Mega Merged: REX Recruitment/Cadetship and Working for REX
REX to put the "Slipper" in!
Those of you unfamiliar with the term, it is sometimes refered to as "Laying in the boot". Best performed when an opponent is at a disadvantage, and usually administered by spineless and unscrupolous individuals only when they are assured that the opponent is unlikely to fight back!
The standing joke that has been the REX EBA negotiation will soon be coming to it's finale. Sadly the integrity of one side of the "negotiation" falls far short of deserving the professionalism and hard work of the other!
Reading between the lines of the latest AFAP memo to REX pilots, it seems that REX management, along with the board are about to lower the boom on this whole fiasco. Popular thinking has it that far from seeking to have the REX pilots terms and Conditions (as substandard as they are) remaining static, a situation that many believed was the agenda all along, REX may now seek to revise down the "offer" (curious as there has been no offer) to something less than what REX pilots are alredy on!!! As the now expired EBA barely kept place with the cost of living (unless of course you are a management stooge living in a regional centre), then any variation down of the current Terms and Conditions will equate to a pay cut. It is also widely mooted that any form of back-pay to July 08 is something the Company will also not entertain.
So what have the REXPC got to show for all their hard work? Unfortunately, it is what I have predicted all along. I have watched from the sidelines as the hardworking (pro-bono I might add) and well intentioned representatives have given their all to find common ground and an equitable solution. What have the company done to date? What they always have done. Sweet F#@K All! And why should they. All they had to do was delay, and every now and then make encourageing noises, just enough to keep the pilots on the hook. But at the end of the day, they had absolutely no intention of ever negotiating in good faith.
But don't believe me boys and girls. When the "Slipper goes in", you'll know what I mean.
The standing joke that has been the REX EBA negotiation will soon be coming to it's finale. Sadly the integrity of one side of the "negotiation" falls far short of deserving the professionalism and hard work of the other!
Reading between the lines of the latest AFAP memo to REX pilots, it seems that REX management, along with the board are about to lower the boom on this whole fiasco. Popular thinking has it that far from seeking to have the REX pilots terms and Conditions (as substandard as they are) remaining static, a situation that many believed was the agenda all along, REX may now seek to revise down the "offer" (curious as there has been no offer) to something less than what REX pilots are alredy on!!! As the now expired EBA barely kept place with the cost of living (unless of course you are a management stooge living in a regional centre), then any variation down of the current Terms and Conditions will equate to a pay cut. It is also widely mooted that any form of back-pay to July 08 is something the Company will also not entertain.
So what have the REXPC got to show for all their hard work? Unfortunately, it is what I have predicted all along. I have watched from the sidelines as the hardworking (pro-bono I might add) and well intentioned representatives have given their all to find common ground and an equitable solution. What have the company done to date? What they always have done. Sweet F#@K All! And why should they. All they had to do was delay, and every now and then make encourageing noises, just enough to keep the pilots on the hook. But at the end of the day, they had absolutely no intention of ever negotiating in good faith.
But don't believe me boys and girls. When the "Slipper goes in", you'll know what I mean.
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Like you Krusty I am quite despondant at the 'negotiations'. The stalling tactics whilst pilots were in demand was quite disgraceful, followed by a 'you will sign now' (for an offer that never materialised formally) - now a yet to be determined revision downwards of the package. Seems to me there is only 2 choices left - withdraw labour in some form or sign on the dotted line and we all know that only a minority would be willing to go through with the unpleasantries of strike action. So sadly we kneel down, remove our hats and.....
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If there is an EBA put forward which equates to a "pay cut" all flying should immediately stop.
Cut the "I am a spineless nobody" crap and stand up and be counted.
If you have put yourself in a position where you are bent over a barrel by a little w@nker tough titties, why should we all suffer.
Join the union pussies, you are an embarrassment to real men everywhere.
Cut the "I am a spineless nobody" crap and stand up and be counted.
If you have put yourself in a position where you are bent over a barrel by a little w@nker tough titties, why should we all suffer.
Join the union pussies, you are an embarrassment to real men everywhere.
Disgraceful is probably too kind a term Pretzal, but I certainly hear ya'. I think most people, once they have been kicked whilst down, will feel the need to respond. But how to do it?
