How do I cope with ATPL and University at the same time?
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How do I cope with ATPL and University at the same time?
Hey!
I'm starting my ATPL distance learning with Bristol.gs as soon as my course pack arrives for the first module (exams 1-8). I'm a bit nervous because although now's the summer holidays, in september I go back to university, so I'll be doing two courses at the same time. On top of that I'll have absolutely no time to consolidate my hours other than during the holiday so that I can move up to the next step of my professional training. To make matters worse, my girlfriend lives next to Malaga, a full 2000km away from Edinburgh where I study and she is going on to 5th year medicine. Things are quite serious between us and I really don't want lose the relationship (older guys, please don't scoff, remember what it's like to be in a serious relationship in your early-20s).
Has anyone done something similar? I know some people work and study the ATPL, but it's not the same thing because unlike students most jobs doesn't involve bringing work at home (although I'm not trying to undermine the efforts of those who undertook the task).
So my questions are 1) Is Bristol.gs distance learning as good as people say? 2) Do you have any tips to cope with it? 3) Should I focus full time on the ATPL, or make some time to consolidate at least 50h PIC so that I can start at least the MEP rating etc to eventually go onto CPL 4)Anything else to add that might change my perspective on things?
Thanks lot!
I'm starting my ATPL distance learning with Bristol.gs as soon as my course pack arrives for the first module (exams 1-8). I'm a bit nervous because although now's the summer holidays, in september I go back to university, so I'll be doing two courses at the same time. On top of that I'll have absolutely no time to consolidate my hours other than during the holiday so that I can move up to the next step of my professional training. To make matters worse, my girlfriend lives next to Malaga, a full 2000km away from Edinburgh where I study and she is going on to 5th year medicine. Things are quite serious between us and I really don't want lose the relationship (older guys, please don't scoff, remember what it's like to be in a serious relationship in your early-20s).
Has anyone done something similar? I know some people work and study the ATPL, but it's not the same thing because unlike students most jobs doesn't involve bringing work at home (although I'm not trying to undermine the efforts of those who undertook the task).
So my questions are 1) Is Bristol.gs distance learning as good as people say? 2) Do you have any tips to cope with it? 3) Should I focus full time on the ATPL, or make some time to consolidate at least 50h PIC so that I can start at least the MEP rating etc to eventually go onto CPL 4)Anything else to add that might change my perspective on things?
Thanks lot!
I put a programme like this together for "A university somewhere near London".
The only way I could see the workload making sense was to do the PPL during or prior to the first year, ATPL groundschool during the long summer vacations, starting about 2 weeks after exams, and finishing about 1 week before start of term (you need some break!).
Doing the degree and ATPL work at the same time was just never going to work. But this way, with intelligent phasing, we reckoned you could finish your groundschool exams about 3 months after graduation - but there was little slack.
Hour building could potentially be a leisure activity during the undergraduate degree, or after the groundschool had been finished, but needed to be done in a way that didn't interfere with the undergraduate studies.
Realistically, you are probably looking for a couple of short holidays with your GF annually, and hopefully persuade her to come and live with, or at-least very near, you during her summer vacation. It'll be tough on the relationship, as well as tough on you - but if you get to the end of it all intact, pretty much everything will get better thereafter! You'll also have an impressive capacity for continuous hard work!
G
The only way I could see the workload making sense was to do the PPL during or prior to the first year, ATPL groundschool during the long summer vacations, starting about 2 weeks after exams, and finishing about 1 week before start of term (you need some break!).
Doing the degree and ATPL work at the same time was just never going to work. But this way, with intelligent phasing, we reckoned you could finish your groundschool exams about 3 months after graduation - but there was little slack.
Hour building could potentially be a leisure activity during the undergraduate degree, or after the groundschool had been finished, but needed to be done in a way that didn't interfere with the undergraduate studies.
Realistically, you are probably looking for a couple of short holidays with your GF annually, and hopefully persuade her to come and live with, or at-least very near, you during her summer vacation. It'll be tough on the relationship, as well as tough on you - but if you get to the end of it all intact, pretty much everything will get better thereafter! You'll also have an impressive capacity for continuous hard work!
G
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Without wanting to sound too cynical, I look back on my time at uni and remember thinking i was 'busy'. In hindsight, I wasn't!
Believe me once you start working your perception of how busy you are will change
! As you say you don't take work home with you - but in my job you simply don't go home until your work is done! Try opening an ATPL book after 15 hours in the office... In hindsight I wish I'd done my ATPLs when I was at uni rather than now when I'm working.
