Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects
Join Date: May 2003
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Job market in Oz for rookie Helo pilots?
(apologies for the cross-post, but the D&G section seems to have mostly fixed-wingers).
So I'm thinking of getting my rotary-wing CPL, and am looking for some constructive feedback as to how the employment prospects would be.
Have worked my ass off to save the cash required (though would still pay as I went), so I have some kind of understanding as to the work ethic I'm going to need to be successful. And likewise I understand that many first jobs are mustering, but in reality how many mustering jobs are even out there? Will I spend two years searching for my first job, or with guts & determination is it possible to make a go of it?
I realise that many get into rotary & fixed CPLs with a false expectation as to how easy and how profitable it will be to find a job, so obviously I'd like to avoid that at all costs. I've got the money to get some ratings & conversions, but I'd appreciate any & all constructive feedback. Ta!
So I'm thinking of getting my rotary-wing CPL, and am looking for some constructive feedback as to how the employment prospects would be.
Have worked my ass off to save the cash required (though would still pay as I went), so I have some kind of understanding as to the work ethic I'm going to need to be successful. And likewise I understand that many first jobs are mustering, but in reality how many mustering jobs are even out there? Will I spend two years searching for my first job, or with guts & determination is it possible to make a go of it?
I realise that many get into rotary & fixed CPLs with a false expectation as to how easy and how profitable it will be to find a job, so obviously I'd like to avoid that at all costs. I've got the money to get some ratings & conversions, but I'd appreciate any & all constructive feedback. Ta!
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Number9
I think this has been answered a few times already but anyway
There are plenty of mustering jobs out there if you have extensive cattle experience and you can talk like a ringer. If not forget mustering, if you don't know cattle they won't give you a start... usually.
There are some tourism jobs around in the top end at Catherine or Kununurra but you may have to spend a couple of years up there before you get a start.
I think that if you got your cpl plus a rating on B47 & r44 sell everything, go to the top end, and live there until you get a start you will probably be successful.
You could also try the rock (if you do your licence with PHS) or the great ocean road.
If you plan on getting your licence and then sitting in one of the cities and sending out resumes then spend your money on something else.
You need to commit to about 5-7 years in the bush to get a start and get your first 1500 hours. And hey it's a good life. If you're not prepared to spend that amount of time in the middle of nowhere choose a different career.
I think this has been answered a few times already but anyway
There are plenty of mustering jobs out there if you have extensive cattle experience and you can talk like a ringer. If not forget mustering, if you don't know cattle they won't give you a start... usually.
There are some tourism jobs around in the top end at Catherine or Kununurra but you may have to spend a couple of years up there before you get a start.
I think that if you got your cpl plus a rating on B47 & r44 sell everything, go to the top end, and live there until you get a start you will probably be successful.
You could also try the rock (if you do your licence with PHS) or the great ocean road.
If you plan on getting your licence and then sitting in one of the cities and sending out resumes then spend your money on something else.
You need to commit to about 5-7 years in the bush to get a start and get your first 1500 hours. And hey it's a good life. If you're not prepared to spend that amount of time in the middle of nowhere choose a different career.
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I think this has been answered a few times already but anyway
There are plenty of mustering jobs out there if you have extensive cattle experience and you can talk like a ringer. If not forget mustering, if you don't know cattle they won't give you a start... usually.
Though living in Africa, I do see a lot of them! And can talk like a ringer if I really have to 
There are some tourism jobs around in the top end at Catherine or Kununurra but you may have to spend a couple of years up there before you get a start.
I think that if you got your cpl plus a rating on B47 & r44 sell everything, go to the top end, and live there until you get a start you will probably be successful.
I could certainly afford to get my B47 and R44, though obviously paying for numerous hours is a different issue. I could even get a B206 endorsement, though I don't think there are any to fly!
You could also try the rock (if you do your licence with PHS) or the great ocean road.
If you plan on getting your licence and then sitting in one of the cities and sending out resumes then spend your money on something else.
