BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions

[Pohutu]

Hotel Mode

Yes, the company can refuse to comply with a reinstatement order, but there are two consequences. Firstly, an additional amount of compensation (not strictly a fine) can be awarded for the failure to reinstate. Secondly, the cap on compensation for unfair dismissal is lifted, so there is no limit on the amount of compensation that can be awarded.

[Neptunus Rex]

I think that "the man on the Clapham omnibus" would consider all the BA staff on the open topped omnibus to be bringing the company into disrepute.
Grounds for dismissal? It would be a start.

[RTR]

When I was reading the main CC thread, with the exception of few with heads firming planted in 'sand.' (?). I felt so sorry for the girls and boys who desperately want this nonsense of a strike bought to end. It is clear they feel that BASSA and UNITE are intent in doing harm to BA. Something that is blatantly wrong and totally stupid. Yet Derek Simpson calls BASSA cabin staff "deluded clowns"

What are they striking for today?? "A shortfall of £60M" - "Pay terms and conditions" - "imposition" - "new Fleet" or the "return of ST and the reinstatement of those fired." Which one is it? It changes almost daily. Does anyone know in the union? Woodley looks in despair every time he appears on TV. WW is dumfounded and so is everyone else while we wait for June 12th - or before. WW will not allow more time or water under the bridge for much longer. He can't.

I know two girls who are so unsure where things are headed that they cry every day. This attitude by unions who live in the 70's is unforgivable. They don't think that, but the papers do and the overall staff of BA do. But do BASSA give a damn? No they do not. They will NOT win, though they think they will, the strikers will be bought to account, though they think they won't. But one thing is certain AND THIS SHOULD BE GOTTEN THROUGH THEIR THICK HEADS, WW will not give in. BASSA/UNITE have taken it too far. UNITE will rue the day they allowed themselves to get into bed with BASSA.

Those in BASSA who have resigned their membership can watch with interest how their colleagues who have not done so, are being led by the nose to the slaughter house. It will not be a pretty sight.

The wonderful girls of BA who have stuck by BA can feel proud that they took the right stance. The public will welcome you back. I truly believe that they will.

[dudleydick]

I have read (and heard on TV) that 10% of BA's regular fliers have changed allegiance permananetly to other airlines. Is there any substansive proof of this? Where does this figure come from? Thumb suck?

[Teessider53]

By reading this forum and talking to many people it is obvious that most sympathy lies with BA and not with the cabin crew who voted for industrial action. It seems that the majority are being led bad a hard line attitude of the unions that lie back in the 1970's.
It is not hard to see where this could end up - with BA going to the wall and them all being out of work.
I feel really sorry for the cc who just want to get on with their jobs and provide a good service to their passengers. The strikers do not give a toss to the misery and disruption that they are causing by their greed and/or stupidity denying many people what they have saved up all year for.
I come from the North East where many workers have felt real hardship ie CORUS and Garlands going to the wall - they dont get or never did any flight perks etc.
Must agree with posters who commented on that painted witch on court steps and on the omnibus - wouldn't like to have her as cc on my flight - though it would keep the kids quiet.
Seriously though ditch the bullying hardliners and keep your jobs or just resign -there are many in the North East who would take your place

[bizdev]

Nuclear Option

A number of posters over the past few weeks have mentioned that WW should/would/wll use the nuclear option i.e. sack the militants and take the 'hit' (fine) at the tribunals which would likely follow.

If I was in WW's position I would most likely resort to this option in order to stem the ongoing bleeding of customer confidence, but hasn't (yet), and I wonder why. Well he is obviously cleverer than I am (I am not in charge of one of the world's largest airlines) and he has access to Legal and HR expertise that I could only dream of - plus a strategic planning department (I assume) with experts in scenario planing (probably) - so is he holding his powder dry until the right moment or is there something that I am missing?

