Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helicopter freelance rates in Oz
Hi Folks,
Anyone out there that can enlighten me in regard what freelance rates in Australia are like for a CPL(H) (turbine) experienced pilot?
Thanking you in advance.
Nomad
Anyone out there that can enlighten me in regard what freelance rates in Australia are like for a CPL(H) (turbine) experienced pilot?
Thanking you in advance.
Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: queensland
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freelance Rates
Nomad,
Around Melbourne, freelance is about $350pd +GST.
In SE QLD, depending on the operator, about $250-350pd +GST.
As the fire season has been slow thus far, there are LOTS of freelance guys around...good luck!
Birdman.
Around Melbourne, freelance is about $350pd +GST.
In SE QLD, depending on the operator, about $250-350pd +GST.
As the fire season has been slow thus far, there are LOTS of freelance guys around...good luck!
Birdman.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can highly recomend Jandakot Helicopters for flight training. no bull****, what you see is what you get, trained many overseas pilots and generally a great bunch of blokes. You won't be promised a job, but after your all trained up and relaesed onto the unsuspecting world, Doaky will talk to whoever he knows to help you out. (if you fly like ****, he will tell you, and you won't get a licence until you can do it properly, so you always know where you stand.)
they have a website. www.jhelicopters.com.au
I draw your attention to a particular page on the site. Employment opportunities
they have a website. www.jhelicopters.com.au
I draw your attention to a particular page on the site. Employment opportunities
Last edited by the wizard of auz; 19th Jan 2004 at 03:06.
Be careful of the gloss and the glitz - and the tinted hair, capped teeth and fake suntans of the front man.
Make sure that any TIF you take has these essential elements:
1. You must fly with an instructor. A certain school in Sydney, already mentioned, has sent prospective students up with just a commercial pilot on the other stick. Not licensed or qualified to give instruction, and the wannabe cannot legally log the time.
2. You must get a full preflight briefing to explain what you are going to see, how to work the controls, what to look for.
3. The flight involves actually learning something.
4. You get a debrief on the flight.
The prebrief and debrief are just as important as the flying, but That School is famous for just slipping the next student into a warm seat with the engine still running from the previous flight. One student I heard of went for a check ride at another place, sat in the seat, and when the instructor said "Well, let's go" the student looked at the instructor and asked him if he was going to start the engine first for him, as he had never got into a cold machine before.
One thing that you will never be told by That School is the troubles they have been in with CASA - they cheated on flying hours and maintenance by pulling circuit breakers on Hobbs meters, and the private owners of cross-hired machines were not paid for the time flown. Finally trapped by one owner who saw his bird flying one day, checked Their paperwork, and saw that no flight time was recorded for that day. He installed a secret meter, found the truth, and reported them to CASA. The Chief Pilot took a walk (somewhat unfairly, the Boss was equally to blame) and That School kept going.
Next stumble was the troubled Examfax system. They were caught out helping students, another CP takes a walk (this CP mysteriously lost his log book 3 times when inspections were due.) But the Boss stayed.
There is no doubt that they are successful at recruiting and processing students, the biggest around, sell a pile of machines, but make sure you get value for what you pay.
Three pilots spring to mind - the first came from There, admitting that he knew nothing, and paid for more lessons to get up to speed. The second came as a student, with trip reports glowing with praise, and after 15 hours he was ready for solo. He was tragic, could barely hover. He couldn't pass ground school. He lodged a large sum of money with us, but we gave it back to him and suggested he try another career. He went back to That Place, had an 85% theory pass within 3 weeks, and a CPL shortly thereafter. Saw him after that putting full fuel and four golfers and four sets of clubs in a 206 and staggering off the airfield for a landing 3000' up the hills.
The third held an instructors rating, but when I asked him if he wanted to do some instructing work he said "But my rating is only a (company deleted) rating - we didn't fly half the trips, and when I got to the nominated number of hours, He stopped my course and signed me up. I don't really know how to instruct."
Sorry, but That School doesn't impress.
Make sure that any TIF you take has these essential elements:
1. You must fly with an instructor. A certain school in Sydney, already mentioned, has sent prospective students up with just a commercial pilot on the other stick. Not licensed or qualified to give instruction, and the wannabe cannot legally log the time.
2. You must get a full preflight briefing to explain what you are going to see, how to work the controls, what to look for.
3. The flight involves actually learning something.
4. You get a debrief on the flight.
The prebrief and debrief are just as important as the flying, but That School is famous for just slipping the next student into a warm seat with the engine still running from the previous flight. One student I heard of went for a check ride at another place, sat in the seat, and when the instructor said "Well, let's go" the student looked at the instructor and asked him if he was going to start the engine first for him, as he had never got into a cold machine before.