You need to commit to about 5-7 years in the bush to get a start and get your first 1500 hours. And hey it's a good life. If you're not prepared to spend that amount of time in the middle of nowhere choose a different career.
You need to commit to about 5-7 years in the bush to get a start and get your first 1500 hours. And hey it's a good life. If you're not prepared to spend that amount of time in the middle of nowhere choose a different career.
Mr Selfish: Have done, thanks! I'll also try reading up about the USA schools that offer J1 visas (and thus the 12-24 month tuition there), could be an avenue also.
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there is nothing wrong with jandakot at all. good school.
5/7 years is a joke.
plenty of pilots with no experience get jobs mustering, you just have to try harder.
it's katherine with a k, they must have never been there.
there are few 47's left in the top end so forget that endorsement.
get your atpl and irex no matter what. promise.
pm me for advice.
5/7 years is a joke.
plenty of pilots with no experience get jobs mustering, you just have to try harder.
it's katherine with a k, they must have never been there.
there are few 47's left in the top end so forget that endorsement.
get your atpl and irex no matter what. promise.
pm me for advice.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Do get your 47 endorsement, there are still plenty around in tourism.... Hamilton island have 3
44 is also a good idea
Try Hamilton island and Cairns once you have your licence it may take a while driving a bus picking up passengers or working in the hangar but it is well worth the effort in the end.
I know many who have tried the mustering way in the last few years and it is a pretty tough one if you have no cattle knowledge but very valuable experience if you end up doing it...
One city slicker is doing his second year as a ringer hoping to go flying next year.
Good luck
The jobs are out there for those who are willing to work hard for them
44 is also a good idea
Try Hamilton island and Cairns once you have your licence it may take a while driving a bus picking up passengers or working in the hangar but it is well worth the effort in the end.
I know many who have tried the mustering way in the last few years and it is a pretty tough one if you have no cattle knowledge but very valuable experience if you end up doing it...
One city slicker is doing his second year as a ringer hoping to go flying next year.
Good luck
The jobs are out there for those who are willing to work hard for them
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Deeper .. maybe you had a good run but I think 5-7 years in the bush, from arrival looking for a job to leaving with 1500 or so houirs including 500 turbine is very realistic. To say less would just give the guy false hope. He may get out in less but probably he won't
And I think they are still using kwackas at Katherine gorge and at the bungles so for the sake of 3-5 hours why not turn up with the endorsement. Heliwork hires 2 or 3 low hour pilots a year and last year they all started on kwakas so check your info. I know they are selling them off but last I heard they still had a couple.
And the days of low hour pilots with no cattle experience getting mustering jobs are gone, long gone. Unless you count flying a busted arse station owned 22 logging 1 in 10 hours and for mine thats not a start its the road to nowhere.
Yep I've seen guys get in and out of the top end in 3 years and I've seen guys get mustering jobs with little cattle experience but these guys are the exception not the norm so why b.s. poor old number9. He did say he didn't want to get false expectations after all.
Oh and good for you deeper you can spell Katherine... Goose.
And I think they are still using kwackas at Katherine gorge and at the bungles so for the sake of 3-5 hours why not turn up with the endorsement. Heliwork hires 2 or 3 low hour pilots a year and last year they all started on kwakas so check your info. I know they are selling them off but last I heard they still had a couple.
And the days of low hour pilots with no cattle experience getting mustering jobs are gone, long gone. Unless you count flying a busted arse station owned 22 logging 1 in 10 hours and for mine thats not a start its the road to nowhere.
Yep I've seen guys get in and out of the top end in 3 years and I've seen guys get mustering jobs with little cattle experience but these guys are the exception not the norm so why b.s. poor old number9. He did say he didn't want to get false expectations after all.
Oh and good for you deeper you can spell Katherine... Goose.
