'm always amused by guys like Aultguish who say things like, "...I've already prepared my family that I will probably have to head abroad and do the less paid, less glamorous jobs, that hopefully no one else wants to do, apart from me." First question: Do people believe that there really are such jobs out there?
...And by "heading abroad" you presumably mean to the U.S.? Or perhaps down here to Oz to do cattle mustering? Do you mean that since there isn't a market for your particular less-than-adequate experience in your own country, you'll head to another country to dilute their own pilot pool and scarf a job that might go to a more experienced pilot for more money? How noble of you! Come on down!
First, let us allow that even the lowest-rung helicopter jobs are PIC positions which require PIC qualifications. Oh, we might like to think that there are power-line patrol or traffic-watch or some other such type of job out there that nobody else wants to do so therefore you could slide right in. Sorry, Charlie. It doesn't work that way.
Those particular jobs are not open to pilots with a fresh CPL(H), and there are already plenty of applicants for them, mostly from guys who don't qualify under the insurance but would gladly "fly for free" just for the flight time. Even the Bell 47s that are hopping rides at state fairs are usually run by an owner/pilot. If he has to hire a relief or extra pilot, he's going to look for someone with more than a wet-ink license.
Admittedly, the first 1,000 hours are the hardest. If you get to that point, you're marketable (in the U.S.)
So...short of going in the military, how does a civilian-trained pilot get enough hours to get a job without spending a lifetime doing it? Easy: Instruct. Get your CPL(H), then your CFI. Then get a directory and find every helicopter flight school in the book; send them a resume or give them a call. Flight school owners know how "fluid" the CFI workforce is. (In other words, they know that their current instructors are probably not long for this world, and the get a feel for who's about to jump ship.) You'd be surprised at what kind of info or opportunity you might get from a phone call.
It's a tough industry to work in, and the road to "success" will be long and hard. But don't give up! It's worth it. The pay/benefits may be lousy to start, but it gets way better as you gain experience and flight time, believe you me. Why, in the U.S. alone there are guys who've been in this business for thirty years and are making HUGE amounts of money...and I mean, like, US$48,000/year! Oh. Sorry. Didn't mean to mention money. Ninety-nine percent of the pilots on this site would gladly forego their entire salary just to get to play with the sticks on a full-time basis. ...Which is I guess what makes this such a great career.
Have fun!
...And by "heading abroad" you presumably mean to the U.S.? Or perhaps down here to Oz to do cattle mustering? Do you mean that since there isn't a market for your particular less-than-adequate experience in your own country, you'll head to another country to dilute their own pilot pool and scarf a job that might go to a more experienced pilot for more money? How noble of you! Come on down!
First, let us allow that even the lowest-rung helicopter jobs are PIC positions which require PIC qualifications. Oh, we might like to think that there are power-line patrol or traffic-watch or some other such type of job out there that nobody else wants to do so therefore you could slide right in. Sorry, Charlie. It doesn't work that way.
Those particular jobs are not open to pilots with a fresh CPL(H), and there are already plenty of applicants for them, mostly from guys who don't qualify under the insurance but would gladly "fly for free" just for the flight time. Even the Bell 47s that are hopping rides at state fairs are usually run by an owner/pilot. If he has to hire a relief or extra pilot, he's going to look for someone with more than a wet-ink license.
Admittedly, the first 1,000 hours are the hardest. If you get to that point, you're marketable (in the U.S.)
So...short of going in the military, how does a civilian-trained pilot get enough hours to get a job without spending a lifetime doing it? Easy: Instruct. Get your CPL(H), then your CFI. Then get a directory and find every helicopter flight school in the book; send them a resume or give them a call. Flight school owners know how "fluid" the CFI workforce is. (In other words, they know that their current instructors are probably not long for this world, and the get a feel for who's about to jump ship.) You'd be surprised at what kind of info or opportunity you might get from a phone call.
It's a tough industry to work in, and the road to "success" will be long and hard. But don't give up! It's worth it. The pay/benefits may be lousy to start, but it gets way better as you gain experience and flight time, believe you me. Why, in the U.S. alone there are guys who've been in this business for thirty years and are making HUGE amounts of money...and I mean, like, US$48,000/year! Oh. Sorry. Didn't mean to mention money. Ninety-nine percent of the pilots on this site would gladly forego their entire salary just to get to play with the sticks on a full-time basis. ...Which is I guess what makes this such a great career.
