Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
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Never! Where would our worldly resident lecturers spout their unrelenting tosh if posters had to abide by this???
Sit tight, follow their advice and don't do otherwise without their unequivocal permission - they know best
Sit tight, follow their advice and don't do otherwise without their unequivocal permission - they know best
. See if you can find Bealzebubs take on airline hold pools. In fact I'll try and find it for you and place it below.As for your second sentence there:
From people of unquestionable intelligence:
MANY A TRUE WORD IS SPOKEN IN JEST - "Some truths, too painful or too likely to provoke, can be spoken only when the listener has been disarmed by laughter. A proverbial truth known for centuries, this notion was apparently first recorded by Chaucer with the line, 'A man may seye full sooth (truth) in game and pley,' from 'Canterbury Tales' (c. 1387). In 'King Lear' (1605), William Shakespeare wrote, 'Jesters do oft prove prophets,' and some years later, essentially the modern version was rendered in the 'Roxburghe Ballad' (c. 1665): Many a true word hath been spoken in jest.." From "Wise Words and Wives' Tales: The Origins, Meanings and Time-Honored Wisdom of Proverbs and Folk Sayings Olde and New" by Stuart Flexner and Doris Flexner (Avon Books, New York, 1993).
Go and find your box and get back in it.
Don't assume that everyone doing an IRT is hoping to work in Aviation.
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Bealzebubs excellent analogy:
It is a virtual reality version of the lobster/fish tank in a posh restaurant.
Candidates who might be deemed suitable for employment are told that they will be considered again as future vacancies arise. Sometimes those that are removed from employment will be told that they will be considered again if and when new opportunities arise. It gives the company a resource to possibly draw from at short notice rather than having to re-initiate a new recruitment programme.
The pool or tank in a busy restaurant is a useful feature that lets the customer select their own choice of product, with the knowledge that it looks fresh and attractive. In a busy restaurant the pool can be added to as necessary, ensuring a ready source of supply.
Inevitably, sometimes the product will become damaged or cease to be fresh in the pool and it can then be removed, discarded and replaced with something fresher, or if the market contracts can be emptied altogether. The pool/tank is a resource for the restaurant. Not every fish or lobster will become a fine culinary presentation. The best will usually be selected first, the leftovers will be discarded or cycled into other products as their longevity and lack of freshness make them less appealing to the customer. Fresh additions will often be selected ahead of older survivors.
When the market for fresh lobster drops off, the product can be humanely thrown back in the sea. The tank can be emptied and cleaned with bleach. It may provide window dressing for a while, but if it is taking up space and/or costing money to run, it is likely to be put in a cupboard.
An airline holding pool has many of the same characteristics. It provides a resource for the company. It can pick and choose who it might want from that pool at its own whim. It can add to it at any time. It can empty the pool or discard items as it wishes. Unlike the real pool, in this virtual pool the product is only "an expression of interest" that might have moved on elsewhere. It costs little or nothing to maintain, and because it is virtual, it provides no guarantees of priority of supply, for either the candidate or the company.
Airline "holding pools" are therefore simply a group of people who have both given and received an "expression of interest," at a particular point in time. There is no particular commitment on either party. As time passes some of the denizens of the holding pool will cease to be as attractive to the company that interviewed them. Likewise some might have found employment elsewhere. A "holding pool" is not a job, or even a promise of a job. The companies expect the candidates to realise this and act accordingly. The candidates themselves should realize this and accept that as a product they have a definite shelf life in this respect.
Candidates who might be deemed suitable for employment are told that they will be considered again as future vacancies arise. Sometimes those that are removed from employment will be told that they will be considered again if and when new opportunities arise. It gives the company a resource to possibly draw from at short notice rather than having to re-initiate a new recruitment programme.
The pool or tank in a busy restaurant is a useful feature that lets the customer select their own choice of product, with the knowledge that it looks fresh and attractive. In a busy restaurant the pool can be added to as necessary, ensuring a ready source of supply.
Inevitably, sometimes the product will become damaged or cease to be fresh in the pool and it can then be removed, discarded and replaced with something fresher, or if the market contracts can be emptied altogether. The pool/tank is a resource for the restaurant. Not every fish or lobster will become a fine culinary presentation. The best will usually be selected first, the leftovers will be discarded or cycled into other products as their longevity and lack of freshness make them less appealing to the customer. Fresh additions will often be selected ahead of older survivors.
When the market for fresh lobster drops off, the product can be humanely thrown back in the sea. The tank can be emptied and cleaned with bleach. It may provide window dressing for a while, but if it is taking up space and/or costing money to run, it is likely to be put in a cupboard.