Join Date: May 2003
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trackdirect: Yeah, I was certainly going to try and get an R44 endorsement, I didn't realise the B47s were still used at all but if they are then I'll try for that, too. No use limiting my options is there? And as you say, I don't mind doing the grunt go-nowhere work if there's light at the end of the tunnel (even if it's a few years down the track). I'm only 22 after all..
overpitched: To be honest, 5-7 years and leaving with 1500hrs with 500 on turbines doesn't sound unappealing. I mean it'd be nice if it's quicker, but if that's the way it is then that's the way it is! In terms of endorsements, is there really much of a difference between having 0 hours on a Kwakka (and thus no endorsement) and 10 hours (and thus one)? My point is, would it really make that much of a difference, as obviously either 0 or 10 hours is still no experience at all? I'd still certainly get the endorsement, though, if it's one more thing that could help me.
Say, there's a question (well, two). First, who does endorsements in Oz for the Kwakkas? And secondly, does CASA mandate a certain about of time in a certain helo before you can get an endorsement in something else? I mean, I can't see CASA saying "Okay, for your CPL(H) you need to log 20 hours in specificially an R22 before you can get an endorsement in an R44". I would imagine not, but who knows!
In terms of cattle experience, well... I know my way around `em but certainly nothing compared to someone who's worked on a farm all their life. But I know my way around a dirt-bike!
Mr Selfish: Yeah? Where do I sign? Can I just rock up with a cheque and leave with a CPL & captains job?
overpitched: To be honest, 5-7 years and leaving with 1500hrs with 500 on turbines doesn't sound unappealing. I mean it'd be nice if it's quicker, but if that's the way it is then that's the way it is! In terms of endorsements, is there really much of a difference between having 0 hours on a Kwakka (and thus no endorsement) and 10 hours (and thus one)? My point is, would it really make that much of a difference, as obviously either 0 or 10 hours is still no experience at all? I'd still certainly get the endorsement, though, if it's one more thing that could help me.
Say, there's a question (well, two). First, who does endorsements in Oz for the Kwakkas? And secondly, does CASA mandate a certain about of time in a certain helo before you can get an endorsement in something else? I mean, I can't see CASA saying "Okay, for your CPL(H) you need to log 20 hours in specificially an R22 before you can get an endorsement in an R44". I would imagine not, but who knows!
In terms of cattle experience, well... I know my way around `em but certainly nothing compared to someone who's worked on a farm all their life. But I know my way around a dirt-bike!
Mr Selfish: Yeah? Where do I sign? Can I just rock up with a cheque and leave with a CPL & captains job?
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No endorsements carried out on a KH4, No dual controls!
A Bell 47 endorsement counts though.
As part of your licence you can train on two types of helicopters but you must conduct a minimum of 20 hours on one type (nearly always the bigger and therefore more expensive type).
Mr Selfish:
The 5 hours PIC can be reduced if you have flown a similar type of helicopter.
A Bell 47 endorsement counts though.
As part of your licence you can train on two types of helicopters but you must conduct a minimum of 20 hours on one type (nearly always the bigger and therefore more expensive type).
Mr Selfish:
The 5 hours PIC can be reduced if you have flown a similar type of helicopter.
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Mr Selfish: Excuse my ignorance, however I just wanted to clarify something. If you're going to charter passengers, doesn't that require an ATPL(H)? I realise the 3/5 hour minimum reqs, however your other point has confused me. 
dzeroplus: So uhh, how does one learn on them then? :P Also, what's the advantage of training on two types of aircraft, apart from getting more hours logged on one? Or is that it.
dzeroplus: So uhh, how does one learn on them then? :P Also, what's the advantage of training on two types of aircraft, apart from getting more hours logged on one? Or is that it.
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Follow Deepers advice.
Having stomped around this Industry for a few years or so, I can't help but wonder at the laziness or ineptness of some existing or enthusiastic potential pilots.
If you are really serious about getting a start then take some advice:
1. Buy a Collar and Tie, and Jacket if down south. [And wear it every time you meet a potential entry point person]
[Never ever turn up for an appointment or basic flight lesson in Jeans and T shirt {even if you are paying for the experience} go buy a few white shirts and blue slacks], this small investment will be noticed.