Have fun!
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Fionan,
Lest Flaredammit's somewhat hostile view puts you off, many other very experienced pilots expressed the opposite view on a recent thread.... Looks to me like he lost the fight with the big boys and now wants to take a pop at the new kids! :-)
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=58285
But Flare is right to some extent. A new CPL is practically worthless for employment... Unless you can afford to get to at least 200hrs and think you'll enjoy instructing for at least a year or two, the options are thin if money is tight... To succeed in an aviation career seems to take an almost fanatical commitment that you don't see in most other vocations.
Even if you decide to just continue flying for fun, it's still good to have a goal and you'll undoutedly improve your skills on a CPL course. Check out the Private Flying forum also for an alternative perspective on flying without being paid..
Lest Flaredammit's somewhat hostile view puts you off, many other very experienced pilots expressed the opposite view on a recent thread.... Looks to me like he lost the fight with the big boys and now wants to take a pop at the new kids! :-)
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=58285
But Flare is right to some extent. A new CPL is practically worthless for employment... Unless you can afford to get to at least 200hrs and think you'll enjoy instructing for at least a year or two, the options are thin if money is tight... To succeed in an aviation career seems to take an almost fanatical commitment that you don't see in most other vocations.
Even if you decide to just continue flying for fun, it's still good to have a goal and you'll undoutedly improve your skills on a CPL course. Check out the Private Flying forum also for an alternative perspective on flying without being paid..
Last edited by buttline; 15th Jul 2002 at 02:21.
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Buttwipe wrote:
Lost the fight? Grow up. What are you, in junior high school? There was no "fight."
Yes, thank you for agreeing with me. I feel so much better now.
What I don't like is how people coming into this business get smoke blown up their arses by people *in* the business. Flight schools, yes, but experienced pilots too. Like...how newbies will be employable as soon as they get their CPL(H). Like...how this is such a great and wonderful career. It's almost as if the speaker gets some sort of perverse pleasure out of misleading the newbie.
Then the newbie gets into his training and finds out that A) his new commercial license will NOT allow him to get a job after all, and B) the jobs that are out there - even at the "journeyman" or very-experienced level pay WAAAAAY less than they "ought" to...way less than jobs in other risky, technical fields in which the participants have to be as highly qualified and experienced as we. Blimey!
I say: Let's be honest about this business. The ones who are truly dedicated to doing it for a living will perservere.
And if I'm not "PC" enough, screw you.
Lest Flaredammit's somewhat hostile view puts you off, many other very experienced pilots expressed the opposite view on a recent thread.... Looks to me like he lost the fight with the big boys and now wants to take a pop at the new kids! :-)
Lost the fight? Grow up. What are you, in junior high school? There was no "fight."
But Flare is right to some extent. A new CPL is practically worthless for employment... Unless you can afford to get to at least 200hrs and think you'll enjoy instructing for at least a year or two, the options are thin if money is tight... To succeed in an aviation career seems to take an almost fanatical commitment that you don't see in most other vocations.
Yes, thank you for agreeing with me. I feel so much better now.
What I don't like is how people coming into this business get smoke blown up their arses by people *in* the business. Flight schools, yes, but experienced pilots too. Like...how newbies will be employable as soon as they get their CPL(H). Like...how this is such a great and wonderful career. It's almost as if the speaker gets some sort of perverse pleasure out of misleading the newbie.
Then the newbie gets into his training and finds out that A) his new commercial license will NOT allow him to get a job after all, and B) the jobs that are out there - even at the "journeyman" or very-experienced level pay WAAAAAY less than they "ought" to...way less than jobs in other risky, technical fields in which the participants have to be as highly qualified and experienced as we. Blimey!
I say: Let's be honest about this business. The ones who are truly dedicated to doing it for a living will perservere.
And if I'm not "PC" enough, screw you.
The Original Whirly
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buttline,
I agree; I definitely feel that the CPL was worth doing, even if it never gets me a job. I decided after I got my PPl that I'd never be happy just flying helicopters now and then and never really improving. That meant I could either end up with quite a lot more hours and nothing else to show for it, or do the ground exams (groan) and the CPL course and maybe, just maybe, get paid to fly in the future. Since I could afford to do it (sort of anyway), the choice was obvious - though I didn't say that in the middle of the ground exams. So I'd say go for it, but think twice before borrowing loads of dosh to do that - you might have a hard time paying it back.