An airline holding pool has many of the same characteristics. It provides a resource for the company. It can pick and choose who it might want from that pool at its own whim. It can add to it at any time. It can empty the pool or discard items as it wishes. Unlike the real pool, in this virtual pool the product is only "an expression of interest" that might have moved on elsewhere. It costs little or nothing to maintain, and because it is virtual, it provides no guarantees of priority of supply, for either the candidate or the company.
Airline "holding pools" are therefore simply a group of people who have both given and received an "expression of interest," at a particular point in time. There is no particular commitment on either party. As time passes some of the denizens of the holding pool will cease to be as attractive to the company that interviewed them. Likewise some might have found employment elsewhere. A "holding pool" is not a job, or even a promise of a job. The companies expect the candidates to realise this and act accordingly. The candidates themselves should realize this and accept that as a product they have a definite shelf life in this respect.
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Dont normally post, but thought this might actually be some useful information for you. I am fortunate in that I am currently working, for Thomson Airways. Heard, officially, today that we are 110 Pilots too many for next year, probably the same for 2011 and 2012 will be the earliest we will be recruiting. Sorry
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I'm not trying to 'nitpick', and that's the truth, however -
By circumstances, I don't mean does this particular individual have £8,000 (if you're smart) to 'spunk on fresh air' as you so eloquently put it... What if the guy already has a job flying? Jobs with initial requirements CPL/MEIR/MCC/JOC/737TR blah blah blah aint the only (dying) harvest out there... maybe he works for a small operator or business who don't use simulators, hence renewals on the actual aeroplane? Trust me, for every ten jobs you'll find on PPJN or whatever you use, you'll find another hundred through word of mouth, granted your smaller operators, but why spend money advertising when you already have ten or fifteen people you know who are looking for work? Sorry, but that's the truth.
If there are people on here seriously looking to fly, you need to stop faffing around with all these CVs and telephone calls to a half arsed receptionist somewhere, get off your backside and knock on some doors, wash some planes, answer some A/G calls, whatever you need to do to get into the scene. On that note, folks with fATPLs working at big airports for 'experience' are doing themselves no favours - get out of there and into a smaller airfield doing whatever you can find. The only exception I can think of is if you're working in ops for one of the bigger carriers, but if you're lifting the SLF's luggage into planes, lol, it aint helping you.
My apologies for the thread drift, and good luck to all
By circumstances, I don't mean does this particular individual have £8,000 (if you're smart) to 'spunk on fresh air' as you so eloquently put it... What if the guy already has a job flying? Jobs with initial requirements CPL/MEIR/MCC/JOC/737TR blah blah blah aint the only (dying) harvest out there... maybe he works for a small operator or business who don't use simulators, hence renewals on the actual aeroplane? Trust me, for every ten jobs you'll find on PPJN or whatever you use, you'll find another hundred through word of mouth, granted your smaller operators, but why spend money advertising when you already have ten or fifteen people you know who are looking for work? Sorry, but that's the truth.
If there are people on here seriously looking to fly, you need to stop faffing around with all these CVs and telephone calls to a half arsed receptionist somewhere, get off your backside and knock on some doors, wash some planes, answer some A/G calls, whatever you need to do to get into the scene. On that note, folks with fATPLs working at big airports for 'experience' are doing themselves no favours - get out of there and into a smaller airfield doing whatever you can find. The only exception I can think of is if you're working in ops for one of the bigger carriers, but if you're lifting the SLF's luggage into planes, lol, it aint helping you.
My apologies for the thread drift, and good luck to all
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It wasn't thread drift, the second paragraph is good advice if you are staying in this industry.
Though the first was a tad nit picky. The person was almost certainly doing an IR with a view to an fATPL. And they were spunking alot of money into the air.
Though the first was a tad nit picky. The person was almost certainly doing an IR with a view to an fATPL. And they were spunking alot of money into the air.
Last edited by TheBeak; 11th Sep 2009 at 16:38.
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If you do think Bealzebubs post is so good, why don't you LISTEN to it instead of spouting delusional crap that is based on f-all experience other than a bit of integrated FTO flying and the turd that they churn out.
Prove I am wrong rather than saying:
I welcome you to do so. And I hope you can.
Facts please, why am I and others who share my views (perhaps a little less strongly
) wrong and you are right?
What you need to understand is that no one is questioning or knocking your ability to fly a plane or operate effectively as a member of a crew. I am sure you can do it very well. But the question is will you, qualifying when you are deliberately trying to do so. The answer is an unfortunate one for you.
Prove I am wrong rather than saying:
shame you can't match it really, it might make the multitude of spoutings from your keyboard more passable.
Facts please, why am I and others who share my views (perhaps a little less strongly
) wrong and you are right?What you need to understand is that no one is questioning or knocking your ability to fly a plane or operate effectively as a member of a crew. I am sure you can do it very well. But the question is will you, qualifying when you are deliberately trying to do so. The answer is an unfortunate one for you.
