Job prospects after modular ATPL (UK)? Loan or secure a job?

[alexeyAP]

Hello lads, I'm a year or two away from leaving secondary school here in the UK and to be honest I've become infatuated with aviation over the past few years. I would love nothing more than to spend my working hours in a cockpit as opposed to the traditional 9-5 and all the pilots I've spoken to agree wholeheartedly that it is one of the best jobs that one could possibly work. The way I see it integrated is prohibitively expensive while modular is more "grindy" and allows your experience to build up (which should be better for jobseeking right?!). A few questions:

• Would you recommend going to uni, getting a secure and well-paying job and saving for a few years then starting training or going to uni and taking out a loan straight off the bat? I appreciate that financial stability may be something that employers are looking for in a candidate, and it would also allow me to get some real experience of industry before starting pilot training. I was considering going to uni for software engineering/computing science, civil engineering, electrical engineering or even aerospace engineering and getting a job in those fields. (I would also hate the idea of an outstanding loan hovering above my head while I complete my studies).
• Having got your ATPL, is finding a job difficult? I have heard (or read rather) horror stories of people floating about for years after securing their license looking for a job only to fly bizjets in the end.
• Would UK airlines such as easyjet ever even consider hiring modular graduates or do they hire exclusively from their cadet programs? (Again the cost + high risk + low experience/occupational mobility makes this route very very unattractive for me.)

Thanks in advance.

[ManFlex40]

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Hello lads, I'm a year or two away from leaving secondary school here in the UK and to be honest I've become infatuated with aviation over the past few years. I would love nothing more than to spend my working hours in a cockpit as opposed to the traditional 9-5 and all the pilots I've spoken to agree wholeheartedly that it is one of the best jobs that one could possibly work. The way I see it integrated is prohibitively expensive while modular is more "grindy" and allows your experience to build up (which should be better for jobseeking right?!). A few questions:

• Would you recommend going to uni, getting a secure and well-paying job and saving for a few years then starting training or going to uni and taking out a loan straight off the bat? I appreciate that financial stability may be something that employers are looking for in a candidate, and it would also allow me to get some real experience of industry before starting pilot training. I was considering going to uni for software engineering/computing science, civil engineering, electrical engineering or even aerospace engineering and getting a job in those fields. (I would also hate the idea of an outstanding loan hovering above my head while I complete my studies).
• Having got your ATPL, is finding a job difficult? I have heard (or read rather) horror stories of people floating about for years after securing their license looking for a job only to fly bizjets in the end.
• Would UK airlines such as easyjet ever even consider hiring modular graduates or do they hire exclusively from their cadet programs? (Again the cost + high risk + low experience/occupational mobility) makes this route very very unattractive for me.

Thanks in advance.

I’ll answer this in three parts.

1.) Is it worth getting a job/ going to uni before starting flight training? Absolutely. Not only will life experience look good on your future CV, you will learn more about yourself than you could ever believe. I worked for 4 years in a variety of settings after leaving sixth form, working in a fast food kitchen to operations manager at a large logistics company to setting up my own business, make the most of your time ‘before’ aviation. It also means that, whilst you’re studying down the modular route, you’re able to earn money and save it for when you need it most. In my case, I spent my weeks working and weekends hour building, whilst saving money for the stage I’m at now, full time ATPL/CPL/IR. That is assuming you wish to do it ‘full time’ modular, you can always work alongside distance learning/weekend CPL lessons!

2.) Is finding a job difficult for modular ATPL holders? No… but also yes. There are two predominant factors at play when it comes to this bit, A.) where you did your training and/or B.) how good you are at networking. Now, it’s common knowledge that recruiters like continuity of training, that is, doing your CPL and IR (perhaps even the additional bits like your ATPL’s, MCC and UPRT) with the same training provider. There are of course many exceptions to this when the market is good, as it is currently, with Ryanair, Loganair and Jet 2 all hiring friends of mine who have completed their training at 2,3 and in one case 4 different training providers. However, there are those jobs out there that are only accessible through going to the right flight school and having a good network in the industry. For example, 3 well known ATO’s have all recently sent modular cadets to easyJet, and at recent recruitment talks, British Airways will be hiring modular cadets for their Euro Flyer winter recruitment.

