BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Tipping Point
Sky report today that BA expect a strike of this duration at this time to cost them GBP140 million.
Now we know that the number of actual strikers is less than 5,000 or so.
That works out at 28,000 a head.
So fire all the strikers and let them go to an industrial tribunal. Most of them would be lucky to get that and you wouldn't have to reemploy them.
It would be illegal so you'd get fined as well. Big Deal.
But it must be reaching the point where it has to be economically viable to clear out this dross and take the short term pain for the long term gain.
Not to mention halving BASSA's income.
Win Win all round as far as I can see, I can't even see UNITE risking the jobs of its other members trying to get involved now that it has virtually no political power with its poodle gone.
And who in safe employment now is going to risk losing their jobs defending these witless and overpaid prima donnas?
Of more concern is the other tipping point, which is that at which Sheikh Khalifa decides to dip into his Abbey National Young Savers account, buy BA for cash at a discount and merge it with his beloved Etihad Airways.
And we aren't talking Manchester City millions to spend here. We are talking a hard nosed bunch of businessmen who simply won't take this
.
Not to mention how he would view the pension funds.
And don't expect too much intervention now we have the Tories running the country again.
Now we know that the number of actual strikers is less than 5,000 or so.
That works out at 28,000 a head.
So fire all the strikers and let them go to an industrial tribunal. Most of them would be lucky to get that and you wouldn't have to reemploy them.
It would be illegal so you'd get fined as well. Big Deal.
But it must be reaching the point where it has to be economically viable to clear out this dross and take the short term pain for the long term gain.
Not to mention halving BASSA's income.
Win Win all round as far as I can see, I can't even see UNITE risking the jobs of its other members trying to get involved now that it has virtually no political power with its poodle gone.
And who in safe employment now is going to risk losing their jobs defending these witless and overpaid prima donnas?
Of more concern is the other tipping point, which is that at which Sheikh Khalifa decides to dip into his Abbey National Young Savers account, buy BA for cash at a discount and merge it with his beloved Etihad Airways.
And we aren't talking Manchester City millions to spend here. We are talking a hard nosed bunch of businessmen who simply won't take this
.Not to mention how he would view the pension funds.
And don't expect too much intervention now we have the Tories running the country again.
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DH interview
On why he refused to work 6(!) trips at a time when everyone else in the company were having to pull together to get through the severe disruption that the snows brought:
His dedication to the union is commendable but I think most employers, and many hard working employees, would wince at those priorities.
This is a guy who believes he has been unfairly dismissed and is mounting an appeal. Yet he has been silly enough to go on national radio and have a rant, during the course of which he has said rather too much for his own good.
It is sobering that this is the calibre of union rep upon whose skill the future conditions of so many cabin crew depend.
"my first responsibility is to the union so I won't be turning up for my trips"
His dedication to the union is commendable but I think most employers, and many hard working employees, would wince at those priorities.
This is a guy who believes he has been unfairly dismissed and is mounting an appeal. Yet he has been silly enough to go on national radio and have a rant, during the course of which he has said rather too much for his own good.
It is sobering that this is the calibre of union rep upon whose skill the future conditions of so many cabin crew depend.
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DH
Yesterday an ex-BA rep on 5 live radio said:
hmm and the blind keep leading the blind; with their greatest concern being will/can/what if I get sacked by BA!
Hopefully the concern of re-instatement of staff travel will now go out the window; as to the same with re-instatement of those being disciplined (after due procedure of course).
Only thing left? get rid of the chaff, keep the wheat!
WW must surely be thinking by now cheaper to get rid of all those militant members and get the company on a reasonable footing again than keep them employed? Simply from a hassle free point of of view; sack them tommorow and deal with them in the courts if need be, or just give them their pay off. He has enough staff to do it, or can at least recruit enough in the next 7 days to do so!
he believes this will all end badly
Hopefully the concern of re-instatement of staff travel will now go out the window; as to the same with re-instatement of those being disciplined (after due procedure of course).
Only thing left? get rid of the chaff, keep the wheat!
WW must surely be thinking by now cheaper to get rid of all those militant members and get the company on a reasonable footing again than keep them employed? Simply from a hassle free point of of view; sack them tommorow and deal with them in the courts if need be, or just give them their pay off. He has enough staff to do it, or can at least recruit enough in the next 7 days to do so!
