ATPL/CPL Training: Ground School topics
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Norwich, CT USA
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Bert, ypu always had a way with the written word. Sounds like you are becoming a wordsmith. You still flying for Rogers or did you jump ship? Hell In Vegas It gets hot in Summer, its a Desert and high field elevations to boot. What are you flying now a AS-350 B-3 or a BH-206 L-3 like I am right now.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Then there was weather. If the wind got up to 12 kts over there, people got worried. I did my first solo over here with 17 kts. And I think a lot of US PPLs would have problems with the kind of weather we take for granted in the UK. "
Thats in the Training world.....The winds yesterday in Las Vegas were at times 22-27G45 and in the Grand Canyon it was a real Ass Kicker. Plus a desert sand storm reduced visibility to about 1/2 mile.....
Money drives Helicopters Companies so All were out there flying. Thats the world you are training for....
Thats in the Training world.....The winds yesterday in Las Vegas were at times 22-27G45 and in the Grand Canyon it was a real Ass Kicker. Plus a desert sand storm reduced visibility to about 1/2 mile.....
Money drives Helicopters Companies so All were out there flying. Thats the world you are training for....
Last edited by B Sousa; 22nd May 2002 at 13:27.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: maidenhead, UK
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Flying Lawyer, I think hindsight is a wonderful gift too. Not long afterwards a hirer signed out an aircraft for Duxford and took it to Holland - maybe we could have searched his flight bag and asked him why he needed a passport.
Maybe we should just refuse to hire to US JAR-PPLs unless they do a supplementary course with us - 45 hours would probably be enough.
Maybe we should just refuse to hire to US JAR-PPLs unless they do a supplementary course with us - 45 hours would probably be enough.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: by the seaside
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nickp,
You seem to have a problem with anyone having been trained by anyone that hasn't been trained by the UK 'system' when each of the arguements you put forward are shortfalls of your school more than US ones.
The biggest complaint I ever came across in the US was the requirements of individual schools for European PPL(H) to have training before being allowed to fly solo.
But then again, afterwards they never violated airspace
or took the aircraft somewhere other than they said they would. 
So what is your point
You seem to have a problem with anyone having been trained by anyone that hasn't been trained by the UK 'system' when each of the arguements you put forward are shortfalls of your school more than US ones.
The biggest complaint I ever came across in the US was the requirements of individual schools for European PPL(H) to have training before being allowed to fly solo.
But then again, afterwards they never violated airspace
or took the aircraft somewhere other than they said they would. So what is your point
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sunrise, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's just different on both sides of the big pond. but both sides have their winners and losers.
Whirly, sorry to hear you got stuck with one who didn't know navigation. Most of the time here I go by pilotage, being so low, or can do ded reckoning. On occasion I'll track a VOR radial!
On the other side you guys coming to the US can enjoy scooting along at 300 feet, something you likely don't get to do over there., which you mentioned.
Skillset is one thing, where you got yours is another; but one has to apply what one learned to where you are flying.
For example, I was in north county Sat. Watching traffic I knew what I could do for departure, etc. But decided to ask around to the local heli pilots I was sitting with, since I was unfamiliar with that field, in terms of whatever "local" procedures they had. Let's face it, no one wants to look like an idiot and have people wondering "What the F--k is he doing?"
No one said that when I left, er, ah, I hope no one said that when I left hehehe ....
Whirly, sorry to hear you got stuck with one who didn't know navigation. Most of the time here I go by pilotage, being so low, or can do ded reckoning. On occasion I'll track a VOR radial!
On the other side you guys coming to the US can enjoy scooting along at 300 feet, something you likely don't get to do over there., which you mentioned.
Skillset is one thing, where you got yours is another; but one has to apply what one learned to where you are flying.
For example, I was in north county Sat. Watching traffic I knew what I could do for departure, etc. But decided to ask around to the local heli pilots I was sitting with, since I was unfamiliar with that field, in terms of whatever "local" procedures they had. Let's face it, no one wants to look like an idiot and have people wondering "What the F--k is he doing?"
No one said that when I left, er, ah, I hope no one said that when I left hehehe ....
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bert,
Agree with all you said, but it's the training world we've been talking about.
Yes, of course US commercial pilots have to fly almost whatever the conditions. So do UK ones. I was booked today to do the flying and other tests required to get the R44 on my UK licence (more CAA hoops to jump through). Rain, high winds, low cloud, no-one else even thinking about flying. A year ago I'd probably have been told we weren't flying. Instead it was; "Well, you're a commercial pilot; you can't stop for a bit of wind!" We got it done anyway.
Yes, I know you have wind in Vegas. But US PPLs can still manage to get through the course without learning about weather. Over here you couldn't - unless you had a lifetime to spare. That's all.
Agree with all you said, but it's the training world we've been talking about.