That being said, here’s a small but distinguished list of where modular guys and girls have ended up this year from my current ATO and friends from others and how they got there;

DHL (school placement)
Wizz Air (open applications on their website)
Ryanair (open applications on their website)
easyJet (school placement)
Loganair (networking- send off an email to HR and get lucky, combined with some school placement)
Emerald Airlines (networking)
West Atlantic (networking)
Jet 2 (PA scheme)
Eastern Airways (networking)
TUI (networking)



3.) Do airlines like easyJet hire exclusively from their integrated partner schools?

No. Again, I am studying full time ‘combined modular’ at a well known ATO whose head of recruitment previously sent modular cadets to airlines like easyJet from a previous ATO and is continuing this today at our ATO. Airlines couldn’t care less what training route you took- so long as A.) your ATPL average is good (BA have quoted 85% average with max 1 retake) and B.) you pass your CPL/IR first series (preferably first time).

Drop me a PM if you have any questions

[alexeyAP]

Hi manflex,
Regarding no. 1, I agree that real world experience would be something more valuable for me than anything money can buy. Even testing the waters and establishing connections in other fields (mostly engineering like I mentioned before) would be a great way to build up a 'Plan B' in case aviation doesn't work out. I think that I will take your advice and go find myself a job after sixth form (although I was hoping to start working some retail jobs in S5 (Year 12 in England) and save up some money on the side), the advantages are innumerable. I have also investigated the University Air Squadrons which are run by the RAF (as well as the gliding scholarship which is available from 16 years old) and it seems like a decent way to get hands on with aircraft while doing a degree at uni. Working airside ops at my local field (EDI) might be a shout also? What do you think?

With no. 2, I was looking around at flight schools in my area (Edinburgh) and unfortunately one of my top picks (Tayside) just entered administration a few months ago. I'll keep nosing around but by the time I actually start training things could be very different. Do you think it's better to do a 'semi-integrated' (i.e. save up for the full cost and do modular in one big burst) or learn part-time on the side? My one concern with the latter is that it could take infinitely longer if training is only confined to weekends and holidays as opposed to doing it full time, especially with things like cheaper hour-building opportunities in the States (not like you can commute to Florida for a day or two!).

my current ATO

If you wouldn't mind, could you tell me the name of your ATO? You can PM me if it suits.

​​​​​​​easyJet (school placement)

By 'school placement', do you mean the ATPL school refers students to EZY? Or it's like a tagged integrated program? And do they type rate with EZY as well?

​​​​​​​TUI (networking)

Just a month or two ago I read about Tui offering training which is then bonded for a few years on something like a 25k salary, would you endorse this type of training or are there hidden risks involved? Many people on this forum advise to steer well clear of anything bonded but to be honest it seems like an attractive offer. At the same time, if it's too good to be true, it probably is. And money is not an issue; I would happily accept 25k for a few years if it meant being paid to fly around 737s.

​​​​​​​Airlines couldn’t care less what training route you took- so long as A.) your ATPL average is good

That's good to hear, hopefully if I put my head down and study study study I can eventually get to the happy place

Many thanks for your reply, it's certainly been very helpful. Best of luck in your studies

[Beaker_]

It's also sensible to have a trade/skill to fall back on for the bad times. You'll probably read how cyclical the aviation industry is and a fallback skill/trade would be sensible.

Based on nothing other than my own observation, I'd suggest electrician or plumber... It's almost impossible to find one that's available and the ones that are can pretty much make up their price or pick and choose jobs and people will pay it!