In terms of balance you just have to find something that works for you and your routine. For me this is getting up at 0530 every day and working through to 0830 before leaving for work, as I'm lucky to have a very short commute. That way I can hit the 15 hours a week recommended study time, and evenings are my own (when I'm not stuck at work that is). In your situation, if something has to give, it should probably be the hour building at this stage... You can't start the CPL until you have the groundschool done and dusted after all.
Believe me once you start working your perception of how busy you are will change
! As you say you don't take work home with you - but in my job you simply don't go home until your work is done! Try opening an ATPL book after 15 hours in the office... In hindsight I wish I'd done my ATPLs when I was at uni rather than now when I'm working.In terms of balance you just have to find something that works for you and your routine. For me this is getting up at 0530 every day and working through to 0830 before leaving for work, as I'm lucky to have a very short commute. That way I can hit the 15 hours a week recommended study time, and evenings are my own (when I'm not stuck at work that is). In your situation, if something has to give, it should probably be the hour building at this stage... You can't start the CPL until you have the groundschool done and dusted after all.
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busy beeeee....
@Kristoff
Sure my friend, it'll be a learning experience for the both of us.
@Ghenghis the Engineer (awesome username btw)
Thanks for the tips! i'm definitely listening to you about not letting the ATPL get in the way of my degree studies. I'm aware about the difficulties it'll cause for our relationship but as because my girlfriend is a busy med student and I have a personality that tends to force me to push myself (sometimes to beyond my capabilities) we made a pact to understand each other during testing moments when it comes to having little time to see each other.
I actually made a chart to show my dad, showing every month for the next three years and what modules of my pilot training I would try and work at each month (as a very rough guideline). In this guideline, no matter how efficiently I study, the training will end after graduation. Therefore I will take note on what you said about ending all my training after graduation.
@taxistaxing
I'm sorry if I made it sound like having a job isn't hard! I know it's tough on people, my dad works from 8am till 8pm every day and has two weeks of holiday a year. I'm really appreciate everything he does because it's thanks to him I can do this! He's my sole sponsor.
"Believe me once you start working your perception of how busy you are will change"
I know I'm not busy right now compared to the average employee, but I have experienced the busy life. I was doing an Astrophysics Bsc for two years and I was up at 7am and studied and went to class until 3am, with my only breaks being the walks between classes and my flat and shoving the microwave food into that evil little metal box so that I could study while having my meals. I was pulling off 60 hour weeks when you include classes, tutorials labs and assignments. I gave that up (it made me sick from the lack of sleep) and changed to Sports Science, now I'm definetely NOT busy. But nevertheless it's still two courses at once.
I think you make an excellent point about holding off in the consolidation due to the fact that I can't work on the CPL without the ATPL. But here's I question: how long is my ATPL valid for before I start the CPL? because it would suck if I lose all that time consolidating and end up having to retake the ATPL exams to be allowed to go through with the CPL. Keep in mind I only have 26h PIC and a total of 83h.
Sure my friend, it'll be a learning experience for the both of us.
@Ghenghis the Engineer (awesome username btw)
Thanks for the tips! i'm definitely listening to you about not letting the ATPL get in the way of my degree studies. I'm aware about the difficulties it'll cause for our relationship but as because my girlfriend is a busy med student and I have a personality that tends to force me to push myself (sometimes to beyond my capabilities) we made a pact to understand each other during testing moments when it comes to having little time to see each other.
I actually made a chart to show my dad, showing every month for the next three years and what modules of my pilot training I would try and work at each month (as a very rough guideline). In this guideline, no matter how efficiently I study, the training will end after graduation. Therefore I will take note on what you said about ending all my training after graduation.
@taxistaxing
I'm sorry if I made it sound like having a job isn't hard! I know it's tough on people, my dad works from 8am till 8pm every day and has two weeks of holiday a year. I'm really appreciate everything he does because it's thanks to him I can do this! He's my sole sponsor.
"Believe me once you start working your perception of how busy you are will change"
I know I'm not busy right now compared to the average employee, but I have experienced the busy life. I was doing an Astrophysics Bsc for two years and I was up at 7am and studied and went to class until 3am, with my only breaks being the walks between classes and my flat and shoving the microwave food into that evil little metal box so that I could study while having my meals. I was pulling off 60 hour weeks when you include classes, tutorials labs and assignments. I gave that up (it made me sick from the lack of sleep) and changed to Sports Science, now I'm definetely NOT busy. But nevertheless it's still two courses at once.
I think you make an excellent point about holding off in the consolidation due to the fact that I can't work on the CPL without the ATPL. But here's I question: how long is my ATPL valid for before I start the CPL? because it would suck if I lose all that time consolidating and end up having to retake the ATPL exams to be allowed to go through with the CPL. Keep in mind I only have 26h PIC and a total of 83h.