One thing that you will never be told by That School is the troubles they have been in with CASA - they cheated on flying hours and maintenance by pulling circuit breakers on Hobbs meters, and the private owners of cross-hired machines were not paid for the time flown. Finally trapped by one owner who saw his bird flying one day, checked Their paperwork, and saw that no flight time was recorded for that day. He installed a secret meter, found the truth, and reported them to CASA. The Chief Pilot took a walk (somewhat unfairly, the Boss was equally to blame) and That School kept going.
Next stumble was the troubled Examfax system. They were caught out helping students, another CP takes a walk (this CP mysteriously lost his log book 3 times when inspections were due.) But the Boss stayed.
There is no doubt that they are successful at recruiting and processing students, the biggest around, sell a pile of machines, but make sure you get value for what you pay.
Three pilots spring to mind - the first came from There, admitting that he knew nothing, and paid for more lessons to get up to speed. The second came as a student, with trip reports glowing with praise, and after 15 hours he was ready for solo. He was tragic, could barely hover. He couldn't pass ground school. He lodged a large sum of money with us, but we gave it back to him and suggested he try another career. He went back to That Place, had an 85% theory pass within 3 weeks, and a CPL shortly thereafter. Saw him after that putting full fuel and four golfers and four sets of clubs in a 206 and staggering off the airfield for a landing 3000' up the hills.
The third held an instructors rating, but when I asked him if he wanted to do some instructing work he said "But my rating is only a (company deleted) rating - we didn't fly half the trips, and when I got to the nominated number of hours, He stopped my course and signed me up. I don't really know how to instruct."
Sorry, but That School doesn't impress.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stunty, I recently changed schools at Bankstown.
I wont metion the previous school but Im now trainging at Helicopter Traning and Transport (HTT).
I was a big descision for me but I have been very happy after making the change. The instructors are all extemely professional, the ships are all new, and the price is near the cheapest around.
One of the things that impressed me the most is the lack of BS. They are up fornt, and honest.
Even if youre not flying that day its no prob to swing by to get some help with the theory.
They are a new school and dont have a website yet, but you can email them at, [email protected] . Im sure he'll get back to you.
Good luck
I wont metion the previous school but Im now trainging at Helicopter Traning and Transport (HTT).
I was a big descision for me but I have been very happy after making the change. The instructors are all extemely professional, the ships are all new, and the price is near the cheapest around.
One of the things that impressed me the most is the lack of BS. They are up fornt, and honest.
Even if youre not flying that day its no prob to swing by to get some help with the theory.
They are a new school and dont have a website yet, but you can email them at, [email protected] . Im sure he'll get back to you.
Good luck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helicopter Transport and Training are the newest training school at Bankstown Airport.
For anyone considering learning to fly or for people who already have a PPL or CPL they are well worth calling or dropping in to see.
They have a New R44 Raven 2 avalable for private hire as well as new R22's.
Very Professional and willing to spend as much time as needed with the customer.
Best of luck choosing a school.
Welcome to the forum, HeliSean.
You've given this new school a plug, but you don't say how you know it's good?
Heliport
For anyone considering learning to fly or for people who already have a PPL or CPL they are well worth calling or dropping in to see.
They have a New R44 Raven 2 avalable for private hire as well as new R22's.
Very Professional and willing to spend as much time as needed with the customer.
Best of luck choosing a school.
Welcome to the forum, HeliSean.
You've given this new school a plug, but you don't say how you know it's good?
Heliport
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ascend charlie, just so I'm clear on this, all the above post was in relation to the Sydney school, right?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't even contemplate Blue Tongue Helicopter School...... I trained there, No 1 training but no "after sales service"....no help what so all getting a job!!! They will gladly take your money
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: landdownunder
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why is it that people think just because you spend a fortune with a flying school it is thier reponsibilty to help you find a job, We are all big boys , why dont people just stand on there own feet and stop thinking the world owes them a living because they hold a CPL.
Perhaps some of these guys that moan they cant find a flying job arent worth employing, after all if they are not motivated enough to get off thier arse and find a job themselves instead of relying on somebody else to do it are they really going to manage to operate an aircraft commercially in a dog eat dog enviroment?
A hungry dog hunts better!
Perhaps some of these guys that moan they cant find a flying job arent worth employing, after all if they are not motivated enough to get off thier arse and find a job themselves instead of relying on somebody else to do it are they really going to manage to operate an aircraft commercially in a dog eat dog enviroment?
A hungry dog hunts better!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"No 1 training but no "after sales service"....no help what so all getting a job!!! They will gladly take your money"
Universitys also take your money! you get a degree and do they give everyone a job after they complete thier courses in accounting or whatever.? dont think so.