Protected industrial action is a crock. A piss weak hangover from the previous government that created so many obstacles many people simply give up in frustration! Also, any sort of "organised" industrial action in the current climate will lead to a customer backlash, and trust me, we will be seen as the bad guys. REX management won't care, they'll simply cancel flights and blame the "greedy" pilots! Christ, when the best and brightest were walking out the door in droves, and REX didn't lift a finger, JD even resorted to veiled accusations when pilots legitimately went sick! What do you think they'll resort to this time?
Make no mistake, we are dealing with a ruthless and determined enemy. An enemy that has the resources to follow their own agenda ($6 mil for a Cadet program, $660K to date for a flawed PC tablet trim system) yet not one cent for additional Sim training in the light of an inflexible check system and record failures!
Forget industrial action. We'll just be playing into their hands. REX's strong financial position is ironically our greatest obstacle. So what can we do?
The second tier are the Check and Trainers. On numerous ocassions they have been called upon to fill the gaps when no line Captain has been available or willing to sacrifice his/her day off. How often have you guys been pressured to save the day. C'mon be fair dinkum. Do you honestly think you are benefitting any of us in the long run. The company won't go broke, but they may just get an appreciation for the realities of the situation.
Do it for a month guys, and see what happens. I think you'll be surprised. It really is the only weapon we have!
P.S. Exactamondo No1Dear.
Protected industrial action is a crock. A piss weak hangover from the previous government that created so many obstacles many people simply give up in frustration! Also, any sort of "organised" industrial action in the current climate will lead to a customer backlash, and trust me, we will be seen as the bad guys. REX management won't care, they'll simply cancel flights and blame the "greedy" pilots! Christ, when the best and brightest were walking out the door in droves, and REX didn't lift a finger, JD even resorted to veiled accusations when pilots legitimately went sick! What do you think they'll resort to this time?
Make no mistake, we are dealing with a ruthless and determined enemy. An enemy that has the resources to follow their own agenda ($6 mil for a Cadet program, $660K to date for a flawed PC tablet trim system) yet not one cent for additional Sim training in the light of an inflexible check system and record failures!
Forget industrial action. We'll just be playing into their hands. REX's strong financial position is ironically our greatest obstacle. So what can we do?
- STOP WORKING ON DAYS OFF NOW!!!
The second tier are the Check and Trainers. On numerous ocassions they have been called upon to fill the gaps when no line Captain has been available or willing to sacrifice his/her day off. How often have you guys been pressured to save the day. C'mon be fair dinkum. Do you honestly think you are benefitting any of us in the long run. The company won't go broke, but they may just get an appreciation for the realities of the situation.
Do it for a month guys, and see what happens. I think you'll be surprised. It really is the only weapon we have!
P.S. Exactamondo No1Dear.
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G'day Krusty. Whilst I agree the Captains are in demand and will (hopefully) have some leverage/negotiating power as a result, I don’t think it’s the same for all the FO’s. Over the last few months I’ve seen a dramatic change:
- On single reserves, they don’t get called in
- On each roster they lose many days work and get put on reserve as the sectors were needed for ‘training’ (given to the cadets maybe??)
- A number of guys on the next roster, in a two week period have a grand total of 4 rostered days work, the rest being reserve or RDO.
-
So, it does indeed look like we’re bottom heavy. We’ve gone from one extreme to the other!
Personally I’m stunned at the contempt being shown for the hard working (and we really do work hard!) girls and boys at this company. I can’t see the point of it. I know the other major players aren’t recruiting at the moment, and are unlikely to in the near future, but they WILL at some point. Do they really think everyone’s going to stomach this and decide to stay when the doors open again? Maybe I’m missing something….
- On single reserves, they don’t get called in
- On each roster they lose many days work and get put on reserve as the sectors were needed for ‘training’ (given to the cadets maybe??)
- A number of guys on the next roster, in a two week period have a grand total of 4 rostered days work, the rest being reserve or RDO.
-
So, it does indeed look like we’re bottom heavy. We’ve gone from one extreme to the other!