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From the 'other thread'
Recent articles in the Independent, the Guardian and the FT suggest that now is the time for Walsh to check his ego and stop being so macho. It will now cost the company very very little to stop the waste of an estimate £150m that the latest strikes are estimated to cost.]
Last edited by Winch-control; 12th May 2010 at 11:24.
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Salary
And this made me laugh so much.. posted on the 'other forum'
Obviously because they paid way above their real value normally!!! Simples
How can anyone afford to lose 20+ days of their salary ? Ok strikers get £30/day but that hardly covers living expenses ....
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Courtesy of Welcome Aboard on the CC thread the latest communication from Mr. Walsh.
To All colleagues
The announcement by Unite that it will mount a further 20 days of strike action will have shocked our customers and many of you.
Sadly it comes as no surprise to those of us who have spent the past 15 months negotiating with Unite in a genuine attempt to reach an agreement.
It seems to me that time and again, Unite has shown itself to be a cynical and calculating trade union, willing to stretch the boundaries of truthfulness and integrity. I would like to set the record straight.
We have made significant compromises.
In a statement on Monday, Unite claimed that we had "rejected an approach by the union over the weekend". That is not true. I was available all weekend and there were no contacts made.
Unite has repeatedly moved the goalposts and is not interested in settling the dispute. The union knows our latest offer addresses all the concerns it has raised during 15 months of negotiations and that we have compromised many times in an effort to get a resolution.
Tony Woodley himself has said that our final offer "on many points represents an improvement".
During these talks, we have:
I do not believe the union is genuine when it says it wants meaningful talks to enable these strikes to be called off, especially in view of its plans for a fresh ballot to enable more strikes later in the year.
This is a fair deal and it remains available. There are no more compromises that we can make and we cannot lose sight of the fact these changes are to ensure our future sustainability.
Disciplinary proceedings
Contrary to media reports, no-one has been suspended for taking part in strike action.
Most of the suspensions have taken place following allegations from colleagues of bullying and intimidation. We are duty bound to investigate these, and the investigations are conducted under the company's disciplinary procedures, which have been in place for many years and are agreed with all of the trade unions, including Unite.
To date, we have concluded 30 disciplinary cases. Of those, five individuals have had no action taken against them and gone back to work; 15 have had written warnings and seven have been dismissed for serious cases of misconduct.
It is ludicrous for Unite to describe our disciplinary investigations as "victimisation".
Fantasy ballot
Unite has said that cabin crew have overwhelmingly rejected our latest proposal. I do not believe this is the case.
More than 70 per cent of crew came to work during the previous strikes.
The union’s latest online ballot was operated outside the statutory rules and the votes were not confidential. Cabin crew had to submit their name, staff number and union membership details when casting their vote. These were intimidatory tactics that I think were intended to deter crew from voting in favour of the deal.
You may question whether these are the actions of a democratic trade union keen to genuinely engage with its members and represent their best interests, or those of a small minority of people hell bent on destroying your company and your jobs. Please don’t let them.
This action will not be 20 days of strikes, and the union knows this. The "breather" days in between the four blocks of strikes serve no purpose for our operation or our customers. This is a 23 day strike in the run up to the World Cup, which will disrupt another school break and many other business trips and hard earned holidays. And just when the UK economy needs help to get back on its feet, Unite will deal it another blow.
To All colleagues
The announcement by Unite that it will mount a further 20 days of strike action will have shocked our customers and many of you.
Sadly it comes as no surprise to those of us who have spent the past 15 months negotiating with Unite in a genuine attempt to reach an agreement.
It seems to me that time and again, Unite has shown itself to be a cynical and calculating trade union, willing to stretch the boundaries of truthfulness and integrity. I would like to set the record straight.
We have made significant compromises.
In a statement on Monday, Unite claimed that we had "rejected an approach by the union over the weekend". That is not true. I was available all weekend and there were no contacts made.
Unite has repeatedly moved the goalposts and is not interested in settling the dispute. The union knows our latest offer addresses all the concerns it has raised during 15 months of negotiations and that we have compromised many times in an effort to get a resolution.
Tony Woodley himself has said that our final offer "on many points represents an improvement".