Yes, of course US commercial pilots have to fly almost whatever the conditions. So do UK ones. I was booked today to do the flying and other tests required to get the R44 on my UK licence (more CAA hoops to jump through). Rain, high winds, low cloud, no-one else even thinking about flying. A year ago I'd probably have been told we weren't flying. Instead it was; "Well, you're a commercial pilot; you can't stop for a bit of wind!" We got it done anyway.
Yes, I know you have wind in Vegas. But US PPLs can still manage to get through the course without learning about weather. Over here you couldn't - unless you had a lifetime to spare. That's all.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nickp
Have to say you are coming across as having a bit of a chip about people doing PPLs in the US. I realise you're a FI here and may be concerned about loss of customers, but my impression is only a small percentage go to the US.
I don't think you can blame the US schools for failing to explain that further training in home countries is a good idea, and is likely to be essential in most places for self fly hire. Isn't it up to the UK school/club to impose a reasonable reqiuirement for safety reasons?
Flying Lawyer's point was a fair one wasn't it? And he made it much more gently than many would have. It's not really hindsight is it? You're Maidenhead based so presumably your school must be somewhere near LHR zone - or even just up the road in it? If a new PPL who'd trained in for example Scotland turned up, wouldn't it normal practice to make sure he was famil with the zone before letting him loose. Or for a FI to check his planned route?
Have to say you are coming across as having a bit of a chip about people doing PPLs in the US. I realise you're a FI here and may be concerned about loss of customers, but my impression is only a small percentage go to the US.
I don't think you can blame the US schools for failing to explain that further training in home countries is a good idea, and is likely to be essential in most places for self fly hire. Isn't it up to the UK school/club to impose a reasonable reqiuirement for safety reasons?
Flying Lawyer's point was a fair one wasn't it? And he made it much more gently than many would have. It's not really hindsight is it? You're Maidenhead based so presumably your school must be somewhere near LHR zone - or even just up the road in it? If a new PPL who'd trained in for example Scotland turned up, wouldn't it normal practice to make sure he was famil with the zone before letting him loose. Or for a FI to check his planned route?
CPL (H) syllabus
Does anyone out there know where I can buy a ready made JAR-FCL 2 approved CPL (H) practical training syllabus?
My country (Iceland) is in the process of adopting JAR-FCL 2 for us helicopter pilots and to get my school approved as FTO I´ll need to do a lot of paperwork which I do not have time for.
I already have the PPL (H) syllabus ready and I can just forget about FI training because no one is going to buy 300 hrs to be qualified for flight instructor training.
We have until now been able to do IFR training in our H-300 instrument trainer in simulated conditions, but we can forget about that to, according to JAR the a/c must be certfied for flight in IMC conditions.
So in the future we will only be able to do PPL (H) as RTF or if we get the FTO approval then we could continue CPL (H) training.
Please let me know if you know where I could get the CPL (H) syllabus.
Thanks.
My country (Iceland) is in the process of adopting JAR-FCL 2 for us helicopter pilots and to get my school approved as FTO I´ll need to do a lot of paperwork which I do not have time for.
I already have the PPL (H) syllabus ready and I can just forget about FI training because no one is going to buy 300 hrs to be qualified for flight instructor training.
We have until now been able to do IFR training in our H-300 instrument trainer in simulated conditions, but we can forget about that to, according to JAR the a/c must be certfied for flight in IMC conditions.
So in the future we will only be able to do PPL (H) as RTF or if we get the FTO approval then we could continue CPL (H) training.
Please let me know if you know where I could get the CPL (H) syllabus.
Thanks.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you go to the Flight Crew Licensing page on the CAA's website (www.caa.co.uk), you'll probably find them there. The ATPL(A) one's are definitely there.
Barry
Barry
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dun Laoghaire
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NZ CPL (H) to JAR FCL 2 conversion
Has anyone done (or is in the process of doing) a NZ CPL (H) to JAR FCL 2 conversion?? I've read the official guidelines but I'd like to know how it's being translated into practice. Can you give me an idea as to the process? Will I really have to do all the groundschool again??
Any information much appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Irlandés
Any information much appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Irlandés
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dun Laoghaire
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Rotorbike,
but it's not the exams I'm really worried about but having to do an obligatory ground course where I'll have to pay some FTO thousands of pounds to teach me something I already know! And probably a year to do it to boot!!
Ciao!
Irlandés
but it's not the exams I'm really worried about but having to do an obligatory ground course where I'll have to pay some FTO thousands of pounds to teach me something I already know! And probably a year to do it to boot!!
Ciao!
Irlandés
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATPL Theory (A) to (H) Conversion
Rumour has it (despite no response from the CAA) that if you hold ATPL (A) theory, there are just bridging exams to do to gain ATPL(H) theory.
Anyone know of an outfit actually offerring this??? I've been looking for while with no luck.
