ATPL/CPL Training: Ground School topics
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CPL - the truth
Greetings fellow Rotorheads,
Now, this is a bit of an idle enquiry, but if any of you CPL's fancy giving your opinion then I'd be grateful...
I'm a PPL(H) with 105hrs in the R22. I plan to do the CPL(H) and I'm slowly building the hours. I'm in the pleasant position that I enjoy my job so I have no plans to give it all up for helicoptering and there's no rush to complete the CPL. It's just something I'd like to do with the licence...
My questions are: (i) has anyone any views on the best place to complete the ground exams? Any good or bad recent reports? (ii) if I get to the stage of having a CPL(H), with hours only on the R22 (although I'm toying with the R44 conversion), what is the next best step? More hours, I suppose, to make me employable, but the B206 conversion would seem sensible too, simply because of the number of them about.
Any opinions are welcome, along with any cold cures because I'm currently grounded by my third this winter!
DBChopper
Now, this is a bit of an idle enquiry, but if any of you CPL's fancy giving your opinion then I'd be grateful...
I'm a PPL(H) with 105hrs in the R22. I plan to do the CPL(H) and I'm slowly building the hours. I'm in the pleasant position that I enjoy my job so I have no plans to give it all up for helicoptering and there's no rush to complete the CPL. It's just something I'd like to do with the licence...
My questions are: (i) has anyone any views on the best place to complete the ground exams? Any good or bad recent reports? (ii) if I get to the stage of having a CPL(H), with hours only on the R22 (although I'm toying with the R44 conversion), what is the next best step? More hours, I suppose, to make me employable, but the B206 conversion would seem sensible too, simply because of the number of them about.
Any opinions are welcome, along with any cold cures because I'm currently grounded by my third this winter!
DBChopper
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
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DBChopper,
I'd definitely recommend Bristol Ground School for the exams. You'll have to do the specific helicopter ones more or less alone (unless that's changed since I did mine), but they are excellent otherwise.
What to do next? I wish I knew. Most of us in your kind of position gradually get to 300 rotary hours, then do an instructors course. Of course, that means the UK helo world is drowning in newish AFIs, with a shortage of QHIs. I did the R44 conversion... and haven't flown it since. I asked if it was worth doing a B206 conversion, and was told it wasn't really worth doing a conversion for its own sake; you can do it when you need it. I did a US quickie conversion anyway in California and flew 25 hours with the Traffic Watch guy on the B206 - great fun, good experience, but is it likely to make me employable? I doubt it. Of course, I haven't tried that hard for work. I do know one newish CPL who got some part time work - he knew the right people and was in the right place at the right time. You could do an instrument rating at a cost of £23,000 ( I think) and maybe (but only maybe) get a right hand seat on the North Sea. Or you could go abroad - probably the best option if you really want to fly helicopters for a living.
Sorry to be so negative - I'm not really because I've done the same thing and I think it's all been worth it - but that's how I see it.
Good luck (so long as you don't take my job anyway
)
I'd definitely recommend Bristol Ground School for the exams. You'll have to do the specific helicopter ones more or less alone (unless that's changed since I did mine), but they are excellent otherwise.
What to do next? I wish I knew. Most of us in your kind of position gradually get to 300 rotary hours, then do an instructors course. Of course, that means the UK helo world is drowning in newish AFIs, with a shortage of QHIs. I did the R44 conversion... and haven't flown it since. I asked if it was worth doing a B206 conversion, and was told it wasn't really worth doing a conversion for its own sake; you can do it when you need it. I did a US quickie conversion anyway in California and flew 25 hours with the Traffic Watch guy on the B206 - great fun, good experience, but is it likely to make me employable? I doubt it. Of course, I haven't tried that hard for work. I do know one newish CPL who got some part time work - he knew the right people and was in the right place at the right time. You could do an instrument rating at a cost of £23,000 ( I think) and maybe (but only maybe) get a right hand seat on the North Sea. Or you could go abroad - probably the best option if you really want to fly helicopters for a living.
Sorry to be so negative - I'm not really because I've done the same thing and I think it's all been worth it - but that's how I see it.