2. Undertake every qualification that you can do before you start shaking hands:
Dangerous Goods
IREX
Airline Transport Pilot [Subjects] [Ignore the advice from those people that want to see a potential job before undertaking their study, they will be left way behind, if not already]
HUET
Chemical Licence
NVFR [insure this is in your basic training, check with your training institution]
3. Look at your selected school as a potential employer, and never ever forget that. Dress, talk and act for your entire time there as a potential valuable employee. They will notice, I assure you.
4. Select where you want to go in the future? What type of work do you want to do? And aim at those/that company. Find out their major tasks, personnel and entry requirements and work towards those.
Ask for a face to face 5 minute chat with their front line employer, normally the Chief Pilot.
Listen and take their advice, dont try to be a smart ass, these guys have seen it all before.
5. Good luck.
If you are really serious about getting a start then take some advice:
1. Buy a Collar and Tie, and Jacket if down south. [And wear it every time you meet a potential entry point person]
[Never ever turn up for an appointment or basic flight lesson in Jeans and T shirt {even if you are paying for the experience} go buy a few white shirts and blue slacks], this small investment will be noticed.
2. Undertake every qualification that you can do before you start shaking hands:
Dangerous Goods
IREX
Airline Transport Pilot [Subjects] [Ignore the advice from those people that want to see a potential job before undertaking their study, they will be left way behind, if not already]
HUET
Chemical Licence
NVFR [insure this is in your basic training, check with your training institution]
3. Look at your selected school as a potential employer, and never ever forget that. Dress, talk and act for your entire time there as a potential valuable employee. They will notice, I assure you.
4. Select where you want to go in the future? What type of work do you want to do? And aim at those/that company. Find out their major tasks, personnel and entry requirements and work towards those.
Ask for a face to face 5 minute chat with their front line employer, normally the Chief Pilot.
Listen and take their advice, dont try to be a smart ass, these guys have seen it all before.
5. Good luck.
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dzeroplus: So uhh, how does one learn on them then?
A Bell 47 is similar to a KH4 and the transition is not that big a difference, as I mentioned there is no provision for dual controls in a KH4 and therefore you cannot fulfill the CAO (Air Regs) endorsement requirements.
There would not be many instructors willing to sit in an aircraft without duals and I am certainly not one of them!
Also, what's the advantage of training on two types of aircraft, apart from getting more hours logged on one? Or is that it.
You can save yourself a bit of money conducting your training in two different types of aircraft, as long as your not scratching to save the basic $48,000 for a CPL on only one type.
If you have a spare $3000 you can obtain 20 hours for a much lower cost outlay. If you are interested, send me a PM and I will give you the breakdown.
Most students whom have a extra $3000 will conduct their training on two types.
I also must agree totally with High Nr, Spot On!
A Bell 47 is similar to a KH4 and the transition is not that big a difference, as I mentioned there is no provision for dual controls in a KH4 and therefore you cannot fulfill the CAO (Air Regs) endorsement requirements.
There would not be many instructors willing to sit in an aircraft without duals and I am certainly not one of them!
Also, what's the advantage of training on two types of aircraft, apart from getting more hours logged on one? Or is that it.
You can save yourself a bit of money conducting your training in two different types of aircraft, as long as your not scratching to save the basic $48,000 for a CPL on only one type.
If you have a spare $3000 you can obtain 20 hours for a much lower cost outlay. If you are interested, send me a PM and I will give you the breakdown.
Most students whom have a extra $3000 will conduct their training on two types.
I also must agree totally with High Nr, Spot On!