Personally I’m stunned at the contempt being shown for the hard working (and we really do work hard!) girls and boys at this company. I can’t see the point of it. I know the other major players aren’t recruiting at the moment, and are unlikely to in the near future, but they WILL at some point. Do they really think everyone’s going to stomach this and decide to stay when the doors open again? Maybe I’m missing something….
Mate, you're not missing a thing!
Actions speak louder than any words with these characters. It has to be action however that will be effective. At the moment the only effective action is for everyone (although mostly Captains now)to stop working on their days off. The poor F/O's (and I use that term litteraly) are now finding out just how impossible it is to live on $10-$15K below the national average wage (discraceful!), now that the option of overtime is no longer there! The problem is, that particular situation is unlikely to change, so the fight must, and quite appropriately be led from the top.
The second action that should move the company into rational thought will be the inevitable return to recruitment by the major airlines. Sadly it will take another bleeding of experienced pilots, and with the utter contempt being shown to them at the moment, very few if any will elect to stay. next time they will not be replaceable!
Don't hold your breath for REX to see the light in the meantime. The Chairman, the board, and our illustrious senior management have their heads so far up their collective backsides in this matter, that not even a 1,000 watt landing light could enlighten them!
For now though, think very carefully when crewing call you on your day off, and then ask yourself the question. How much am I really worth? It's not 1/4 of what they are paying Virgin and even Jetstar pilots, and it certainly aint' 20% less than what they were paying us 21 years ago!
And that's the real issue. The more REX management are allowed to get away with, the more they'll continue to lay the boot in. Untill one day our pay and conditions will be the joke of the airline industry.
Ooops! Silly me, we're already there
Actions speak louder than any words with these characters. It has to be action however that will be effective. At the moment the only effective action is for everyone (although mostly Captains now)to stop working on their days off. The poor F/O's (and I use that term litteraly) are now finding out just how impossible it is to live on $10-$15K below the national average wage (discraceful!), now that the option of overtime is no longer there! The problem is, that particular situation is unlikely to change, so the fight must, and quite appropriately be led from the top.
The second action that should move the company into rational thought will be the inevitable return to recruitment by the major airlines. Sadly it will take another bleeding of experienced pilots, and with the utter contempt being shown to them at the moment, very few if any will elect to stay. next time they will not be replaceable!
Don't hold your breath for REX to see the light in the meantime. The Chairman, the board, and our illustrious senior management have their heads so far up their collective backsides in this matter, that not even a 1,000 watt landing light could enlighten them!
For now though, think very carefully when crewing call you on your day off, and then ask yourself the question. How much am I really worth? It's not 1/4 of what they are paying Virgin and even Jetstar pilots, and it certainly aint' 20% less than what they were paying us 21 years ago!
And that's the real issue. The more REX management are allowed to get away with, the more they'll continue to lay the boot in. Untill one day our pay and conditions will be the joke of the airline industry.
Ooops! Silly me, we're already there
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 16th Apr 2009 at 12:29.
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Who are you? What's your story?
Krusty,
I admire your input into these forums regarding the REX cadetship and company in general. Thank you on behalf of us readers, it can certainly be entertaining at times.
Though, I would like to know how you are able to justify some of the evidence you put forward? I've read in some of your posts, you claim to sit on the sidelines and watch Rex very closely; Though I am confused but eager to know why you have such a fiercely invested interest in Rex?
I know where you stand. But I don’t know why, how, or when?
I admire your input into these forums regarding the REX cadetship and company in general. Thank you on behalf of us readers, it can certainly be entertaining at times.
Though, I would like to know how you are able to justify some of the evidence you put forward? I've read in some of your posts, you claim to sit on the sidelines and watch Rex very closely; Though I am confused but eager to know why you have such a fiercely invested interest in Rex?
I know where you stand. But I don’t know why, how, or when?
Morning fogap.
As you can appreciate, these are anonymous forums and the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what is apparent!
Having said that, I have always endeavoured to post information that I believe is accurate. The problem is, there are vested interests within REX who would rather the truth to remain convienently concealed. Can't let certain realities get in the way of our agenda can we! It's not a REX phenomena, it's probably true of most reasonably large companys.