It got me wondering - what would happen if WW went Nuclear? What would Unite do? Would this trigger the mobilisation of the whole of the Unite group of unions or even the rest of the UK Trade Unions - a general strike - as this would set a worrying precedence for the trade union movement as a whole? Could we see the police charging the barricades with horses like in the miners strike, and country-wide protest?

Just a thought
Bizdev

[Snas]

It's worth bearing in mind, though, that the Employment Tribunal has the power to order reinstatement.

Out of 151,000 cases last year, 7 were awarded reinstatement - like those odds?

Annual Reports

Extract: -
Employment Tribunals accepted 151,000 claims in 2008/9, a decrease of
20% on the 2007/8 figure (189,300), but an increase of 14% on the
2006/7 figure of 132,600.

The total receipts figure for 2007/8 includes over 10,000 multiple claims
from Airline employees (cabin crew) that have been resubmitted a
number of times during the year. Excluding these suggests that there has
been a decrease of 4% in accepted claims between 2007/8 and 2008/9.

[What the Fug]

Still cannot understand what this argument is about, but get the feeling that what an old miner said to me is rather apt

Joe Gormley never called us out unless he thought we could win



Not very comfortable about living in a country were BA tactic rule though

[pvmw]

It got me wondering - what would happen if WW went Nuclear? What would Unite do? Would this trigger the mobilisation of the whole of the Unite group of unions or even the rest of the UK Trade Unions - a general strike -

Could you actually imagine anyone who is a member of any other part of Unite going on strike in support of BASSA?? There is no support for them outside their own little world. Even McClusky has done a runner. I'm sure the militants think everyone else will support them, but we've been seeing for the last year how deluded they are.

Come on WW, This nonsense has gone on long enough. Put an end to it once and for all. Sack the strikers and replace them with people who want to work rather than ride the gravy train. The passengers, shareholders, rest of the workforce and the GOOD CC will all support you.

[Hotel Mode]

Hotel Mode

Yes, the company can refuse to comply with a reinstatement order, but there are two consequences. Firstly, an additional amount of compensation (not strictly a fine) can be awarded for the failure to reinstate. Secondly, the cap on compensation for unfair dismissal is lifted, so there is no limit on the amount of compensation that can be awarded.

Its not unlimited, its very limited, see below. Tribunals hardly ever call for reinstatement anyhow. Especially where the return of said employee is likely to cause problems, something I dont think BA would have much trouble proving.

Unfair Dismissal Claims: The Additional Award
Should the employer fail to comply with a tribunal order to reinstate or re-engage the employee, the tribunal can award 26-52 weeks pay in addition to the basic and compensatory awards.

.

Given the amount BA will save on lower basics for new staff its still a big win for BA should they wish to use this route.

[Parsnip]

Joe Gormley never called us out unless he thought we could win

so very very true WTF
I'm a ppl I dont pretend to be an airline employee but I've had more hard end IR experience than most on here, and most of that in the late 70s early 80s when we were big lads taking on Mrs Thatcher.
This strike is doomed to fail, the world has moved on but for christs sake what on earth are the BA board doing keeping on this muppet WW who manages to lose them £500M annually. Sack him and maybe the airline will survive to fly another day.................................

[ChicoG]

This strike is doomed to fail, the world has moved on but for christs sake what on earth are the BA board doing keeping on this muppet WW who manages to lose them £500M annually. Sack him and maybe the airline will survive to fly another day.

Have you been in a cave for the last 18 months?

Do you know how many airlines have gone bankrupt through loss of business?

Do you know how many airline employees have lost their jobs since the start of the financial crisis? (Did you even notice there was a financial crisis?).

Do you know how much these striking militants have cost BA in that time?

How much the winter lockdown and the ash cloud cost the airline?

Walsh is there with the backing of the board of BA and its shareholders. He is probably the only reason it hasn't already gone down the toilet.

And this despite the best efforts of some of the most expensive cabin crew workforce in the industry - most of which goes to the very overpaid BASSA troublemakers that are driving the airline to the wall.