[alexeyAP]

Beaker,
Thanks for the advice, I've definitely thought about how unsafe it would be (job security-wise) to go straight from school to training especially with a big ~50k loan over my head!

a fallback skill/trade would be sensible

Do you think something like airport ops or aerospace engineering is as unstable as the piloting market? After all fedex have to deliver their parcels somehow. I've thought about having a plan B job that's still related to aviation so I would have a good passion for it. A few months ago the head software engineer at Leonardo (one of the manufacturers of the Eurofighter Typhoon, their offices in Edinburgh design radar tech) gave a brief talk at my school and I think that it's a fairly decent plan B/initial job. He told us that once people join Leonardo they often stay there for their whole working lives and I believe it. I'm passionate about computing science also and I think it be a decent job to write code that eventually gets put in a fighter jet

​​​​​​​electrician or plumber

As I mentioned above I'm considering doing a degree possibly in electrical engineering, I've looked at electrician/tradesman as a career option also. However I'm keeping in mind that at least for the first few years any jobs I invest my time in are mostly a means to an end to fund my training. It's definitely food for thought.

[VariablePitchP]

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Hello lads, I'm a year or two away from leaving secondary school here in the UK and to be honest I've become infatuated with aviation over the past few years. I would love nothing more than to spend my working hours in a cockpit as opposed to the traditional 9-5 and all the pilots I've spoken to agree wholeheartedly that it is one of the best jobs that one could possibly work. The way I see it integrated is prohibitively expensive while modular is more "grindy" and allows your experience to build up (which should be better for jobseeking right?!). A few questions:

• Would you recommend going to uni, getting a secure and well-paying job and saving for a few years then starting training or going to uni and taking out a loan straight off the bat? I appreciate that financial stability may be something that employers are looking for in a candidate, and it would also allow me to get some real experience of industry before starting pilot training. I was considering going to uni for software engineering/computing science, civil engineering, electrical engineering or even aerospace engineering and getting a job in those fields. (I would also hate the idea of an outstanding loan hovering above my head while I complete my studies).
• Having got your ATPL, is finding a job difficult? I have heard (or read rather) horror stories of people floating about for years after securing their license looking for a job only to fly bizjets in the end.
• Would UK airlines such as easyjet ever even consider hiring modular graduates or do they hire exclusively from their cadet programs? (Again the cost + high risk + low experience/occupational mobility) makes this route very very unattractive for me.

Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately the decision is often out of your hands. You talk about ‘getting a loan’. Bluntly, do your parents have a spare £100K in the bank, or are willing to remortgage the home to get access to the £100K?

If not, you’re going modular and your training will progress at the speed of cash if you wish to do it straight out of uni, or you’ll be saving for a long time to attempt the integrated route. If it were me in that case, Modular alongside work 100% of the time.

Integrated schools are very good at advertising, having been on this site I guarantee your instagram and Facebook feeds will be littered with adverts from CAE, L3 etc with models in their gleaming white Pilot shirts with gold braid up to their eyeballs. It’s all spin. Finish the training and all that matters is that piece of paper.

Keep at it, it’s the best job in the world. Do uni though, best three years of your life, the life experiences will be incredibly useful, not just for the training, but your life generally.

[alexeyAP]

VariablePitchP,

do your parents have a spare £100K in the bank, or are willing to remortgage the home to get access to the £100K

Frankly no, and nor would I want to put the financial strain on my family to advance my own career interests.

If it were me in that case, Modular alongside work 100% of the time.

Is there a disadvantage to working, saving on the side, then doing modular full time? The way I see it I would rather be devoted to one thing at a time (plus the ~4.5% interest is nice too )

​​​​​​​Integrated schools are very good at advertising, having been on this site I guarantee your instagram and Facebook feeds will be littered with adverts from CAE, L3 etc with models in their gleaming white Pilot shirts with good braid up to their eyeballs. It’s all spin. Finish the training and all that matters is that piece of paper.

Unfortunately you're right, all it took was one search for "integrated vs modular" and suddenly I'm up to my neck in adverts that look like something you could find in an episode of Mr Bean. Especially nowadays with many ATOs having good links to the airlines (see ManFlex above) is there any advantage whatsoever to doing it integrated? Genuinely interested as for 2x the price it doesn't seem like a lot of bang for the buck.

​​​​​​​Do uni though, best three years of your life, the life experiences will be incredibly useful, not just for the training, but your life generally.