I've been dealing with and also sitting on the sidelines with regard to airline management for the better part of 20 years, and I can tell you one dissapointing fact, they have without exception, regarded the constuctive interaction with their pilot groups as an annoyance rather than an asset. In all the negotiations that I have been a part of, It has always fell to the pilot representitive body to keep the ball rolling, and to maintain the impetus with regard to the issues concerning industrial relations, including EBA "negotiations". Management have never shown the slightest interest in this regard. And REX are no different. As I have stated previously, the current REXPC have done everything short of move Heaven and Earth to find common ground and constuctive dialogue with these characters, and it has all been for nought!
That is what pisses me, and the majority of REX pilots off!
As to who I am? The reality is that some would be extremely surprised. Especially those who think they know who I am. Sorry "B" just keep fending them off like a good chap. I'll buy you a beer when we catch up next!
As you can appreciate, these are anonymous forums and the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what is apparent!
Having said that, I have always endeavoured to post information that I believe is accurate. The problem is, there are vested interests within REX who would rather the truth to remain convienently concealed. Can't let certain realities get in the way of our agenda can we! It's not a REX phenomena, it's probably true of most reasonably large companys.
I've been dealing with and also sitting on the sidelines with regard to airline management for the better part of 20 years, and I can tell you one dissapointing fact, they have without exception, regarded the constuctive interaction with their pilot groups as an annoyance rather than an asset. In all the negotiations that I have been a part of, It has always fell to the pilot representitive body to keep the ball rolling, and to maintain the impetus with regard to the issues concerning industrial relations, including EBA "negotiations". Management have never shown the slightest interest in this regard. And REX are no different. As I have stated previously, the current REXPC have done everything short of move Heaven and Earth to find common ground and constuctive dialogue with these characters, and it has all been for nought!
That is what pisses me, and the majority of REX pilots off!
As to who I am? The reality is that some would be extremely surprised. Especially those who think they know who I am. Sorry "B" just keep fending them off like a good chap. I'll buy you a beer when we catch up next!
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isn't there a government "fairness test" applied to new eba's to ensure no-one is disadvantaged by a new award?
wake up son!
IF LKH can get a 3%, or less, EBA thru a vote and have it ratified by the dept of industrial relations amid an economy of doom and gloom.... do you HONESTLY think KRUDD's government will say "hey... stop oppressing pilots!" ???
Unfortunately KRUSTY is right on the mark with his statements. IF I were a REX pilot, and relied on working RDO's, and was asked to STOP.... well, I would. but only IF I knew that all pilots were taking the same stand! Unfortunately it is a fragmented pilot body with little union backing. Lawrie Cox et al, make all the right noises, but rarely stand up for the pilots!
IF, I were a REX pilot, I would stop working RDO's IF 70% of the pilots were AFAP members, AND, the AFAP would suspend membership of management pilots to the AFAP.
Unfortunately, making a stand at REX, as a minority is only asking for extra attention.... and trouble! Certain managers there single you out and try to intimidate you into "toeing the line" as they see it.
One management pilot has had a great many complaints made against him by OTHER pilots, and the AFAP refuse to get involved because both sides are AFAP members! Whilst I realise it is not as black and white as we all would like it, pilots vs Management pilots is a no-win situation for the future of aviation in Australia. The AFAP either need to have the fortitude to suspend membership of pilots who take management positions.... or get out of "representing" aviation in those companies.
with less than about 70% of pilots willing to join the AFAP/TWU or whatever union they decide should represent them, the case for industrial action is weak.... and LKH and his cronies know it! they can keep on playing games for years to come, knowing that PIA is NEVER going to happen!!!!!
KRUSTY... keep fighting the good fight, my man...... and good luck!
They have been cutting our wages for years indamiddle!
Whenever management comes to the pilot group as in '96 and pleads for a 2 year wage freeze because times are tough, and promiss to make it up at the next EBA, Pilot Group agrees for the greater good. 2 years later Management renegs!!! Fact!
Parent airline goes t!ts up in 2001. New EBA signed after no negotiation by new owners. Reduced terms and conditions with wages set at the previous EBA rate. Another kick whilst down. 2 years later management ask for a 2 year wage freeze (remembering that wages are now at rates that are 3 years old, and 6 years out of date!) with a promiss to make it up at the next EBA. Pilot group accepts for the greater good. Can you see a pattern here? At next EBA Company states that times are still tough! Are they ever not tough!? Instead of making it up to the pilot group, company proposes pay rise less than inflation, and a profit share system. Pilot group asks for what was promissed. Company says "Take it or leave it". without leverage, pilot group reluctantly accepts. Company rejoices.