I would suggest you start reading up on what has happened both in the industry and the global economy before you make any more ludicrous and flippant statements like the above.

[moleytt]

Originally Posted by RTR

I felt so sorry for the girls and boys who desperately want this nonsense of a strike bought to end. .

Having also been reading the main CC thread, I totally agree with you on this.

From some of the CC who have posted, it's clear they are getting really upset about the criticism being dished out to CC in general without regard to those who didn't strike and who are trying to keep BA flying. I think this should be remembered when posting on here - there are many devoted CC who shouldn't be tarred with the same brush as the striking minority.

Originally Posted by RTR

The wonderful girls of BA who have stuck by BA can feel proud that they took the right stance. The public will welcome you back. I truly believe that they will.

Absolutely. They get my vote

moleytt

[bubblesuk]

I doubt very much the public will welcome them back, if any public do care about this strike then i doubt they will have much ,if any, sympathy or empathy for them. lets not forget that out in the real world many,many thousends of people have lost jobs, had hours and wages cut etc. Some have to survive on minimum wage, so why would they give two hoots about the highest paid CC hanging on to allready very good wages? The simple answer is they won't. the only time the public will care is if they are wondering if their flights will go ahead or not. There is a perception that CC are little more than airheaded trolly dollies (not mine i hasten to add) and they and their unions baffling drive towards self destruction only reinforces that perception.

[jetset lady]

bubblesuk,

I suspect moleytt and RTR are talking about those of us that are NOT striking.

Jsl

[Hotel Mode]

but for christs sake what on earth are the BA board doing keeping on this muppet WW who manages to lose them £500M annually. Sack him and maybe the airline will survive to fly another day.................................

Go have a read of Air Frances annual results, and no doubt Luftys when they come out then come back and say that. They are are in a much worse revenue/loss situation.

Key points - Loss of 1.559 bn Euros - £1.35bn, revenue down 4.0 bn Euros.

[AlpineSkier]

@Hotel Mode

Since you are apparently Flight Crew can you please say what can be done - if anything - to alleviate the position of crew who are 'sent to Coventry" down route (see CC thread for recent example )

I don't see how people can be forced to socialise, but equally see the humiliating power of someone being ostracised outside work

[interpreter]

When all this is over

There are going to be a great number of unhappy CC when this dispute ends - and of course the only "happy" ones still on full pay and benefits are messrs Woodley and Simpson. However, seeing the performance outside the courts yesterday and witnessing some of the theatricals of the strikers I can only assume recruitment has gone "downmarket". In the old days BA CC were considered the creme de la creme and they behaved accordingly. The old ones must be turning in their graves. I was fortunate a couple of years ago to sit down to a dinner next to one of the first Air Stewardesses on the Comet 1s. Well educated, articulate, charming and very much the "old school" How standards have dropped.

[Mariner9]

An overiding puzzle to me in this dispute is if only a couple of thousand CC went on strike, why the heck have the other 8,000 or so BASSA members not resigned their BASSA membership in protest at BASSA's actions? I know a few have resigned, but it appears to be a small number. Presumably anyone still a member of BASSA must be in agreement with the dispute, despite working through the IA

From this, it follows that even if BA sack the 2,000 or so strikers, the remaining BASSA members will still be in dispute.

Perhaps explains why WW has not summarily dismissed those who went on strike last time.

[Hotel Mode]

Since you are apparently Flight Crew can you please say what can be done - if anything - to alleviate the position of crew who are 'sent to Coventry" down route (see CC thread for recent example )

Difficult one, as we wont often know its happening. I've noticed an increase in the number who come out with us flight crew as we tend to be less likely to jump on either opinion (believe it or not!). The trouble is that the BASSA 100% brigade are so convinced they are right that they simply dont accept any other opinion.

Sending someone to coventry downroute is a specific offence in the disciplinary code in BA, so the bullies are taking a risk if discovered.