A bit of coherent talk from Twitter, is it?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...045861890.html

(military aviation + Ukraine conflict content)

https://twitter.com/LivFaustDieJung/status/1595206514045861890

The thing that REALLY worries me is when the damage to Ukrainian infrastructure becomes so great that Ukraine has to consider taking major action outside its borders. There is some evidence that they may have been making small attacks, sabotaging facilities in Russia, but no positive proof that this hasn't been done by Russians that are opposed to the war. Kyiv is now without power, Russia having just knocked it out.

Russia seems to believe that they can get Ukraine to stop opposing their invasion by doing this. My reading of the runes is that Ukraine will do no such thing, every time Russia ramps up attacks it just seems to make Ukraine even more determined. I fear that, sooner or later, there will be a Ukrainian attack on a major Russian city. I think it's naive to assume that Ukraine isn't busy developing and building long range weapons with the capability to do this. Until now they've stuck firmly to a policy of just defending their own sovereign territory, but how long is that policy going to hold out?

I'm sure that a fair bit of the aid being given to Ukraine is dependent on assurances that Ukraine will not escalate their defence efforts beyond their own borders, but if the situation becomes desperate enough this winter, then who knows what they will do?

BREAKING: EU parliament votes in favour of labelling Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism

Do we let Putin destroy Ukraine or do we show some ball$ and provide Ukraine with the means to hit Russian infrastructure?

Or even..

About time. Now for the rest to follow suit.

Vlad has taken the low road, and ended up being declared a terrorist state. It is important for Ukraine to have greater range of their munitions, to protect those from Russian counter battery, but Ukraine cannot race Vlad to the bottom, that risks the coalition of support that exists for Ukraine to prevail against Vlad the impaler.

Ukraine needs to win in Ukraine, against the invader, they don't need to be attacking Russian civilians, after all the Russians have already a much worse issue, they have to wake up and look at themselves in the mirror for the next few generations, and know that what looks back is the cause of the failure of their nation, and of what will soon be a distant memory, the Russian Federation. They have no one else to blame.

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting attacking Russian civilians as such, but their infrastructure. Granted, there may unfortunately be civilian casualties among the personnel.

I would imagine hitting Russian substations etc would cause them more grief that Ukraine, at least Ukraine has the west to supply parts for the damaged sub stations. I would imagine a lot of the russian stuff is western supplied.

It's not just a sponsor. Russia is a terrorist state.

Thanks, EU ... a small step forward in recognising the reality.

Now, can we see more sanctions to seriously cripple Putin's evil regime? No, not just the oligarchs: I'm talking about total isolation from ANYTHING that could benefit the RU. Can more be done?

The more I read about the strikes on Ukraine's energy infrastructure with winter upon them, the more I think that the time is fast approaching for physical NATO intervention. A terrorist state as declared by the European Parliament, endless war crimes and the now suffering of innocent millions throughout the winter. Get Ukraine into NATO and blast Putin and his rotten regime out of their country. Missed opportunity with the stray missile, but the time to stop pussy-footing has arrived.

Much as I've been very reluctant for the West to get involved in yet another conflict on foreign soil, I am seriously worried that this view is going to gain more traction over the coming weeks and months. It frankly terrifies me if it were to happen, as our (as in the West's) track record of engaging in military action in foreign lands isn't exactly a glowing recommendation for the idea.

The multibillion dollar question is knowing how Russia might react if the West were to directly intervene, or even just give Ukraine longer range weapons that could strike deep within Russia. I frankly do not trust any of our assessments of Russian capability, as the past 9 months have proved, beyond doubt, that every one of our assessments has been completely wrong. If we can have been so wrong about their military capability, what else have we seriously misjudged about Russia?