That's the plan. Even better, uni's free in Scotland, so no debt as far as that's concerned. As I mentioned in a reply above (if it went through) there's also the university air squadrons which I think are good aviation experience while studying.

Cheers for the help, means a lot.

[Peter Ahonsi]

Go to university and go Modular

I recommend going to university, if you can study a degree which doesn’t relate to aviation directly. But ensure you at least have some interest in it. Some would argue university is a waste of money and do a trade job, however I think it gives you more options job wise personally.

I recommend Modular ( pay as you go) for each rating. Get your class 1 medical first before paying for any training. NEVER pay large amounts upfront for training.

I personally did a MSc in Building Surveying and i am currently working as a Project Manager in construction to help fund my training. I also work two delivery jobs on the side. I got my ppl via the modular route and i am hour building on the weekends.

It is a long hard road and sometimes you question yourself, however keep at it and just remember others have been in your position who went modular and made the dream come true. It might take several years however patience and perseverance is key.

Safe skies Captain.

[VariablePitchP]

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

VariablePitchP,

Frankly no, and nor would I want to put the financial strain on my family to advance my own career interests.


Is there a disadvantage to working, saving on the side, then doing modular full time? The way I see it I would rather be devoted to one thing at a time (plus the ~4.5% interest is nice too )


Unfortunately you're right, all it took was one search for "integrated vs modular" and suddenly I'm up to my neck in adverts that look like something you could in an episode of Mr Bean. Especially nowadays with many ATOs having good links to the airlines (see ManFlex above) is there any advantage whatsoever to doing it integrated? Genuinely interested as for 2x the price it doesn't seem like a lot of bang for the buck.


That's the plan. Even better, uni's free in Scotland, so no debt as far as that's concerned. As I mentioned in a reply above (if it went through) there's also the university air squadrons which I think are good aviation experience while studying.

Cheers for the help, means a lot.

You’re welcome! Scottish uni? Then it’s an absolute no brainer if it’s free.

Just to make it absolutely clear, without backing from your parents, you’re not getting a loan. You might be able to borrow £5K but you haven’t got any security so they won’t lend you the money. Your only options are pay as you go, or save up and do it all. The latter is just adding 12 to 18 months and giving life more opportunities to get in the way and derail you.

Will it be a pretty grim 3 to 4 years of working full time whilst living at home / in a box flat on beans and rice whilst you spend every penny on training? Yes. Will it be worth it when you’re sat flying an airliner a decade from now, debt free? Also yes.

[Beaker_]

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Beaker,
Do you think something like airport ops or aerospace engineering is as unstable as the piloting market?

I forgot to mention when I suggested a trade is when considering a backup career, it's good to have something you can stop and start without it looking too bad on your CV. If you're a self-employed tradesman, you don't need to really worry about what a recruiter is going to think. I think you'd have no shortage of work if you were in a "in demand" trade, especially if you have mates in the business as they'll always be looking for good subcontractors.

IT can be a good field where plenty of companies will recruit people on 6-12 month contracts just to get a job done so perhaps worth considering. It's a very varied field though, so certainly worth researching to see which skill sets favour the contractors lifestyle.

Of course all of the above mentioned positions would probably need you to brush up on latest developments, regulations etc. before you pick up your tools after you've had a long break.

Definitely double-check for yourself against what I've suggested. These things are mostly based on what I've seen and there may be things I'm wrong about it haven't considered, but in my opinion could be a sensible route to go down.

Also, just to echo what has already been said. Don't take out loans for this. Do your PPL and some hour building alongside full-time work. It's an enjoyable hobby in itself and no need to rush it. When you come to the ground school and professional part of your training, you can decide whether to do this alongside your job (possibly part-time) or take some time off and do those bits as quickly as possible. If you live frugally and earn yourself a reasonable amount, it should certainly be possible. If you work in a trade self-employed, you might be able to consider making your own hours up. i.e. Work more in the winter to maximize your earnings and take more days off in the summer to get more flying done!