Flare,
No-one cares that you're not PC - well, I don't anyway. But actually you'd make your point a lot more convincingly if you did so less forcefully.
Hmmm....do need to hide behind the parapet now?
I agree; I definitely feel that the CPL was worth doing, even if it never gets me a job. I decided after I got my PPl that I'd never be happy just flying helicopters now and then and never really improving. That meant I could either end up with quite a lot more hours and nothing else to show for it, or do the ground exams (groan) and the CPL course and maybe, just maybe, get paid to fly in the future. Since I could afford to do it (sort of anyway), the choice was obvious - though I didn't say that in the middle of the ground exams.
So I'd say go for it, but think twice before borrowing loads of dosh to do that - you might have a hard time paying it back.Flare,
No-one cares that you're not PC - well, I don't anyway. But actually you'd make your point a lot more convincingly if you did so less forcefully.
Hmmm....do need to hide behind the parapet now?
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Well Flare, arent you the happy one this morning.
Why take a dig at me? After selling my house and my car and scrounging money left right and centre, dont you think I know what the industry is like??
Just because I havent got licences and ratings coming out of my ear doesnt mean that I am a nobody.
Ok then, now that my heart has finished pounding and the veins in my neck have calmed down., I'll explain things a little clearer.
Firstly, I have no intention of heading off to Oz or anywhere as glamorous, I am fully aware of the job situations in those places.......why leave somewhere like the UK to go somewhere where my chances are nil also......give me some credit........the areas where I am going to chance my luck, are going to be these forgotten little places where even the guys with a few 1000hrs probably would not like to go (maybe some forgotten little country in the middle of deepest Africa), be it because of wages, family whatever...........is there something wrong with this, certainly in my previous careers it was considered an asset to put yourself out and chase positions and strive to better yourself. Rest assured, before I go anywhere, I will spend a long time researching the area, jobs, safety etc etc etc.
Secondly........."Less than adequate".........you where there once Flare!
I fully understand Flare, that when I get my CPL that it is not an opening to an automatic job, it may take me years to get that first position but I'll get it in the end, after all, all you guys out there with your thousands of hours got yours........one day I'll have my thousands of hours also. The one thing that I am not going to do however, is sit there and not try just because of low hours, every heli company in the uk is going to get my cv, I'm going to be turning up on doorsteps offering to wash helicopters and make tea, heck, I'll even shine the wings on the bosses jacket
I hope you dont take this as a personal dig Flare, I am just defending myself. I do take onboard the useful information that you have mentioned, not just in this thread but previous posts that you have left. I always listen and always will, to more experienced pilots but I also listen to less experienced pilots, we all have our own stories to tell.
The bulk of my information comes from two very experienced pilots who are out there plodding the North Sea......so far, their information has been spot on.
Thank you
Why take a dig at me? After selling my house and my car and scrounging money left right and centre, dont you think I know what the industry is like??
Just because I havent got licences and ratings coming out of my ear doesnt mean that I am a nobody.
Ok then, now that my heart has finished pounding and the veins in my neck have calmed down., I'll explain things a little clearer.
Firstly, I have no intention of heading off to Oz or anywhere as glamorous, I am fully aware of the job situations in those places.......why leave somewhere like the UK to go somewhere where my chances are nil also......give me some credit........the areas where I am going to chance my luck, are going to be these forgotten little places where even the guys with a few 1000hrs probably would not like to go (maybe some forgotten little country in the middle of deepest Africa), be it because of wages, family whatever...........is there something wrong with this, certainly in my previous careers it was considered an asset to put yourself out and chase positions and strive to better yourself. Rest assured, before I go anywhere, I will spend a long time researching the area, jobs, safety etc etc etc.
Secondly........."Less than adequate".........you where there once Flare!