Current EBA has now been expired for nearly a year. In that time the company has not had to pay wages that are in anyway adjusted for CPI. Company tells Pilot Reps that backpay will not be paid, shortly after announcing a record profit! Win Win for company.
Rex Pilots wages are now approximately 20% less in real terms to what their counterparts were earning 15 years ago. Sucessive managements are aware of this and have embraced this situation with relish. Even though wages remain static, the tactics employed to obtain this have resulted and will continue to result in a real wage cut!
And the fair pay commision don't even rate a mention.
Whenever management comes to the pilot group as in '96 and pleads for a 2 year wage freeze because times are tough, and promiss to make it up at the next EBA, Pilot Group agrees for the greater good. 2 years later Management renegs!!! Fact!
Parent airline goes t!ts up in 2001. New EBA signed after no negotiation by new owners. Reduced terms and conditions with wages set at the previous EBA rate. Another kick whilst down. 2 years later management ask for a 2 year wage freeze (remembering that wages are now at rates that are 3 years old, and 6 years out of date!) with a promiss to make it up at the next EBA. Pilot group accepts for the greater good. Can you see a pattern here? At next EBA Company states that times are still tough! Are they ever not tough!? Instead of making it up to the pilot group, company proposes pay rise less than inflation, and a profit share system. Pilot group asks for what was promissed. Company says "Take it or leave it". without leverage, pilot group reluctantly accepts. Company rejoices.
Current EBA has now been expired for nearly a year. In that time the company has not had to pay wages that are in anyway adjusted for CPI. Company tells Pilot Reps that backpay will not be paid, shortly after announcing a record profit! Win Win for company.
Rex Pilots wages are now approximately 20% less in real terms to what their counterparts were earning 15 years ago. Sucessive managements are aware of this and have embraced this situation with relish. Even though wages remain static, the tactics employed to obtain this have resulted and will continue to result in a real wage cut!
And the fair pay commision don't even rate a mention.
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The simple truth, Krusty34, is that the person at the top who is meant to represent the pilots, has failed them magnificently.
He who is meant to represent the pilot group, goes to EBA meetings and sits on the Company's side of the table and fights against the pilots, not for them.
Gets paid in performance bonuses and share gifts based on profits, which is a MASSIVE conflict of interest. Tells everyone safety is first priority of operation, but spends his whole day worrying about saving money and cutting costs.
While these management pilots bleed line pilots dry and are rewarded with big bonuses for doing it, nothing will change.
He who is meant to represent the pilot group, goes to EBA meetings and sits on the Company's side of the table and fights against the pilots, not for them.
Gets paid in performance bonuses and share gifts based on profits, which is a MASSIVE conflict of interest. Tells everyone safety is first priority of operation, but spends his whole day worrying about saving money and cutting costs.
While these management pilots bleed line pilots dry and are rewarded with big bonuses for doing it, nothing will change.
Mate, I've been saying it for years.
If I had my way, the Chief Pilot, GMFO, or whatever they choose to call themselves these day, would be banned from any industrial business!
If I had my way, the Chief Pilot, GMFO, or whatever they choose to call themselves these day, would be banned from any industrial business!
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That is what pisses me, and the majority of REX pilots off!
Thanks mate - more than enough said.
I've liaised with several cadets from previous intakes and also the upcoming May intake, and I find one thing common between most: Their intentions are to get in, get hours, and move on as quick as possible - they all admit the pay won't suffice to live (especially if Rex want them posted in SYD) and are prepared to break the financial 6 year bond for a better paying job. Whether this will be a common reality, who knows...
Sure, I agree if there was more industrial action that EBA ""negotiations"" might actually have a life by support of a union and hence pilot actions may have a dent in the next EBA; so I ask, with 54 cadets across the 4 intakes, if we could convince most of them to join a union, by the time they struggle their way up the seniority list, could we have some chance of 'pilot power'?
....hmm, didn't think that one through - how do we convince them to join?