Good luck (so long as you don't take my job anyway
)
Must agree with Whirlybird - not easy at all! I think the most important thing is to be absolutely sure that you want to fly helos for a living - 100% commitment is a must and unless you are extremely lucky, a lot of personal sacrifice. But having said that if you really want to - there is always a way!
Hey Whirly, right hand seat = commanders seat, we lowly co-pilots have to take the left hand seat (=all the leaks and you can´t use your cupholder because of all the vibration there!) - but I am sure you knew that! ;-)
Good luck hope it works out for you!
Hey Whirly, right hand seat = commanders seat, we lowly co-pilots have to take the left hand seat (=all the leaks and you can´t use your cupholder because of all the vibration there!) - but I am sure you knew that! ;-)
Good luck hope it works out for you!
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Going sideways a bit here but am I barking up the wrong tree by thinking that if one has say 22's, 44's and 206 conversions then would the likelyhood of freebes increase?
The Original Whirly
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Woolf,
Time I knew right from left isn't it. Maybe I should get some of those red and green socks.
Cron,
I was told no, but you could be right. Probably down to a mixture of luck, persistence, where you live, who you know - can't do any harm, but keeping all those types current could be expensive. Try it and let me know.
Time I knew right from left isn't it. Maybe I should get some of those red and green socks.
Cron,
I was told no, but you could be right. Probably down to a mixture of luck, persistence, where you live, who you know - can't do any harm, but keeping all those types current could be expensive. Try it and let me know.
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CRON:
I have a CPL(H) and Instructors(R) rating plus the 22,44 and 206 on my licence in the belief it made you more employable. It's definitely not the case. I think most people will agree with me that it's not what you know, but who you know in this industry.
Just the 206 rating alone is expensive but you need a few hours before anyone will let you lose with a more expensive machine. Unless of course anyone knows otherwise?
I have a CPL(H) and Instructors(R) rating plus the 22,44 and 206 on my licence in the belief it made you more employable. It's definitely not the case. I think most people will agree with me that it's not what you know, but who you know in this industry.
Just the 206 rating alone is expensive but you need a few hours before anyone will let you lose with a more expensive machine. Unless of course anyone knows otherwise?
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i think you should get all the ratings you can,cos you never know when you will be useful, I got a lot of 206 time doing engineering flights, cos the engineers attitude was that if you had the rating you were legal.
also as far as instructing goes most likely place you will get it is wher you did your instructor course, I did more than 1000 hours flight instruction at the place I did my course, and that started with the CFI saying i could only do the odd trial lesson every now and then ( from small acorns mighty oaks yada yada yada)
unforunately it is a very cynical business, people will always tell you you have the wrong experience when it suits them but anything goes if they need you, i have seen people being sent off in a 206 cross country by someone who wouldnt let them start it themselves, because they didnt trust them not to overtemp it, but they did trust them to fly it apparently.
lately people have been telling me I have too much IFR time, they used to say I didnt have an instrument rating. apparently I cant navigate anymore visually, they never said that when I was flying robinsons.
in some ways the heli business is fun in a lot of others it is sh*te
also as far as instructing goes most likely place you will get it is wher you did your instructor course, I did more than 1000 hours flight instruction at the place I did my course, and that started with the CFI saying i could only do the odd trial lesson every now and then ( from small acorns mighty oaks yada yada yada)
unforunately it is a very cynical business, people will always tell you you have the wrong experience when it suits them but anything goes if they need you, i have seen people being sent off in a 206 cross country by someone who wouldnt let them start it themselves, because they didnt trust them not to overtemp it, but they did trust them to fly it apparently.
lately people have been telling me I have too much IFR time, they used to say I didnt have an instrument rating. apparently I cant navigate anymore visually, they never said that when I was flying robinsons.
in some ways the heli business is fun in a lot of others it is sh*te
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I appreciate it is probably on the CAA site but I'm at work on my break and require the bitter truth as to keeping types on Licence, don't tell me, 5hrs on each per year?
The Original Whirly
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No Cron, only two hours per type I believe. Not really that bad, but a lot of money if all you're doing is keeping the rating in order to keep the rating.