I fully understand Flare, that when I get my CPL that it is not an opening to an automatic job, it may take me years to get that first position but I'll get it in the end, after all, all you guys out there with your thousands of hours got yours........one day I'll have my thousands of hours also. The one thing that I am not going to do however, is sit there and not try just because of low hours, every heli company in the uk is going to get my cv, I'm going to be turning up on doorsteps offering to wash helicopters and make tea, heck, I'll even shine the wings on the bosses jacket
I hope you dont take this as a personal dig Flare, I am just defending myself. I do take onboard the useful information that you have mentioned, not just in this thread but previous posts that you have left. I always listen and always will, to more experienced pilots but I also listen to less experienced pilots, we all have our own stories to tell.
The bulk of my information comes from two very experienced pilots who are out there plodding the North Sea......so far, their information has been spot on.
Thank you
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Fionnan, I wouldn't disagree with any of the points made above but flying a turbine will add a new dimension to your experience and help you maintain enthusiasm during the dark days of CPL theory study! The down side of course is the enormous cost of turbine flying. That said there is a way of bringing it in line with R22 hire costs...
Chuck Street flies a B206 for the KIISFM traffic watch in LA. He'll sell the left seat to you for USD 135 per hour which is about half the price of all in R22 hire in the UK. You'll need to do a B206 rating before you go in order for the hours to count towards your CPL but my personal experience was that about 70 hours of flying the traffic watch saved the cost of the type rating, flight to LA and accomodation costs for three weeks, bringing the total cost into line with that self fly hire of an R22 for the same number of hours in the UK.
One other piece of advice, given the fact you are unlikely to be well paid when you do get a flying job I don't think it is advisable to borrow money to buy hours. I'm amazed at how many people do this. If you don't owe anyone anything you'll be that much freer to find that low paid dream job being shot at in Sudan.
Chuck Street flies a B206 for the KIISFM traffic watch in LA. He'll sell the left seat to you for USD 135 per hour which is about half the price of all in R22 hire in the UK. You'll need to do a B206 rating before you go in order for the hours to count towards your CPL but my personal experience was that about 70 hours of flying the traffic watch saved the cost of the type rating, flight to LA and accomodation costs for three weeks, bringing the total cost into line with that self fly hire of an R22 for the same number of hours in the UK.
One other piece of advice, given the fact you are unlikely to be well paid when you do get a flying job I don't think it is advisable to borrow money to buy hours. I'm amazed at how many people do this. If you don't owe anyone anything you'll be that much freer to find that low paid dream job being shot at in Sudan.
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As if trying to force us to believe that he is "sane" and "rational," Aultguish asks:
Crikey! Ault, ol' buddy, in my career I have met plenty of pilots who have gone through to CPL(H) with virtually NO idea as to what this industry was really like. These blokes call me up with ZERO flight time/experience and ask if they can come and fly for me...or if I can find them a job someplace, anyplace...or if I can get them on with (insert name of company here). So, you've got a handle on this? Good on ya!
Not if you take a lot of LSD. Then it might seem perfectly reasonable and realistic. But hey, you're welcome to your fantasies.
Nope. Do not presume to know where I came from to get where I am in this business.
You want to play boy-slave and arse-kiss some Chief Pilot? Come to my place! I'm sure I'll find some duties for you to, um, "perform." Hell, it's been happening to commercial helicopter pilots for years, and they seem to enjoy it. However, my other pilots might be a little offended. You know how territorial prostitutes can be when a new 'ho in town shows up. But heh-heh, I do love to watch 'em fight! It keeps them too occupied to bother Big Daddy Pimp (me) for mo' money.
Yes, best cure for insomnia around. Personally, I never listen to stories by less experienced pilots (meaning: pilots with less total time than me). I don't even listen much to pilots with MORE experience than me. I mean, at this stage of the game, what's left to learn? I pretty much know it all by now. And my time is too valuable to waste. In the first place, low-timers all think they're Ken Wallis or...who's that Yank that everyone seems to think is God (no, not Nick Lappos)...Yeager-something?
Every low-timer I've ever met tried to impress me with his vast knowledge and unparalleled skill. And I walk away thinking, "Man, that Robbo pilot sure has done a heckuva lot of flying in 500 hours! Wow! I didn't even know the R-22 could lift that much on the hook! Sheee-ZAM!"
And low-time ex-mil pilots who have 100 hours in a Blackhawk? Let's not even TALK about those mighty men among men...the true superpilots of our industry. But I can't wait for the MV-22 pilots to start strutting around the aerodrome. Lookout! And we all thought surgeons had big egos! Osprey pilots are going to be worse than Comanche pilots...oh wait, the Comanche will never see service, so I guess that comparison is invalid.