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No worries I remember uni days well - its a different sort of pressure! My understanding is that you have 18 months to complete your ATPL exams from the date of your first exam. From completion of your ground exams, you then have 36 months to complete your ME/IR and MCC so no rush. You can blitz your hour building, cpl and IR in a matter of a few weeks funds permitting. In your situation I would say make sure you get a good degree to fall back on in case flying doesn't work out for whatever reason.
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Originally Posted by taxistaxing
From completion of your ground exams, you then have 36 months to complete your ME/IR and MCC so no rush.
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There is no way I'd be able to cope with university work and the volume (from what I hear) of the ATPL theory - then again I do study Physics and have a very full timetable. If you manage to pull off both then big respect and good luck!
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@taxistaxing
Well I feel a lot better knowing I have 36 months to get the CPL and co. I'm aware that getting a degree is vital, especially a good one, unfortunately physics was my good degree, most people think sports science is a joke unfortunately which it is to some extent but harder than what most people think. I'll keep working at it though since a degree today is really important. Although unfortunately I'm not the kind of guy meant for uni.
@FlyingStone
I'm aware you don't need MEP or MCC to freeze the ATPL, but I need flight experience to get to that stage, so MEP is a great watt to consolidate. Also, my instructor said it's best to do the CPL before IR (hold your horses!) because 1) the IR training is a lot more rigid, and the CPL is a great way to transition from PPL to professional training 2) If I get my CPL it's easier to get a part time voluntary job in a skydiving or gliding club to consolidate more hours for free, reducing training costs.
@BerksFlyer
I know there's no way to do the ATPL during physics, I've been there mate!
Well I feel a lot better knowing I have 36 months to get the CPL and co. I'm aware that getting a degree is vital, especially a good one, unfortunately physics was my good degree, most people think sports science is a joke unfortunately which it is to some extent but harder than what most people think. I'll keep working at it though since a degree today is really important. Although unfortunately I'm not the kind of guy meant for uni.
@FlyingStone
I'm aware you don't need MEP or MCC to freeze the ATPL, but I need flight experience to get to that stage, so MEP is a great watt to consolidate. Also, my instructor said it's best to do the CPL before IR (hold your horses!) because 1) the IR training is a lot more rigid, and the CPL is a great way to transition from PPL to professional training 2) If I get my CPL it's easier to get a part time voluntary job in a skydiving or gliding club to consolidate more hours for free, reducing training costs.
@BerksFlyer
I know there's no way to do the ATPL during physics, I've been there mate!
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I stand corrected re. the MCC. I think I'm right in saying that you need an MEIR if you going to use IR privileges on a multi-engine aricraft? A basic CPL with IR wouldn't be any good if you were aiming for the airlines?
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Man up!
Some of us had to hold full time jobs whilst studying for the ATPLs.
I remember university well and I don't ever remember doing 10 hours of studying per day!
Some of us had to hold full time jobs whilst studying for the ATPLs.
I remember university well and I don't ever remember doing 10 hours of studying per day!
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I'm also at Bristol Groundschool. If you think for one second you will be able to do a uni course and an ATPL course at the same time you are bonkers. 
This stuff is not easy.
Very good course, I've met people that have done their UK ATPLs multiple times for various reasons and all of them preferred Bristol.
People do work and study for ATPLs at the same time, and that works. But I can't see how you're brain is going to cope with so much learning. You going to work is easy, your brain is used to it and it becomes an easy skill. Like anything, once you can do it it's easy. But teaching your brain ATPLs and a uni course is going to be extremely hard.
ATPLs are very hard on their own, if you can do both at once: you're a much more intelligent individual than myself.
"Multitasking: A nice way to say that you’re doing many different things at the same time. And since no one can divide by zero, that means you’re doing many different things half."
This stuff is not easy.
Very good course, I've met people that have done their UK ATPLs multiple times for various reasons and all of them preferred Bristol.
People do work and study for ATPLs at the same time, and that works. But I can't see how you're brain is going to cope with so much learning. You going to work is easy, your brain is used to it and it becomes an easy skill. Like anything, once you can do it it's easy. But teaching your brain ATPLs and a uni course is going to be extremely hard.
ATPLs are very hard on their own, if you can do both at once: you're a much more intelligent individual than myself.
"Multitasking: A nice way to say that you’re doing many different things at the same time. And since no one can divide by zero, that means you’re doing many different things half."
I'm aware that getting a degree is vital, especially a good one, unfortunately physics was my good degree, most people think sports science is a joke unfortunately which it is to some extent but harder than what most people think. I'll keep working at it though since a degree today is really important. Although unfortunately I'm not the kind of guy meant for uni.