Last edited by TheBeak; 11th Sep 2009 at 10:15.
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Go easy on 99jolegg.... he is probably just waking up to the fact that he has paid a fortune for a training course with very little chance of a permanent job at the end of it. I would be a bit bitter if I was in his shoes and had been sold a story by CTC. 
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Originally Posted by TheBeak
Facts please
Where are my spoutings of "delusional crap"? Who says I haven't listened? In fact, where have I said, anywhere on this board, that "this will happen" or "that will happen" which would surely be the basis for "delusional crap"?
Originally Posted by TheBeak
What you need to understand is that no one is questioning or knocking your ability to fly a plane or operate effectively as a member of a crew.
Unfortunately, there seems to be no truth, point, reason or fact to your post.
There really is no point in explaining another point of view - it'll always be wrong and unjustified to you because it's of variation to your own. You guessed my point of view though and got it hideously wrong.
Facts, you say.
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TUI just announced a significant increase in the pilot excess for summer 2010 on the basis of a fleet reduction.. 
Earliest prediction for any recruitment 2012
Discussions ongoing as to how to deal with this excess
No good smileys in this post.
FREDA
Earliest prediction for any recruitment 2012
Discussions ongoing as to how to deal with this excess
No good smileys in this post.
FREDA
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Originally Posted by Grass Strip Basher
Go easy on 99jolegg.... he is probably just waking up to the fact that he has paid a fortune for a training course with very little chance of a permanent job at the end of it. I would be a bit bitter if I was in his shoes and had been sold a story by CTC.
I don't think the chance of a permanent job is the biggest question - the time to that permanent job is more of an issue. I've personally planned for 2 years in the hold pool. Maybe that's wrong, maybe it'll be longer, maybe the hold pool will be emptied and I'll be a fish on dry land but these are uncharted waters and you have no more of an idea of the future (with regards to CTC's placing ability) than the next person simply because this situation has never occurred before (I refer to CTC's presence in this situation). The difference being, yourself and TheBeak will tell people what will happen when really you are guessing.
Other airline pilots (away from family and CTC) seem to think that 2 years or so from finishing the course (bearing in mind the course finishing time is 2010) isn't an unrealistic time to expect anything to happen. Again, they may be right, they may be wrong. They're guessing too so I don't attribute their words with any more weight than I do to those with the opposing argument.
Advice from anyone with any experience is always good...shame a few people on here cannot manage it without being denigrating and patronising, though.
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There really is no point in explaining another point of view - it'll always be wrong and unjustified to you because it's of variation to your own.
or operate effectively as a member of a crew. I am sure you can do it very well.
I know, that's bad news FREDA.
would be a bit bitter if I was in his shoes and had been sold a story by CTC.
it without being denigrating and patronising, though.
Last edited by TheBeak; 11th Sep 2009 at 16:39.
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Originally Posted by TheBeak
There is a 12 month limit on your time in the holdpool for a kick off.
No complex...just an observation...seems pretty valid to me looking at previous posts.
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Are you sure? Where did you get that information from?
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Yes, the contract that was written well before the recession says: "APL may terminate this agreement if the Cadet has been in the Holding Pool for a period exceeding 12 months".
Other parts of the contract go on to say that cadets cannot expect to get a job in any set time scale.
My point is that you say 12 months = kick off. For those approaching and over 12 months, this hasn't happened. Therefore, I wondered if you had any other more recent concrete information that this will / is the case. Should have guessed really...
Just try writing a post without being patronising. Go on, dare ya....
Other parts of the contract go on to say that cadets cannot expect to get a job in any set time scale.
My point is that you say 12 months = kick off. For those approaching and over 12 months, this hasn't happened. Therefore, I wondered if you had any other more recent concrete information that this will / is the case. Should have guessed really...
Just try writing a post without being patronising. Go on, dare ya....
I Have Control
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Ignore this person
Here's an unpatronising view on your chances of achieving a successful flying career jolegg...zero...reason--your unpleasant and hostile attitude...no apologies.
I expect you'll fire off something rude in reply. Please go ahead. But do start looking for a different career. Something which doesn't involve other people.
I expect you'll fire off something rude in reply. Please go ahead. But do start looking for a different career. Something which doesn't involve other people.
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Quote "What I heard was one of the two Oxford exam callsigns which means a CAA examiner which means an initial IRT/partial retake."
It could possibly be one of the 30 odd Kuwait/Jordanian students from Atlantic Flight Training coventry completing their course. AFT have been, and still are, busy training these guys for the likes of Kuwait Airways etc.
It could possibly be one of the 30 odd Kuwait/Jordanian students from Atlantic Flight Training coventry completing their course. AFT have been, and still are, busy training these guys for the likes of Kuwait Airways etc.