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hey everybody,
sorry if this is a little off track but i've been reading through this forum seeing as I was considering applying for the rex cadetship but after absorbing all the info on here I was just after a little guidance..
I'm only 18 and I finished school with good grades last year, I'm at uni doing psychology at the moment... but I want to get into aviation.
I understand the industry is in a bit of a downturn at the moment but if I was to go to a flight school and get my diploma and around 170 hours together - is there any employability in this?
I know people say to go bush, but isn't that what everybody else has got planned (ie. no jobs)?
I'm not too sure, but getting locked into 7 years with rex doesn't sound like a better idea..
Also, would getting my CIR help my cause alot when I'm done?
Bearing in mind this would all be in a years time - hopefully it'll be a healthier climate then...
ANY help would be great!
sorry if this is a little off track but i've been reading through this forum seeing as I was considering applying for the rex cadetship but after absorbing all the info on here I was just after a little guidance..
I'm only 18 and I finished school with good grades last year, I'm at uni doing psychology at the moment
... but I want to get into aviation.I understand the industry is in a bit of a downturn at the moment but if I was to go to a flight school and get my diploma and around 170 hours together - is there any employability in this?
I know people say to go bush, but isn't that what everybody else has got planned (ie. no jobs)?
I'm not too sure, but getting locked into 7 years with rex doesn't sound like a better idea..
Also, would getting my CIR help my cause alot when I'm done?
Bearing in mind this would all be in a years time - hopefully it'll be a healthier climate then...
ANY help would be great!
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Stay in Uni !!
6 years in the RHS in REX and no real prior experience will not get you a step further in aviation.....and don't believe there will be an ICUS program anytime soon for promo to the LHS.
Stay in Uni!! Get that professional degree first, so that you have something solid behind you.
Stay in Uni!! Get that professional degree first, so that you have something solid behind you.
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KRUSTY34, if the situation on pay and T&C's is as dire as you portray it (and I have no reason to doubt that), why don't you team up some like-minded colleagues and take REX to the Workplace Ombudsman (or whatever other body will hear you) and take the fight to the company? Forget the lame-@ss union or the other entities you cannot control, take some action that you can control!
Seems you'd have a pretty good case, and the culture in REX management literally seem to ask for such a response from their employees as they seem to think they can import a foreign work ethic and just rule the company as they seem fit -- unfortunately, so far, they seem to get away with it, which in itself is noteworthy, but that's a different discussion I guess..
Seems you'd have a pretty good case, and the culture in REX management literally seem to ask for such a response from their employees as they seem to think they can import a foreign work ethic and just rule the company as they seem fit -- unfortunately, so far, they seem to get away with it, which in itself is noteworthy, but that's a different discussion I guess..
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Hi Everyone,
Bahoona: its really good you are going to uni and want to be a pilot. I am currently doing the same, I am studying Information Technology at Uni and am also learning to fly part time on the weekends. Its hard but its worth it. I have been flying since last July and have 42 hours so far, about to get my GFPT. Its good to have a degree as a backup just in case there is a downturn in the industry like there is at the moment.
My long-term plan was to go to uni, get a job, save up, do full-time training, work as an instructor/REX cadet, become a F/O somewhere.
I finish uni this year so I am planning for the next few years now, just wondering if anyone has any advice? Anyone who has gone from full-time work/uni and taken the big risk of leaving their job to do training and become a pilot? I initially thought the REX cadetship sounded like the best option but from what I have read on these forums I am having doubts!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Bahoona: its really good you are going to uni and want to be a pilot. I am currently doing the same, I am studying Information Technology at Uni and am also learning to fly part time on the weekends. Its hard but its worth it. I have been flying since last July and have 42 hours so far, about to get my GFPT. Its good to have a degree as a backup just in case there is a downturn in the industry like there is at the moment.
My long-term plan was to go to uni, get a job, save up, do full-time training, work as an instructor/REX cadet, become a F/O somewhere.
I finish uni this year so I am planning for the next few years now, just wondering if anyone has any advice? Anyone who has gone from full-time work/uni and taken the big risk of leaving their job to do training and become a pilot? I initially thought the REX cadetship sounded like the best option but from what I have read on these forums I am having doubts!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated