ATPL/CPL Training: Ground School topics
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Bristol dont do the CPL (H) distance learning only ATPL and recommended Atlantic to me.
I signed on with Atlantic this week. They are expecting the final nod from the CAA any day.
Floppy
I signed on with Atlantic this week. They are expecting the final nod from the CAA any day.
Floppy
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I've just tried to find a website for Atlantic Aviation but failed.
Please could somebody post a link or give contact details.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Please could somebody post a link or give contact details.
Cheers
Whirlygig
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Talking of studying...
How much of a difference is there in the work/studying/depth of knowledge required between the CPL and the ATPL?
Am I right in thinking that most used to do the ATPL exams but now that they are only required for multi-crew machines more people do the CPL?
Thanks...
How much of a difference is there in the work/studying/depth of knowledge required between the CPL and the ATPL?
Am I right in thinking that most used to do the ATPL exams but now that they are only required for multi-crew machines more people do the CPL?
Thanks...
Join Date: Jan 2001
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DB Chopper,
In the UK and pre-JAR FCL there only was one set of helicopter exams for both CPL and ATPL (H). The only difference between the two licences was how many hours flying timeyou had. When JAR FCL arrived for heles, they copied the fixed wing definition across for the two licences - In practice it does not make much sense in the UK but the committee that made the decision only had one pilot on it!
In the UK and pre-JAR FCL there only was one set of helicopter exams for both CPL and ATPL (H). The only difference between the two licences was how many hours flying timeyou had. When JAR FCL arrived for heles, they copied the fixed wing definition across for the two licences - In practice it does not make much sense in the UK but the committee that made the decision only had one pilot on it!
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Whirlygig - use /www.flyaft.com
They only talk about ATPL and CPL(A) there at the moment, no mention of a helicourse
floppyjock - what's the course sylabus as I heared a rumour (!) that there's only 7 exams involved ? Is this true or just wishfull thinking !!!
They only talk about ATPL and CPL(A) there at the moment, no mention of a helicourse
floppyjock - what's the course sylabus as I heared a rumour (!) that there's only 7 exams involved ? Is this true or just wishfull thinking !!!
Theory on the JAR ATPL(A) courses 40% needtoknow
50% nicetoknow
10% crap
For example it really sucks that you have learn flight planning on B-737 across the Atlantic.
and the FCL,2 is no good and full of fixed wing crap that does not work for helicopters. 
50% nicetoknow
10% crap
For example it really sucks that you have learn flight planning on B-737 across the Atlantic.
and the FCL,2 is no good and full of fixed wing crap that does not work for helicopters.
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...or the "need" to know how a pressurized cabin work, or how to best manage "jet lag" when travelling through time zones. I agree that it's almost unmanageable to cope with the great time difference when flying from London to Paris.
It's awkward that they tend to ask questions about the terminology instead of the knowledge behind the terminology.
It's awkward that they tend to ask questions about the terminology instead of the knowledge behind the terminology.
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CPL Exams
Floppyjock,
If you could post a note on here when you know about the exams that would be great. I'm looking to underatke the CPL (H) soon, and after reading this page may go to Atlantic, and if there are now only 7 exams that would be marvellous! I'm in America building hours as a flight instructor on Bell 47's.
Hope to be home soon.
Darren
If you could post a note on here when you know about the exams that would be great. I'm looking to underatke the CPL (H) soon, and after reading this page may go to Atlantic, and if there are now only 7 exams that would be marvellous! I'm in America building hours as a flight instructor on Bell 47's.
Hope to be home soon.
Darren
Ground school
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Finished hybrid ATPL(H) course with Bristol in August 
Didn't have to take fixed wing performance paper
Found course notes to be excellent. Brush up courses even better and exam feedback superb.
All groundschool instructors know their stuff and the guy they use for Aircraft Gen and rotary PoF was a god send
Did whole lot in 11 months whilst working full time. Even as a 100hrs heli student with zero prior fixed wing knowledge passed all exams first time.
Heard rumour that a JAA ATPL(H) syllabus might be coming, but thought CPL plans had been scrapped
Appreciate current examining situation is far from heli friendly but I couldn't fault BGS
Didn't have to take fixed wing performance paper
Found course notes to be excellent. Brush up courses even better and exam feedback superb.
All groundschool instructors know their stuff and the guy they use for Aircraft Gen and rotary PoF was a god send
Did whole lot in 11 months whilst working full time. Even as a 100hrs heli student with zero prior fixed wing knowledge passed all exams first time.
Heard rumour that a JAA ATPL(H) syllabus might be coming, but thought CPL plans had been scrapped
Appreciate current examining situation is far from heli friendly but I couldn't fault BGS
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cpl ground school
it is true that there is a lot of none relevant stuff in the theory but its a hoop that you have to go through
Oxford avaition is where i went and it is the best, they will get you through without any messing, take my word for it, they are good not the cheapest but hell this is aviation but if you are serious about first time pass then get there
Oxford avaition is where i went and it is the best, they will get you through without any messing, take my word for it, they are good not the cheapest but hell this is aviation but if you are serious about first time pass then get there
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I want to start CPL(H) by distance learning as soon as I've got my class 1. dit a bit of phoning around a few weeks ago. spoke to ATA , Bristol, Oxford, Cabair & AFT.
Only AFT had a distance learning course, so not much of a choice to make.
Spoke to Nigel Roche at AFT, said they already had CAA aproval for the first half of the course & were expexting second part to be aproved "any day", this was in october.
I see on their web site that CPL(H) distance learning is now available £1495.
Only option for me i still have to live & pay the bills !!
I am not the messiah!
Only AFT had a distance learning course, so not much of a choice to make.
Spoke to Nigel Roche at AFT, said they already had CAA aproval for the first half of the course & were expexting second part to be aproved "any day", this was in october.
I see on their web site that CPL(H) distance learning is now available £1495.
Only option for me i still have to live & pay the bills !!
I am not the messiah!
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ICAO Theory credit to JAA theory?
Hi All
Does anyone know of any way that you can reduce the time/no. of weeks study that the UK CAA and theory FTOs insist that you do, prior to being recommended for JAA CPL(H) exams if you hold a professional licence from a non JAA member state?
There seems to be zero recognised reciprocity between a CAA approved theory course and a relatively similar course in a non JAA state. i.e. you would have to undergo approx 30 weeks self study (CPL) or 6months (ATPL). The FTOs and the CAA pass the buck back and forth as to whose responsibility it is to make a dispensation or credit in light of previous experience.
I appreciate that I would have to study - a lot, and pass all exams. No argument there. But surely not as much as someone who is totally "green" or a PPL.
At the moment, one option open to me is to go to Norway where their CAA will approve me for the exams at the FTOs discretion, who have agreed that 1 month in the classroom should be sufficient for the whole lot. This seems incredible to me, that a country with around 4 million and English their 2nd language can do this, yet the UK are still dragging their heels on this issue, amongst other FCL2 issues.
I would rather do this in the UK, so any ideas?
Any suggestions/comments appreciated - PM if you wish.
Decimal
Does anyone know of any way that you can reduce the time/no. of weeks study that the UK CAA and theory FTOs insist that you do, prior to being recommended for JAA CPL(H) exams if you hold a professional licence from a non JAA member state?
There seems to be zero recognised reciprocity between a CAA approved theory course and a relatively similar course in a non JAA state. i.e. you would have to undergo approx 30 weeks self study (CPL) or 6months (ATPL). The FTOs and the CAA pass the buck back and forth as to whose responsibility it is to make a dispensation or credit in light of previous experience.
I appreciate that I would have to study - a lot, and pass all exams. No argument there. But surely not as much as someone who is totally "green" or a PPL.
At the moment, one option open to me is to go to Norway where their CAA will approve me for the exams at the FTOs discretion, who have agreed that 1 month in the classroom should be sufficient for the whole lot. This seems incredible to me, that a country with around 4 million and English their 2nd language can do this, yet the UK are still dragging their heels on this issue, amongst other FCL2 issues.
I would rather do this in the UK, so any ideas?
Any suggestions/comments appreciated - PM if you wish.
Decimal
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Hi Decimal.
I think you can't get any more reducion on the study time. I guess you'll have to study hard to pull through the 14 exams if you haven't studied the JAR stuff, they are tough.
I have been asking around the JAA countries for the last 2 years about this same thing but I have never gotten a sensible answer from anyone, doesn't matter if it was CAA or FTO's! No one wants to be the first step to do this for you.
Do your theory at this FTO you found in Norway, no question about it, and please give us the name of it for us to do the same, they might even give you a discount on the course if the business picks up ;-)
Good luck.
Heli-Ice
I think you can't get any more reducion on the study time. I guess you'll have to study hard to pull through the 14 exams if you haven't studied the JAR stuff, they are tough.
I have been asking around the JAA countries for the last 2 years about this same thing but I have never gotten a sensible answer from anyone, doesn't matter if it was CAA or FTO's! No one wants to be the first step to do this for you.
Do your theory at this FTO you found in Norway, no question about it, and please give us the name of it for us to do the same, they might even give you a discount on the course if the business picks up ;-)
Good luck.
Heli-Ice
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I had the same problem with my German ATPL. The CAA quoted me ALL 14 subjects and 50 hours flying to get a UK-JAA license.
They introduced JAA-FCL here last May so my licence will be automatically converted to JAA now upon re-newal in April after doing a ONE DAY seminar on differences.
Makes you wonder what the hell the big deal is supposed to be doesn't it!
Try Austria, I've heard they might be a little easier going at the moment but apparantly not for long so hurry up!
Good luck
They introduced JAA-FCL here last May so my licence will be automatically converted to JAA now upon re-newal in April after doing a ONE DAY seminar on differences.
Makes you wonder what the hell the big deal is supposed to be doesn't it!
Try Austria, I've heard they might be a little easier going at the moment but apparantly not for long so hurry up!
Good luck
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Heli-Ice -
I would understand having to study for quite some period for the ATPL stuff -14 exams (still based around fixed wing!). But I read early in 2003 in Lasors, that there were exam dates for subjects pertaining to CPL(H) - 9 exams in all. When I asked the CAA if I could self study (as there is a wealth of relevant study material out there) and then write the exams - I was refused, told I had to go to an approved theory FTO to get the study packs. But at that time, no-one was doing an approved course - in fact right now no-one has a fully approved course.
SO, the CAA have specific dates for exams, where no-one is allowed to turn up and write the exams - good eh? When asked if they had a syllabus for the course material (as do most other countries) - the CAA replied "No, that is the responsibility of the FTO"
For the majority of work in the UK, an ATPL is not required. Why should you have to write the 14 exams, then find a couple of years later you don`t meet the experience requirement to "unfreeze", and have to write again! Fortunately, the CAA do have plans to introduce "bridging" exams to go from CPL to ATPL in the near future. Too little to late I fear.
I`ll PM you the Norway school - but I would suspect that all of the four main ones will do this.
CyclicRick - I`m not sure about Austria, but Norway`s general English is excellent (compared to our Norwegian!) and the written exams can be in English aswell. Glad to hear your getting yourself sorted with the JAA licence.
I`d like to hear from anyone that has personal experience of this or similar - `cos I don`t think I`m the only one.
Thanks guys
Decimal
I would understand having to study for quite some period for the ATPL stuff -14 exams (still based around fixed wing!). But I read early in 2003 in Lasors, that there were exam dates for subjects pertaining to CPL(H) - 9 exams in all. When I asked the CAA if I could self study (as there is a wealth of relevant study material out there) and then write the exams - I was refused, told I had to go to an approved theory FTO to get the study packs. But at that time, no-one was doing an approved course - in fact right now no-one has a fully approved course.
SO, the CAA have specific dates for exams, where no-one is allowed to turn up and write the exams - good eh? When asked if they had a syllabus for the course material (as do most other countries) - the CAA replied "No, that is the responsibility of the FTO"
For the majority of work in the UK, an ATPL is not required. Why should you have to write the 14 exams, then find a couple of years later you don`t meet the experience requirement to "unfreeze", and have to write again! Fortunately, the CAA do have plans to introduce "bridging" exams to go from CPL to ATPL in the near future. Too little to late I fear.
I`ll PM you the Norway school - but I would suspect that all of the four main ones will do this.
CyclicRick - I`m not sure about Austria, but Norway`s general English is excellent (compared to our Norwegian!) and the written exams can be in English aswell. Glad to hear your getting yourself sorted with the JAA licence.
I`d like to hear from anyone that has personal experience of this or similar - `cos I don`t think I`m the only one.
Thanks guys
Decimal
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in fact right now no-one has a fully approved course.
There is a company, based near Coventry, that, I believe has approval for CPL(H) theory. Called Atlantic Flight Training and there has been a previous thread about them which I can't work out how to post but search for CPL(H) Groundschool.
Cheers
Whirlygig