You sound like a sensible guy who's willing to listen to advice so I wish you the best of luck.

[rudestuff]

It's always better to have a degree than not. But remember that a degree takes 3 years. In that same time period you could have a fATPL. Getting the first job is probably the hardest of all and a lot of it is down to having the good fortune to finish at the right time.

Most people become a pilot, then choose their company (or have the choice made for them). But there is another option: Play the long game by joining an airline then becoming a pilot. Take a ground role preferably in flight ops then work and save while building hours. If you live at home and maybe take a second job you could save half the money (£25k ish) in 2 years and easily borrow the other half. When they start hiring cadets if you've kept your nose clean you'll be a shoe-in for an assessment.
Regarding loans - it definitely IS better to borrow rather than save as long as you can comfortably afford the repayments. It gets you where you want to be quicker. If you don't take the loan and instead save up - you could potentially shorten your flying career by 2 years. What does a senior Captain/TRI/TRE make in 2 years?

[hobbit1983]

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Hello lads

Try again.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

all the pilots I've spoken to agree wholeheartedly that it is one of the best jobs that one could possibly work.

Job, yes. Mostly. The career, however, is terrible. Be prepared to be made redundant on more than one occasion.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Would you recommend going to uni, getting a secure and well-paying job and saving for a few years then starting training or going to uni and taking out a loan straight off the bat?

If you really, really, want to fly for a job then you do not need a degree. You may be well advised to have a backup career/means of income, but this does not necessarily mean you need a degree to do so.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

I appreciate that financial stability may be something that employers are looking for in a candidate

Several employers are probably looking for your ability to pay for a type rating.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

it would also allow me to get some real experience of industry before starting pilot training

A degree will not (mostly). It is an academic qualification; the real world is very different.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

I was considering going to uni for software engineering/computing science, civil engineering, electrical engineering or even aerospace engineering and getting a job in those fields.

As far as I know (not qualified in any of those fields, but I know people who are), software/computer engineering is a good bet these days, aerospace engineering is probably a harder career.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

(I would also hate the idea of an outstanding loan hovering above my head while I complete my studies).

Unless you are lucky enough to be able to pay for £100k of pilot training outright, then you are going to hate pilot training...and getting a loan for that.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Having got your ATPL, is finding a job difficult?

Yes. And you won't get an ATPL until you've done a good amount of flying for an operator. You get a CPL. Also known anecdotally as a 'frozen' ATPL, but this is not an official term.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

I have heard (or read rather) horror stories of people floating about for years after securing their license looking for a job only to fly bizjets in the end.

And just WTF is so bad about flying bizjets for a living, young wannabe?

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Would UK airlines such as easyjet ever even consider hiring modular graduates or do they hire exclusively from their cadet programs?

As far as I know, cadet programs only. This may have changed.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

(Again the cost + high risk + low experience/occupational mobility) makes this route very very unattractive for me.

Welcome to aviation. This will be true no matter what you fly.

[hobbit1983]

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Frankly no, and nor would I want to put the financial strain on my family to advance my own career interests.

You may have to. You won't be able to get a loan for the entire training costs. Your options are (as far as I can tell):

save up and fund £100k

get your parents to remortgage

The military is both competitive and also will probably be able to tell you are after a flying qualification. It will also take a decade or more. There are very few, if any, full scholarships in 2023 or the foreseeable future. Over the past twenty years, I have encountered/can think of precisely three. One was for one person a year, one was for just one person (and was an in-house/not advertised deal) and the other was by EasyJet; but only for 6 female pilots. As far as I know, none are still avalialbe.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

Is there a disadvantage to working, saving on the side, then doing modular full time? The way I see it I would rather be devoted to one thing at a time (plus the ~4.5% interest is nice too )

Yes. It will take you a very long time and you will probably struggle financially. It's also a slightly crazy financial decision. If you had a spare £100k, it is a risky investment to invest in flying training. You have absolutely no guarantee of a job at the end of it. Be warned.

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

is there any advantage whatsoever to doing it integrated? Genuinely interested as for 2x the price it doesn't seem like a lot of bang for the buck.