There are three reasons to do a degree:-
(1) Fascination with the subject
(2) To enter a graduate profession
(3) An opportunity to live independently and do some growing up.
You've done (3) already with the couple of years before you flunked out of physics, you're not describing a fascination with either physics or sports science, and flying is (with a few exceptions such as a career military officer, or a test pilot) not a graduate profession.
If you aren't suited to a degree, and haven't a reason to have one, stop wasting everybody's time and money.
If you want to be a professional pilot, go and get on with it, and get rid of this delusion that you "need" a degree - you almost certainly do not and are wasting much time and money in flogging this particular dead horse.
G
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@AlexanderH
I'm ready to work hard, and I do study a lot in university, it's not because you were to lazy to actually learn anything in university that I'm the same as you. As pudoc says, the hard thing about doing two courses at once is the information overload.
@G
I agree with you that (3) is pretty much all I have. I would have loved to be a flight test engineer but that requires an engineering degree (shocker). I am fascinated by physics, or at least I was until my university beat it out of me. the system was so bad I became disgusted.
I also admit that I sometimes feel like I'm wasting my dad's money and my time by being in university, but my whole family puts a lot of pressure on me, and i have a feeling my Dad might cut all funds for training if I decide to dump uni. Also, I do like sports science, i find it very interesting, but you're right again, I have no fascination for it.
However, I feel like what I need is motivation, and perhaps working on my professional training while at uni might just do the trick, what do you think?
I'm ready to work hard, and I do study a lot in university, it's not because you were to lazy to actually learn anything in university that I'm the same as you. As pudoc says, the hard thing about doing two courses at once is the information overload.
@G
I agree with you that (3) is pretty much all I have. I would have loved to be a flight test engineer but that requires an engineering degree (shocker). I am fascinated by physics, or at least I was until my university beat it out of me. the system was so bad I became disgusted.
I also admit that I sometimes feel like I'm wasting my dad's money and my time by being in university, but my whole family puts a lot of pressure on me, and i have a feeling my Dad might cut all funds for training if I decide to dump uni. Also, I do like sports science, i find it very interesting, but you're right again, I have no fascination for it.
However, I feel like what I need is motivation, and perhaps working on my professional training while at uni might just do the trick, what do you think?
I've known at-least one very competent FTE with a degree in physics, and I'm sure that there must be others.
You have a father prepared to pay for a degree and flying training? You're a very lucky chap!
Personally if flying was my first passion (personally I have equal passions for engineering and flying so did it otherwise) I'd suggest you look to get on with the flying training then to finish a physics or similarly technical degree through something like the OU when either in a flying job, or hunting for one post-qualification.
But if you are being told that you need a degree to succeed in aviation, get them to go and talk to some experienced professional pilots for an honest opinion.
G
You have a father prepared to pay for a degree and flying training? You're a very lucky chap!
Personally if flying was my first passion (personally I have equal passions for engineering and flying so did it otherwise) I'd suggest you look to get on with the flying training then to finish a physics or similarly technical degree through something like the OU when either in a flying job, or hunting for one post-qualification.
But if you are being told that you need a degree to succeed in aviation, get them to go and talk to some experienced professional pilots for an honest opinion.
G
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G
Thanks for the honest and not troll-like responses.
I'm aware of my luck!
very lucky indeed. I used to feel bad but my girlfriend says that I should appreciate it and male the most of it, so I will. Yeah my Dad works extremely hard, and he works smart, he went from the bottom all the way to the top.
It's not that he or anyone believes that a degree is essential or aviation, it's that a degree is an important backup plan. I understand and to a very large extent agree with that view. I know that I could easily be unable to fly professionally (I haven't even done the Class 1 medical).
I've spoken to several guys with heaps of experience and not many of them have university degrees, but my dad keeps saying they're from a different era. which is true I guess...
Thanks for the honest and not troll-like responses.
I'm aware of my luck!
very lucky indeed. I used to feel bad but my girlfriend says that I should appreciate it and male the most of it, so I will. Yeah my Dad works extremely hard, and he works smart, he went from the bottom all the way to the top.It's not that he or anyone believes that a degree is essential or aviation, it's that a degree is an important backup plan. I understand and to a very large extent agree with that view. I know that I could easily be unable to fly professionally (I haven't even done the Class 1 medical).
I've spoken to several guys with heaps of experience and not many of them have university degrees, but my dad keeps saying they're from a different era. which is true I guess...
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it's that a degree is an important backup plan
My dad has no degree - I have two, in engineering. Dad can often beat me on technical engineering problems. But, as you say, we're from different eras.
Aviation is another thing however. The qualifications that people value are much more specific. There are specific areas where a degree is useful - my two degrees in aerospace engineering are essential to my aviation research roles.
The good MSc programmes in air transport management are well respected and routes into some worthwhile management roles. However, those jobs generally go to people who have other professional qualifications as well, and you don't do an MSc without either a BSc/BA/BEng or a lot of professional experience. There are some aeronautical related degrees that would be more understandable if your real objective is an aeronautical role.
Something aviation specific would be better for showing commitment to the community and industry - a physics degree and an interest in going into something like aeronautical science / system dynamics / aerodynamics research, would be reasonably impressive. A (maintenance) engineering licence is another possibility.
But sport science? Sorry, whilst I agree that it's an interesting and worthwhile degree, but it's not aeronautical, and nor is it a useful backup option because it is in no way a licence to practice something that'll make money. A sports coaching qualification (expressed at any interviews as a "stop-gap") would be understandable, but a full degree makes limited sense.
G
Aviation is another thing however. The qualifications that people value are much more specific. There are specific areas where a degree is useful - my two degrees in aerospace engineering are essential to my aviation research roles.
The good MSc programmes in air transport management are well respected and routes into some worthwhile management roles. However, those jobs generally go to people who have other professional qualifications as well, and you don't do an MSc without either a BSc/BA/BEng or a lot of professional experience. There are some aeronautical related degrees that would be more understandable if your real objective is an aeronautical role.
Something aviation specific would be better for showing commitment to the community and industry - a physics degree and an interest in going into something like aeronautical science / system dynamics / aerodynamics research, would be reasonably impressive. A (maintenance) engineering licence is another possibility.
But sport science? Sorry, whilst I agree that it's an interesting and worthwhile degree, but it's not aeronautical, and nor is it a useful backup option because it is in no way a licence to practice something that'll make money. A sports coaching qualification (expressed at any interviews as a "stop-gap") would be understandable, but a full degree makes limited sense.
G
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I did not do my ATPL distance learning, but went full time course. Used to get up 05.00 in the morning, self study until 08.00, than go to class for 6 hours, back self study for 2 - 4 hours! Did the ATPL's in under 6 months, running a business with wife and newborn baby around us!
One tip I would give you, is that you can split the exams up more than Bristol offers you. In theory, you need to complete all 14 exams within 6 sittings! Bristol normally make 2 sittings, which I think can be a bit tough with your situation.
Do the course, but pace the exams, spread them over 3 - 4 sittings. These have to be done within 18 months from the first exam.
Now a tip to give yourself some more time, for when you need to complete your CPL/IR, save one exam until the end, example one of the COM exams, dead easy exam, done in 5 minutes! Complete all your 13 exams before, save this one until the end, just make it is done before the 18 month period runs out!
This way you, the countdown of 36 months for your IR/CPL does not start until you have completed your last ATPL exam, and I suggest the COM exam, because it is so easy, not much effort is required to pass it!
This gives your 36 months to complete your CPL/IR, and also gives you more time to hour build, specially in the UK with crap weather, you might need more time than you expect.
It will take a toll on you relationships/friends etc., you will have to make sacrifices, it is not difficult, it is just a lot of material to get trough, as some of it is quite essential for later, when you go to apply for a job!
I would say time-wise, expect at least to spend 4 hours a day, 6 days a week + revising question bank, as soon as you get midway into a subject.
One tip I would give you, is that you can split the exams up more than Bristol offers you. In theory, you need to complete all 14 exams within 6 sittings! Bristol normally make 2 sittings, which I think can be a bit tough with your situation.
Do the course, but pace the exams, spread them over 3 - 4 sittings. These have to be done within 18 months from the first exam.
Now a tip to give yourself some more time, for when you need to complete your CPL/IR, save one exam until the end, example one of the COM exams, dead easy exam, done in 5 minutes! Complete all your 13 exams before, save this one until the end, just make it is done before the 18 month period runs out!
This way you, the countdown of 36 months for your IR/CPL does not start until you have completed your last ATPL exam, and I suggest the COM exam, because it is so easy, not much effort is required to pass it!
This gives your 36 months to complete your CPL/IR, and also gives you more time to hour build, specially in the UK with crap weather, you might need more time than you expect.
It will take a toll on you relationships/friends etc., you will have to make sacrifices, it is not difficult, it is just a lot of material to get trough, as some of it is quite essential for later, when you go to apply for a job!
I would say time-wise, expect at least to spend 4 hours a day, 6 days a week + revising question bank, as soon as you get midway into a subject.