Mr S.,
Picking at nits, but endorsement requirements aa you quoted are for singles: 10 hrs + 15hrs ICUS for a Transport Class A twin (25hr ICUS for IFR charter). Also, ATPL(H) is required for helicopters >5700kg: not for any multi on Charter. <5700kg, charter is legal with a CPL(H)
Picking at nits, but endorsement requirements aa you quoted are for singles: 10 hrs + 15hrs ICUS for a Transport Class A twin (25hr ICUS for IFR charter). Also, ATPL(H) is required for helicopters >5700kg: not for any multi on Charter. <5700kg, charter is legal with a CPL(H)
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Number9, seems your getting some info now you changed forums.
go with the jandakot school, as you were thinking of doing, I highly recomend them.
lots of avenues into work over here........ you just have to be persistant. having cattle experiance is a definate advantage, so when you get over this way, get hold of me and I can assist you in this matter............ if the mustering road is the one you want to take.
go with the jandakot school, as you were thinking of doing, I highly recomend them.
lots of avenues into work over here........ you just have to be persistant. having cattle experiance is a definate advantage, so when you get over this way, get hold of me and I can assist you in this matter............ if the mustering road is the one you want to take.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Help please
I am about to recommend a particular youngster to start flying.
Whilst I have my own favorite school to suggest to this chap, I just need to review the costs.
I am particularly interested in the hourly instructing costs of a R22, H300 and B206B in the following states:
NSW
VIC
QLD
WA
I am not after the name of a particular school, however please feel free to PM me with that info.
Can anyone help with this basic info???......
Thanks, Red
Whilst I have my own favorite school to suggest to this chap, I just need to review the costs.
I am particularly interested in the hourly instructing costs of a R22, H300 and B206B in the following states:
NSW
VIC
QLD
WA
I am not after the name of a particular school, however please feel free to PM me with that info.
Can anyone help with this basic info???......
Thanks, Red
Join Date: May 2003
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Mr Selfish: Okay great, thanks for that. Makes a little more sense now!
High Nr: Erm, I'm not sure what you mean by "down south". You mean anywhere that's not in the top-end? And I resent that remark, I have many a suit & tie. Thanks for the info on the qualifications, there are a couple I hadn't heard of - HUET & chemical. I'll have to look up what HUET means! I was certainly planning on getting IREX & NVFR though.
And definitely, I would certainly treat my school as a potential employer, indeed hopefully they'll know exactly what skills I have & what I need training on. In terms of point #4, though, I think I need to do more research as to what's actually out there. For some reason doing oil rig support work holds a particular interest for me, so I think I'll try and find out more about that. Thanks again!
dzeroplus: Ah okay, I thought they were built from the same base design but didn't realise they were that similar. In terms of your point "saving a bit of money", I'm still a little unsure at the point you're ultimately getting at. :| I'll drop you a PM.
deeper: Great, thanks!
the wizard: Yeah, you said it. Thanks for the info re. Jandakot, I need to drop them a line and ask about a few things. I'll drop you a PM also if you don't mind?
Heliport: Thanks, I think I read one of the threads before it was merged, not sure about the other one. I'll re-read the merged one now..
High Nr: Erm, I'm not sure what you mean by "down south". You mean anywhere that's not in the top-end? And I resent that remark, I have many a suit & tie.
Thanks for the info on the qualifications, there are a couple I hadn't heard of - HUET & chemical. I'll have to look up what HUET means! I was certainly planning on getting IREX & NVFR though. And definitely, I would certainly treat my school as a potential employer, indeed hopefully they'll know exactly what skills I have & what I need training on. In terms of point #4, though, I think I need to do more research as to what's actually out there. For some reason doing oil rig support work holds a particular interest for me, so I think I'll try and find out more about that. Thanks again!
dzeroplus: Ah okay, I thought they were built from the same base design but didn't realise they were that similar. In terms of your point "saving a bit of money", I'm still a little unsure at the point you're ultimately getting at. :| I'll drop you a PM.
deeper: Great, thanks!
the wizard: Yeah, you said it.
Thanks for the info re. Jandakot, I need to drop them a line and ask about a few things. I'll drop you a PM also if you don't mind?Heliport: Thanks, I think I read one of the threads before it was merged, not sure about the other one. I'll re-read the merged one now..