The major fear is that the madmen in the Kremlin may choose to do the unthinkable, and use their nuclear weapons. Some assessments of the remaining Russian weapon capability are suggesting that they have few conventional long range missiles left, and at least two reports suggest that long range missiles that landed in Ukraine, but had no warheads, were dummy nukes, perhaps fired as decoys, perhaps fired out of desperation. This war is evolving into a massively more serious phase now, with Russia under severe sanctions, with badly depleted and poorly trained and equipped land forces, having been declared a terrorist state and having expended most of its warstock of reasonably capable conventional weapons. There has to be a risk that the Kremlin may decide they have nothing to lose by using tactical nukes, and that could well be precipitated by the West upping the ante and taking more direct action.

I would not like having to sit around a table in whatever sort of decision conference decides on these things, it seems an almost intractable problem, with no good outcomes.

Much as I've been very reluctant for the West to get involved in yet another conflict on foreign soil, I am seriously worried that this view is going to gain more traction over the coming weeks and months.

Absolutely, and I'm one of them. I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking that if Russia wants a real war (and they are certainly looking for one now) then let's show them we are prepared to give them one. That in itself may convince Putin's mates that it's time to call it a day.

Russia remaking the Godfather…. Badly…

Prigozhin sent the European Parliament a sledgehammer in a violin case with an engraved logo of"Wagner" and traces of "blood" on the handle.

This is the Putin's world, that Ukrainians are fighting alone, giving their lives to stop.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f185aac72.jpeg
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It seems an incredible contradiction to me that it is deemed 'acceptable' for Ruzzia to destroy the power, food and water supplies, housing etc all over a nation but for that nation to respond by damaging any infrastructure in Ruzzia it is thought beyond the pale and called escalatory and antagonistic!
What a ridiculously one-sided imbalance.

As to the SeaKings...WTF does Ukraine need antisubmarine helos for? OK, it would be nice to neutralise the Kilos in the Black Sea but that isn't going to happen with three land-based sonar encumbered Mk5s and no highly skilled A/S crews to operate them, leave alone the necessary ordinance to finish the job. But as the BBC's article depicts Junglies...It seems unlikely that the 'journalists' who scribbled this garbage have a clue of what they speak (do they ever?) so I don't think we're much the wiser. A flight of Mk4s might well be useful up to a point, but are there really not enough familiar and easily supported Mil8s around in Europe to do the job without encumbering Ukraine with an entirely seperate logistics organisation running a mere 3 SeaKings? Gibe them 30 (as if!) and it might make sense, but three?

Come on, MoD, surely we can do better than that? Where are all the Mk4s?

Sounds like unnecessary over complication to me as described, but then again maybe it isn't as the fact-free goons in the meeja have 'described' it...

on the chopper front - I'm not sure 3 Sea Kings is going to do it ........plus the shed full of spares to keep them going for the week.

Ukrainian Flight- and ground-crews have apparently spent some weeks undergoing training. Presumably the Ukrainian forces therefore see some merit in their acquisition.

A good idea would be for every other state to send the Dumas bouquets of sunflowers.

Somehow I cannot get rid of the idea of UKR asking select CEE and EU governments for a joint military / police force assitance WEST of Dnipro and let's say no closer than 60 kms from the Belarusian border. Tell me you are NATO without being NATO.

Build up inland support infrastructure (off-field hospitals, repair stations, food processing...) that would bring along their own AA assets. To free up UKR own resources which could be moved more densely close to the frontline. Having for example's sake an Austrian-Romanian deployment at Borodianka north of Kyiv, covered by a Spanish AA hardware

Keeping people warm and powered up seems to be a delicate task these days, sure. Just being afraid that without a change of gears this will all lead to a bloody stale mate once the Ukranians run out of ammo (literally). With Donetck region under occupation behind an umoveable frontline. That would be a dangerous rooting ground for rashist ideology ever onwards.

And Ukraine deserve better, we deserve to deliver better. Critical opinions welcome.

The potential of ending in a stale mate reinforces the argument for stepping it up sooner rather than later. If there's nothing left and nowhere to go then the 'unthinkable' is more likely in the mind of a cornered lunatic.