Anyone know of an outfit actually offerring this??? I've been looking for while with no luck.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern England
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure a call to one of the groundschool providers such as Bristol will give you an answer, or at least their interpretation of latest CAA inspirations.
the last time I tried to get an answer out of the CAA by email it took about 12 days, so don't hold your breath.
the last time I tried to get an answer out of the CAA by email it took about 12 days, so don't hold your breath.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm looking at it the other way around. i.e. I've done the ATPL(H) subjects and looking to do the ATPL(A) subjects while I'm still in study mode.
CAA advised me that I'll need to sit POF, Performance and Aircraft General so I guess it's the same in the opposite direction.
Currently the CAA don't have a helicopter paper for Performance or Mass and Balance or Instruments. Flight Plannnig and Ops Procedures are currently being hobbled together for us in a couple of weeks.
Longer term, helicopter specific papers are:-
Intruments
Flight Planning
Ops Procs
POF
Perf
Aircraft General
(I think's that it - the rest are common to both)
If you get in quick (quick being a year in CAA terms) you'll probably get away with just doing POF. The reason I think that is because at the moment Oxford and Cabbair have an approval to teach their helicopter ATP guys the fixed wing syllabus for all subjects + Helicopter POF. In any case, you should email the CAA for confirmation - Simon White I think - check out the Saftey Reg Group page at http://www.caa.co.uk
Texts on POF by Pooleys and Wagdendonk's Principle's of Helicopter Flight. Helicopter Adventures in Florida may sell you their Heli ATP POF course manual (www.heli.com) ask for Sam Hayes.
CAA advised me that I'll need to sit POF, Performance and Aircraft General so I guess it's the same in the opposite direction.
Currently the CAA don't have a helicopter paper for Performance or Mass and Balance or Instruments. Flight Plannnig and Ops Procedures are currently being hobbled together for us in a couple of weeks.
Longer term, helicopter specific papers are:-
Intruments
Flight Planning
Ops Procs
POF
Perf
Aircraft General
(I think's that it - the rest are common to both)
If you get in quick (quick being a year in CAA terms) you'll probably get away with just doing POF. The reason I think that is because at the moment Oxford and Cabbair have an approval to teach their helicopter ATP guys the fixed wing syllabus for all subjects + Helicopter POF. In any case, you should email the CAA for confirmation - Simon White I think - check out the Saftey Reg Group page at http://www.caa.co.uk
Texts on POF by Pooleys and Wagdendonk's Principle's of Helicopter Flight. Helicopter Adventures in Florida may sell you their Heli ATP POF course manual (www.heli.com) ask for Sam Hayes.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amazing
Just after I'd given up I got a response from the CAA. In case its helpful to someone:
"I can confirm that if you obtain a JAR CPL(A)/IR with ATPL theory, under current arrangements you would only be required to pass the JAR Principles of Flight (Helicopters) examination at ATPL(H) level in order to obtain a JAR CPL(H). However, you should note that these terms are a temporary arrangement pending the availability of JAR bridging examinations which are expected to be available by the end of the year".
Thanks for your replies
Just after I'd given up I got a response from the CAA. In case its helpful to someone:
"I can confirm that if you obtain a JAR CPL(A)/IR with ATPL theory, under current arrangements you would only be required to pass the JAR Principles of Flight (Helicopters) examination at ATPL(H) level in order to obtain a JAR CPL(H). However, you should note that these terms are a temporary arrangement pending the availability of JAR bridging examinations which are expected to be available by the end of the year".
Thanks for your replies
Jet Blast Rat
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarfend-on-Sea
Age: 51
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as I know only Cabair do approved helicopter groundschool in this country (though one in Florida (Helicopter Adventures?) does so also I believe).
However the advice you have from the CAA says you only have to pass the exam, implying no approved course. Thus if you get hold of some notes you could self study. If you do so and get stuck, either look to Cabair for tuition or email me - I know someone who could probably help (and for the moderators, no I am not advertising my employer, the first person I would suggest was a colleague in SFT but now works for a rival). He is ex-Bristow groundschool, ex-army and North Sea. My helicopter P of F is a little rusty
Best of luck
However the advice you have from the CAA says you only have to pass the exam, implying no approved course. Thus if you get hold of some notes you could self study. If you do so and get stuck, either look to Cabair for tuition or email me - I know someone who could probably help (and for the moderators, no I am not advertising my employer, the first person I would suggest was a colleague in SFT but now works for a rival). He is ex-Bristow groundschool, ex-army and North Sea. My helicopter P of F is a little rusty
Best of luck
Guest
Posts: n/a
Getting from PPL(H) to CPL(H) + job
Having just passed my flight test and received JAA PPL(H), I would appreciate some advice on good career moves for getting CPL(H) and a job soon after. Do I go for a turbine rating and some experience with it or stick with a cheaper piston type until after getting my CPL? If anybody knows of employers who will take on fresh CPL's, could they please point me in their direction. Any help would be appreciated as good heli opportunities are infrequent for low hour CPL's in Ireland.