Jar-fcl Cpl(h)
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As far as I can remember, the ATPL(A) theory is 800hrs.
I didn't think that many people did the basic CPL stuff anymore, but please feel free to correct me.
I stand corrected. From LASORS
Modular CPL(A)
The course consists of a minimum of 25 hours of
flying training and 200 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction for CPL(A) and 650 hours
theoretical knowledge instruction for ATPL(A).
Modular CPL(H)
The course consists of a minimum of 30 hours of
flying training and 500 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction, for CPL(H) and 650 hours
theoretical knowledge instruction for ATPL(H).
courses.
I didn't think that many people did the basic CPL stuff anymore, but please feel free to correct me.
I stand corrected. From LASORS
Modular CPL(A)
The course consists of a minimum of 25 hours of
flying training and 200 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction for CPL(A) and 650 hours
theoretical knowledge instruction for ATPL(A).
Modular CPL(H)
The course consists of a minimum of 30 hours of
flying training and 500 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction, for CPL(H) and 650 hours
theoretical knowledge instruction for ATPL(H).
courses.
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It may only be of theoretical interest, since there will be few opportunities to just do a CPL course, but the reason will be fascinating.............. Except that no one will ever take responsibility for it, and it was probably just a typo when they copied the fixed wing stuff wholesale from JAR FCL1.
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Northern Flyer,
From LASORS again,
From LASORS again,
Airline Transport Pilot (Helicopter)
Integrated Course
The aim of this course is to train pilots to the level
of proficiency necessary to enable them to operate
as co-pilot on multi-pilot, multi-engine helicopters in
commercial air transportation and to obtain the
CPL(H)/IR but not any further specialisation (e.g.
aerial work activities).
The course consists of a minimum of 195 hours of
flying training and 750 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction. The course also includes
training in multi-crew co-operation for the operation
of multi-pilot helicopters.
Integrated Course
The aim of this course is to train pilots to the level
of proficiency necessary to enable them to operate
as co-pilot on multi-pilot, multi-engine helicopters in
commercial air transportation and to obtain the
CPL(H)/IR but not any further specialisation (e.g.
aerial work activities).
The course consists of a minimum of 195 hours of
flying training and 750 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction. The course also includes
training in multi-crew co-operation for the operation
of multi-pilot helicopters.
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To quote JAR-FCL 2:
2.285 Theoretical Knowledge
'The holder of a CPL(H) and IR(H) satisfies knowledge requirements for the issue of an ATPL(H)'
So... I guess there is not actually ATPL(H) level theory´but maybe an ATPL(H) integrated course!!!
2.285 Theoretical Knowledge
'The holder of a CPL(H) and IR(H) satisfies knowledge requirements for the issue of an ATPL(H)'
So... I guess there is not actually ATPL(H) level theory´but maybe an ATPL(H) integrated course!!!
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Commercial License Training
I'm about to start my commercial helicopter license, probably via distance learning on a modular course and I was wondering if anybody particularly recommends any school (i.e. Oxford, Guildhall, Cabair, Bristol etc.) as I'm really unsure which one to go for.
I have a PPL(A) and PPL(H) with insructors rating and have taught for about 6 months.
Any ideas?
I have a PPL(A) and PPL(H) with insructors rating and have taught for about 6 months.
Any ideas?
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CPL(H) Theory.
Hello,
I currently hold a CPLA in Australia with about 300 hrs and now want to venture into the world of the angry palm trees, and I'd like some suggestions on where to train?
I'm looking at doing the theory before I start flight training and was wondering what are the best books for home study, as I already have my CPLA I will only need to do Flight planning, Aerodynamics, Systems and Airlaw.
Thanks in Advance.
SP.
I currently hold a CPLA in Australia with about 300 hrs and now want to venture into the world of the angry palm trees, and I'd like some suggestions on where to train?
I'm looking at doing the theory before I start flight training and was wondering what are the best books for home study, as I already have my CPLA I will only need to do Flight planning, Aerodynamics, Systems and Airlaw.
Thanks in Advance.
SP.