You traditionally have access to more employment opportunities with airlines, some exclusively. Read around on this forum for more info. There's plenty of it.

[alexeyAP]

Peter,

a degree which doesn’t relate to aviation directly

Is there any downside to completing, say, a BEng in aerospace in uni as opposed to a completely different field? I am currently very lucky to have my options open to most engineering fields and I'm still considering something aviation related. Thanks for your insight, best of luck to you in your aviation journey.


VariablePitchP,

Then it’s an absolute no brainer if it’s free.

Absolutely, uni provides so many opportunities not only academically but also in aviation that it's hard to resist.

Just to make it absolutely clear, without backing from your parents, you’re not getting a loan

I think that if I am smart with my money and work a relatively lucrative job then a loan will not be required. As I said before I absolutely hate the idea of having to repay a loan on top of the pressure to do well in the exams so it would probably for the best if I saved then paid.

Will it be a pretty grim 3 to 4 years of working full time whilst living at home / in a box flat on beans and rice whilst you spend every penny on training? Yes. Will it be worth it when you’re sat flying an airliner a decade from now, debt free? Also yes.

That's the dream . All I can do is have faith that my hard work will pay off.


Beaker,

If you're a self-employed tradesman, you don't need to really worry about what a recruiter is going to think. I think you'd have no shortage of work if you were in a "in demand" trade, especially if you have mates in the business as they'll always be looking for good subcontractors.

That's fair enough although good money will obviously be important when I come to looking for different fields to get into. I'll research trades more though.

Don't take out loans for this. Do your PPL and some hour building alongside full-time work. It's an enjoyable hobby in itself and no need to rush it.

Absolutely, I think it will probably be better for my motivation if I treat it like an interest rather than a career, at least for the PPL part.

​​​​​​​You sound like a sensible guy who's willing to listen to advice so I wish you the best of luck.

Cheers, fingers crossed the airlines think so too


rudestuff,

​​​​​​​you could save half the money (£25k ish) in 2 years and easily borrow the other half

I think I would struggle to borrow 25k without collateral and would probably struggle even more to pay it off in the event that I cannot secure a job after training. Working in flight ops is definitely a shout though, I'll look into that.

​​​​​​​you could potentially shorten your flying career by 2 years

At this point, going to uni, getting a 'real' job, saving, and training, I'll probably find myself in the right-hand seat of an airliner no sooner than 30 so 2 years is no biggie especially if that means having 0 debt at the end of it.
Thanks for the advice.


hobbit,

​​​​​​​Several employers are probably looking for your ability to pay for a type rating.

Are you sure? The easyjet pilots (both FOs and Capt. when I've had the chance) that I've spoken to tell me that typically easyjet will type rate them as well. Then again almost all of them joined as integrated cadets so I could be wrong.

​​​​​​​A degree will not (mostly). It is an academic qualification; the real world is very different.

I think you misunderstood; after I get a degree I can go and find a job related to that degree and build experience in the industry/make connections where I can.

​​​​​​​You may be well advised to have a backup career/means of income

My plan is to get a degree in possibly an engineering field or go to college as a tradesman then use that career to save money and do flight training on the side or save my 50-60k and do the modular in one go.

​​​​​​​software/computer engineering

From what I've read, sysadmins for large companies get paid obscene amounts of money just because they handle sensitive data for their employers. Might be worth looking into.

​​​​​​​Unless you are lucky enough to be able to pay for £100k of pilot training outright

Well the plan is to pay for 50k of it outright through savings, yes.
Thanks for the reply anyhow.
​​​​​​​

[happyjack]

[QUOTE]I have heard (or read rather) horror stories of people floating about for years after securing their license looking for a job only to fly bizjets in the end./QUOTE]

WOW! That is a statement and a half!