Sorry, but I digress.
Well anyway Ault ol' sport, all kidding aside, best of luck in your job search. But let me leave you with one bit of incredibly valuable advice, worth every tuppence you're paying for it. Someone said that it is better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone assume you're a fool than open it and remove all doubt. (It is advice that I do not personally follow, but I don't care, I have more flight time than you, nyah nyah nyah.) Let your logbook and your flying abilities speak for you. You will find that what you do and how you do it tells a far more interesting and complete story than anything you tell people you do.
That is our lesson for today. Class dismissed.
After selling my house and my car and scrounging money left right and centre, dont you think I know what the industry is like??
the areas where I am going to chance my luck, are going to be these forgotten little places where even the guys with a few 1000hrs probably would not like to go (maybe some forgotten little country in the middle of deepest Africa), be it because of wages, family whatever...........is there something wrong with this
Secondly........."Less than adequate".........you were there once Flare!
The one thing that I am not going to do however, is sit there and not try just because of low hours, every heli company in the uk is going to get my cv, I'm going to be turning up on doorsteps offering to wash helicopters and make tea, heck, I'll even shine the wings on the bosses jacket
I always listen and always will, to more experienced pilots but I also listen to less experienced pilots, we all have our own stories to tell.
Every low-timer I've ever met tried to impress me with his vast knowledge and unparalleled skill. And I walk away thinking, "Man, that Robbo pilot sure has done a heckuva lot of flying in 500 hours! Wow! I didn't even know the R-22 could lift that much on the hook! Sheee-ZAM!"
And low-time ex-mil pilots who have 100 hours in a Blackhawk? Let's not even TALK about those mighty men among men...the true superpilots of our industry. But I can't wait for the MV-22 pilots to start strutting around the aerodrome. Lookout! And we all thought surgeons had big egos! Osprey pilots are going to be worse than Comanche pilots...oh wait, the Comanche will never see service, so I guess that comparison is invalid.
Sorry, but I digress.
Well anyway Ault ol' sport, all kidding aside, best of luck in your job search. But let me leave you with one bit of incredibly valuable advice, worth every tuppence you're paying for it. Someone said that it is better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone assume you're a fool than open it and remove all doubt. (It is advice that I do not personally follow, but I don't care, I have more flight time than you, nyah nyah nyah.) Let your logbook and your flying abilities speak for you. You will find that what you do and how you do it tells a far more interesting and complete story than anything you tell people you do.
That is our lesson for today. Class dismissed.
Last edited by Flare Dammit!; 15th Jul 2002 at 16:17.
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Cpl(h)
Does anyone know of anyone offering the ground school for JAA CPL(H) yet.
What folk's opinions as to whether it will ever be offered?
Many thanks
What folk's opinions as to whether it will ever be offered?
Many thanks
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Ground theory
Greetings rotorheads!
Just a quick question regarding the ATPL theory for (H). Just how different is it from Aeroplane Ground School? I am a PPL(A) holder(MIN requirement for rotor wing sponsorship consideration I`m told) and will not have the money to fly for quite some time and would like to do the ground theory now when I have as much time as I`m ever likely to have. It is actually helocopters that I wish to fly but do you think prospective employers would frown at fixed wing theory? The reason I would choose fixed wing theory is that even in these hard times I am more likely to get a fixed wing occupation. Eggs and baskets I think.
Any help/advice/realignment much needed and desperately wanted!
Callmeshirley.
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I'm qualified to answer your question. I am working on my ATPL(H) theory through Ground Training Services, they modified their FW program under interim CAA arrangements. Originally I was told the interim arrangements were good until 12/31/2004, however, I just read a post where it seems like this arrangement might become permanent as helicopter exams are on hold.
To answer your question most of the components are they same as FW, for helicopter they are using the UK CAA syllabus for the following areas: Principles of Flight Helicopters, Engines, Electrics, and Helicopter Systems.
I have 4000 hours of FW and it's boring, helicopters are neat!
Helicopter flying is raw flying, real flying !
In the airlines you can make good money but they way the industry is going now you can be furloughed anywhere from 1-5 years or more, I know of Pan Am guys who never went back.