During these talks, we have:
- offered the partial reversal of crew complements, despite a High Court ruling in our favour
- agreed to future promotions and transfers on current contracts for current crew
- given a written assurance about the allocation of routes and aircraft between fleets
- given assurances to protect the pay, terms and conditions for our current crew
- changed our position on pay to guarantee RPI rises for two years, on top of increments
- agreed to the return of staff travel to crew who went on strike, subject to certain conditions
I do not believe the union is genuine when it says it wants meaningful talks to enable these strikes to be called off, especially in view of its plans for a fresh ballot to enable more strikes later in the year.
This is a fair deal and it remains available. There are no more compromises that we can make and we cannot lose sight of the fact these changes are to ensure our future sustainability.
Disciplinary proceedings
Contrary to media reports, no-one has been suspended for taking part in strike action.
Most of the suspensions have taken place following allegations from colleagues of bullying and intimidation. We are duty bound to investigate these, and the investigations are conducted under the company's disciplinary procedures, which have been in place for many years and are agreed with all of the trade unions, including Unite.
To date, we have concluded 30 disciplinary cases. Of those, five individuals have had no action taken against them and gone back to work; 15 have had written warnings and seven have been dismissed for serious cases of misconduct.
It is ludicrous for Unite to describe our disciplinary investigations as "victimisation".
Fantasy ballot
Unite has said that cabin crew have overwhelmingly rejected our latest proposal. I do not believe this is the case.
More than 70 per cent of crew came to work during the previous strikes.
The union’s latest online ballot was operated outside the statutory rules and the votes were not confidential. Cabin crew had to submit their name, staff number and union membership details when casting their vote. These were intimidatory tactics that I think were intended to deter crew from voting in favour of the deal.
You may question whether these are the actions of a democratic trade union keen to genuinely engage with its members and represent their best interests, or those of a small minority of people hell bent on destroying your company and your jobs. Please don’t let them.
This action will not be 20 days of strikes, and the union knows this. The "breather" days in between the four blocks of strikes serve no purpose for our operation or our customers. This is a 23 day strike in the run up to the World Cup, which will disrupt another school break and many other business trips and hard earned holidays. And just when the UK economy needs help to get back on its feet, Unite will deal it another blow.
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And this made me laugh so much.. posted on the 'other forum'
Quote:
How can anyone afford to lose 20+ days of their salary ? Ok strikers get £30/day but that hardly covers living expenses ....
Obviously because they paid way above their real value normally!!! Simples
Quote:
How can anyone afford to lose 20+ days of their salary ? Ok strikers get £30/day but that hardly covers living expenses ....
Obviously because they paid way above their real value normally!!! Simples
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In a staff forum today WW also went through the 12 week issue. He basically said, or inferred that (a) an employer has a defence to sacking someone for striking 12 weeks after the first action, (b) a number of hoops had to be jumped through by an employer to justify the sacking and (c) in his (and BA lawyers') view, these conditions have been met by BA. He also mentioned the possibility of recruiting new CC.
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Team Walsh
Just sent to Exec Club members
Dear Mr xxxxxx,
As you are undoubtedly aware, Unite, the trade union that represents British Airways' cabin crew has announced further strike action.
I wanted to update you on the situation and thank you for your continued loyalty and support.
We were saddened but not surprised that Unite has announced plans for strikes that span 23 days including the May bank holiday and half term. I can assure you that this action will not ground British Airways.
Unite officials continue to show a callous disregard for our customers. A small minority act as if they want to destroy BA and the jobs of thousands of their colleagues. And just when the UK economy needs help to get back on its feet, Unite will deal it another blow.
The offer on the table is very fair. It includes a guaranteed pay rise for the next two years, meets the union's concerns on crewing levels, access to routes and maintains a standard of living that reflects the value and service our cabin crew deliver to our customers.
During the last two periods of industrial action, thousands of staff from across the airline, including volunteers, kept British Airways flying and we flew more than half a million customers to their destinations.
We are confident that many cabin crew will again ignore Unite's pointless strike call and support the efforts of the rest of the airline.
On the strike dates we will operate all London Gatwick and London City services. At Heathrow we plan to operate a substantial part of our longhaul schedule. There will also be a number of daily flights to every destination across our shorthaul network.
We are talking to other airlines about leasing in extra aircraft to support our shorthaul schedule and we will buy thousands of seats from other airlines to help our customers rebook if their original flight is cancelled.
I fully appreciate that information is critical during such a period so we will regularly update ba.com with details of our revised schedule and options available.
Your support, patience and understanding during the recent months have been invaluable and I would like to thank you in advance for your continued loyalty in support of our business.