Training schools are under no obligation whatsoever to help you look for work or even give you work, if they are well think yourself one of the luck ones.
While im bitching!!....does anyone know any other industry where you spend 40k to get a licence and then to get hours or Experience some companies pay the rookie pilot a big fat 0 , and a thanks mate but you need the experience line!! it bugs me because i went through it.
im sure some of you out there are trades people, when you first started your apprenticeship did they pay you wages? i think most people would say yes.
Ok ive finnished whinging!!
Universitys also take your money! you get a degree and do they give everyone a job after they complete thier courses in accounting or whatever.? dont think so.
Training schools are under no obligation whatsoever to help you look for work or even give you work, if they are well think yourself one of the luck ones.
While im bitching!!....does anyone know any other industry where you spend 40k to get a licence and then to get hours or Experience some companies pay the rookie pilot a big fat 0 , and a thanks mate but you need the experience line!! it bugs me because i went through it.
im sure some of you out there are trades people, when you first started your apprenticeship did they pay you wages? i think most people would say yes.
Ok ive finnished whinging!!
I agree with Granny.
It is impossible for any training school to guarantee a student a job, without knowing them. However, It is logical PR for a training school (that can offer employment to low hour pilots that have trained with them only) to advertise that in order to encourage students to sign with them. The basis of any advertising is to dangle the carrot as hard as you can isn't it?
In selecting a school I would concentrate on their reputation, how long they have been established, how busy they are (a busy restaurant is usually a good one), and the experience and personality of their instructors. You must meet them first and sus them out, their ego, patience, etc. In terms of their experience, don't just look at their total time and background, but also their instructional time and whether they are grade 1 or grade 2 instructors. And if they can also offer employment afterwards, then look at that as a bbq bonus.
You will carry your initial training throughout your career as a pilot to some degree. Training is planting a seed, and you want to grow a good tomato plant from that and not a dodgy one eh? I have done BFR's for experienced pilots who have done things in strange ways "coz that's how I was taught how to do it", and never really questioned or understood the method.
In short, I reckon you should pick a school for it's quality of training and staff, not just whether they MAY me able to give you a job afterwards.
If your a capable, keen and committed low hour pilot who isn't a complete gonzo, you'll get work, it's just a question of time and maybe a bit of luck. Your first job relies almost totally on your attitude anyway I reckon, and there's a whole lot of operators out there that aren't also training schools.
It is impossible for any training school to guarantee a student a job, without knowing them. However, It is logical PR for a training school (that can offer employment to low hour pilots that have trained with them only) to advertise that in order to encourage students to sign with them. The basis of any advertising is to dangle the carrot as hard as you can isn't it?
In selecting a school I would concentrate on their reputation, how long they have been established, how busy they are (a busy restaurant is usually a good one), and the experience and personality of their instructors. You must meet them first and sus them out, their ego, patience, etc. In terms of their experience, don't just look at their total time and background, but also their instructional time and whether they are grade 1 or grade 2 instructors. And if they can also offer employment afterwards, then look at that as a bbq bonus.
You will carry your initial training throughout your career as a pilot to some degree. Training is planting a seed, and you want to grow a good tomato plant from that and not a dodgy one eh? I have done BFR's for experienced pilots who have done things in strange ways "coz that's how I was taught how to do it", and never really questioned or understood the method.
In short, I reckon you should pick a school for it's quality of training and staff, not just whether they MAY me able to give you a job afterwards.
If your a capable, keen and committed low hour pilot who isn't a complete gonzo, you'll get work, it's just a question of time and maybe a bit of luck. Your first job relies almost totally on your attitude anyway I reckon, and there's a whole lot of operators out there that aren't also training schools.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: US of A
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coyote,
Thanks for the seed you planted in my head a few years ago, I am now bald, must have been a dodgey one eh?
Just try to get to my wedding in July so I can repay you.
Later GD
Thanks for the seed you planted in my head a few years ago, I am now bald, must have been a dodgey one eh?
Just try to get to my wedding in July so I can repay you.
Later GD
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jobs in Australia
Im looking at working in Australia.
I have UK ATPL(H)+IR, instructor ratings with 5,500+ hours, military background, in late 40s, with a wide range of experiance.
Could someone please advise me of what sort of opportunties might be available to me, would my age go against me and what do I need to do to convert my UK license to an Aus one.
Many thanks.
The Bloke
I have UK ATPL(H)+IR, instructor ratings with 5,500+ hours, military background, in late 40s, with a wide range of experiance.
Could someone please advise me of what sort of opportunties might be available to me, would my age go against me and what do I need to do to convert my UK license to an Aus one.
Many thanks.
The Bloke