I worked as an "only Bizjet pilot" for many years until I finally, after breaking the mould to get there, broke into Airline flying. 4 years and 3 airlines later I was sick of being abused, utterly bored at work flying back and forth to the same boring easy places and underpaid so went back to being "only a Bizjet pilot". 'Now retired but have experiences and seen places no airline pilot would ever get near to dreaming of, and earning more doing it.' Meeting every famous name you can think of and having NO destination I can think of missing from my wanabees. But you think Ryanair would be more desirable? Think again man!

[CaptSackJarrow]

Originally Posted by ManFlex40

3.) Do airlines like easyJet hire exclusively from their integrated partner schools?

No. Again, I am studying full time ‘combined modular’ at a well known ATO whose head of recruitment previously sent modular cadets to airlines like easyJet from a previous ATO and is continuing this today at our ATO. Airlines couldn’t care less what training route you took- so long as A.) your ATPL average is good (BA have quoted 85% average with max 1 retake) and B.) you pass your CPL/IR first series (preferably first time).

Drop me a PM if you have any questions

Great summary, would just like to add the conversation I've had with head of departments at EasyJet is that they only recruit through MPL / CAE / L3, not necessarily just integrated but you need them on your training records. How true this may be is open to interpretation, but it was from a source directly related to EasyJet recruitment.

[alexeyAP]

CaptSackJarrow,

MPL / CAE / L3

By 'MPL' do you mean that you need to specifically train at a flight school which is tied to Easyjet (therefore you can only fly for them once you complete training)? I've looked at both CAE and L3 and while it does seem very commercial and robotic I'm sure it has its upsides. Most of the Easyjet pilots I've talked to have mentioned going to L3 on an integrated course. Thanks for your help.

[alexeyAP]

happyjack, apologies if I caused offense but the 'horror' of those situations is that one can be in limbo for years after completing training, and many people give up and settle for something lesser different, even if it is still flying. I hope you'll excuse my cheek before but my end goal (as was yours at one point it seems) is to go and fly for the airlines one day. Safe travels.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Originally Posted by alexeyAP

happyjack, apologies if I caused offense but the 'horror' of those situations is that one can be in limbo for years after completing training, and many people give up and settle for something lesser, even if it is still flying. I hope you'll excuse my cheek before but my end goal (as was yours at one point it seems) is to go and fly for the airlines one day. Safe travels.

Flying a Bizjet or Cargo or a Twin Otter around the Orkneys is often, believe it or not, a choice rather than a “lesser” job. Professional aviation is a very mixed career - a colleague of mine gave up a jet command at a good airline to go fly a turboprop in a very challenging environment, his comment being that he was absolutely fed up to the back teeth of sticking the autopilot in at 1000 feet, flying to Tenerife and clicking it out. Might not seem like it to you, but it’s a job, and at times a very brutal one. Covid shows you how crew can be treated when times are tough…

I fly for a major airline, one of my friends flies a Gulfstream for a private owner. He has far more time off down route than I do, far nicer destinations and the jet’s owner has on occasion paid for a ticket for his wife to join him in sunny climes. I wouldn’t want to do his job, there’s too much standby and he has to do a lot more work on the planning side than I would, it’s a lot more independent and less “shut the flight deck door and go home” than I like. Equally he would feel completely stifled in the environment I operate in, and wouldn’t get on at all with a very uniform corporate culture that I like very much as it provides me with a good work/life balance.

The best job is the one you want - and we all want different things. Flying is flying, there is nothing special about flying for an airline; many would argue quite the opposite in fact!

Edit: the reason people are being prickly is that, without any professional aviation experience, you are calling certain jobs “lesser”. That, for me at least, includes colleagues who have fought hard for an airline job, been made redundant or even decided that it is not for them, and taken to flying air ambulance flights or bizjets, are “lesser” pilots and to be looked down upon from the lofty heights of a 737-800 on its way to Faro, arguably the most vanilla job of all. The man whose job I, personally, envy most has never flown anything bigger than an Aztec (and believe it or not that’s all he ever wanted to do).

[alexeyAP]

Speedtrimfail, again I apologise, I can see how it comes across as arrogant because obviously I have next to no flying experience of my own. I'll keep my options open for corporate flying though, it does seem like a bit more fun than the airlines. Take care.