Yours sincerely,
Willie Walsh
Dear Mr xxxxxx,
As you are undoubtedly aware, Unite, the trade union that represents British Airways' cabin crew has announced further strike action.
I wanted to update you on the situation and thank you for your continued loyalty and support.
We were saddened but not surprised that Unite has announced plans for strikes that span 23 days including the May bank holiday and half term. I can assure you that this action will not ground British Airways.
Unite officials continue to show a callous disregard for our customers. A small minority act as if they want to destroy BA and the jobs of thousands of their colleagues. And just when the UK economy needs help to get back on its feet, Unite will deal it another blow.
The offer on the table is very fair. It includes a guaranteed pay rise for the next two years, meets the union's concerns on crewing levels, access to routes and maintains a standard of living that reflects the value and service our cabin crew deliver to our customers.
During the last two periods of industrial action, thousands of staff from across the airline, including volunteers, kept British Airways flying and we flew more than half a million customers to their destinations.
We are confident that many cabin crew will again ignore Unite's pointless strike call and support the efforts of the rest of the airline.
On the strike dates we will operate all London Gatwick and London City services. At Heathrow we plan to operate a substantial part of our longhaul schedule. There will also be a number of daily flights to every destination across our shorthaul network.
We are talking to other airlines about leasing in extra aircraft to support our shorthaul schedule and we will buy thousands of seats from other airlines to help our customers rebook if their original flight is cancelled.
I fully appreciate that information is critical during such a period so we will regularly update ba.com with details of our revised schedule and options available.
Your support, patience and understanding during the recent months have been invaluable and I would like to thank you in advance for your continued loyalty in support of our business.
Yours sincerely,Willie Walsh
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I think the pax, and CC, and The City, have been sent a very clear message by WW.
The prospects of it being heard by BASSA/Unite are, IMO, minimal.
My sympathy is extended to all of those working FOR the Company.
A turbulent month lies ahead.
The prospects of it being heard by BASSA/Unite are, IMO, minimal.
My sympathy is extended to all of those working FOR the Company.
A turbulent month lies ahead.
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It seems that approximately 25% of the available CC will be striking during this period. I for one would be happy to see a corresponding reduction in the No of onboard CC during this period.
Is there any reason why the company cannot take this approach? on a 747 this would mean 9 or 10 CC for the flight which seems perfectly sufficient and something that I am sure Pax would agree to given the choice of that or not flying.
No doubt the 1000 or so VCC could be used to enhance these numbers somewhat.
Any thoughts?
Is there any reason why the company cannot take this approach? on a 747 this would mean 9 or 10 CC for the flight which seems perfectly sufficient and something that I am sure Pax would agree to given the choice of that or not flying.
No doubt the 1000 or so VCC could be used to enhance these numbers somewhat.
Any thoughts?
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There are legal CAA minimums for the number of CC - related to emergency exits, and nothing to do with customer service.
IIRC, the number needed for a 747 is higher than you suggest. Fourteen rings a bell in my distant memory-banks.
IIRC, the number needed for a 747 is higher than you suggest. Fourteen rings a bell in my distant memory-banks.
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Once again Woodley and Simpson, Unite et al, make themselves look VERY VERY stupid by claiming that they had approached WW over the weekend and were "rejected."
WW said this in his memo of today, so perhaps they dare to call him a liar:
Would YOU dare to say that WW lied? I wouldn't - its more than his job is worth!
Unite and BASSA will stoop to gutter tactics to help get a lie across it seems.
WW said this in his memo of today, so perhaps they dare to call him a liar:
In a statement on Monday, Unite claimed that we had "rejected an approach by the union over the weekend". That is not true. I was available all weekend and there were no contacts made.
Unite and BASSA will stoop to gutter tactics to help get a lie across it seems.
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Might be a CAA minimum but hardly critical to the safe operation of the flight.
Trained CC manning the doors to ensure a safe and controlled evacuation in the case of an incident. That's why some ac types can operate with fewer CC than others, and the 747-400 has LOTS of doors and emergency exits.
QED, Sir.
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Originally Posted by pencisely
Might be a CAA minimum but hardly critical to the safe operation of the flight.
I've no doubt that your assessment of the minimum crew required is rooted in a wealth of safety and practical experience. Sadly, the CAA, (who clearly lack your depth of knowledge), are the ones that call the shots for now.