Airline pilots today are more like computer operators, typing stuff into their MDU's. I also heard on the news today that SAS airlines was planning to furlough 400 pilots. If your flying FW and a lot of pilots are on furlough you will end up competing with them for jobs.
In the states one major airline is in bankruptcy and United might be next. CHC, Offshore Logistics, and Petroleum Helicopters each has more market capitalisation (stock price time number of shares) than United Airlines.
You should look into coming to the states to do your CPL(H) and CFI. For a CPL you need 150 hours and a CFI could be 15-25. To get a job instructing you may need 200 hours of heli time.
Get a J1 visa which would allow you to work here, check into this as things change. Be careful, I heard one story were a pilot got his CPL in his home country and then denied a J1 as he already had a CPL. I was trained by Norwegians who went this route and all 4 of them went home with 1000 hours of heli time.
One of them told me that he should of come to the U.S. under a tourist visa to do his PPL(H) and then come back under a J1 for the CPL(H), he would then have more time to instruct and build time.
This could be interesting times for heli pilots. In a recent discussion with one of my ex-instructors, now flying a S-76, made a comment that in the next 10 years a lot of pilots are going to retire and things will get interesting. Now this is in the states, the U.K. could be different. Things to look at is the growth of helicopters (usually slow), age of the pilot base, new pilots training for helicopters, number of military helicopter pilots training and leaving the service. Also, how is the oil supply holding up in the North Sea, number of years until the reserves are depleted.
Best of Luck, post any other questions you may have.
To answer your question most of the components are they same as FW, for helicopter they are using the UK CAA syllabus for the following areas: Principles of Flight Helicopters, Engines, Electrics, and Helicopter Systems.
I have 4000 hours of FW and it's boring, helicopters are neat!
Helicopter flying is raw flying, real flying !
In the airlines you can make good money but they way the industry is going now you can be furloughed anywhere from 1-5 years or more, I know of Pan Am guys who never went back.
Airline pilots today are more like computer operators, typing stuff into their MDU's. I also heard on the news today that SAS airlines was planning to furlough 400 pilots. If your flying FW and a lot of pilots are on furlough you will end up competing with them for jobs.
In the states one major airline is in bankruptcy and United might be next. CHC, Offshore Logistics, and Petroleum Helicopters each has more market capitalisation (stock price time number of shares) than United Airlines.
You should look into coming to the states to do your CPL(H) and CFI. For a CPL you need 150 hours and a CFI could be 15-25. To get a job instructing you may need 200 hours of heli time.
Get a J1 visa which would allow you to work here, check into this as things change. Be careful, I heard one story were a pilot got his CPL in his home country and then denied a J1 as he already had a CPL. I was trained by Norwegians who went this route and all 4 of them went home with 1000 hours of heli time.
One of them told me that he should of come to the U.S. under a tourist visa to do his PPL(H) and then come back under a J1 for the CPL(H), he would then have more time to instruct and build time.
This could be interesting times for heli pilots. In a recent discussion with one of my ex-instructors, now flying a S-76, made a comment that in the next 10 years a lot of pilots are going to retire and things will get interesting. Now this is in the states, the U.K. could be different. Things to look at is the growth of helicopters (usually slow), age of the pilot base, new pilots training for helicopters, number of military helicopter pilots training and leaving the service. Also, how is the oil supply holding up in the North Sea, number of years until the reserves are depleted.
Best of Luck, post any other questions you may have.
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I did the exams the other way round - ie rotary licence used to gain exemptions for ATPL(A). The only difference was the PofF for rotary as all the other systems were common. There were a few questions on heli systems in one paper. However, the new exams may be different.
The best advice I can propose is calling Alex Whittingham at Bristol Groundschool - he is also on this forum (see delayed exams thread). He has his finger on the pulse ref what you NEED to know and is a fine instructor to boot. What you need to know in the cockpit is slightly different! When I took the Hel PofF the exam wasn't written by a rotary pilot! Good Luck.
The best advice I can propose is calling Alex Whittingham at Bristol Groundschool - he is also on this forum (see delayed exams thread). He has his finger on the pulse ref what you NEED to know and is a fine instructor to boot. What you need to know in the cockpit is slightly different! When I took the Hel PofF the exam wasn't written by a rotary pilot! Good Luck.