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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

NutLoose 21st Nov 2022 22:50


Originally Posted by ChrisVJ (Post 11334869)
Is not relying on one big station far too vulnerable? One good missile and you are bereft. Distributed networks, however clumsy, are far harder to destroy.

These are what they need.

https://www.ft.com/content/ba6bd46a-...a-43db76e69936

As for joining NATO when they eject Russia, if that isn’t a viable goer due to parts of NATO not agreeing then perhaps permanent bases with NATO aircraft in country at say a couple of airfields etc may deter them.

fdr 21st Nov 2022 23:00


Originally Posted by pasta (Post 11334685)
The more I think about this, the more I think that any viable peace deal has to include an acceptance from Russia that Ukraine may join NATO. That's the only meaningful reassurance any Russian administration could give that there won't be a rematch. Without that (and I'm not sure it's achievable) I think we're heading for another uneasy standoff...

There would be no need to join NATO if the UN actually abided by Art. 27(3) and reverted to historical precedent on the meaning of the words, that there is actually no Veto power where the PM that is wanting to "just say No", when they are one of the belligerents are automatically required to abstain from a vote, and that abstention is not nor should it ever have been considered a Veto. That is what the rule says, yet here we are today as the UN is such a dysfunctional system they selectively apply the rules and then feign disappointment that the rule that they misapply stops them having to make a decision. I would contend that the UN as it is run at present is a clear and present danger to civilisation, and needs to be replaced with an institution that actually does the one thing it was supposed to do.

Until then, there is always Paris NATO, or a collective announcement of UN states that they will defend any country that is attacked by [Fill in any term describing Russia, e.g., CIS, RF, Russia, Wish I was a Soviet empire etc...]

NutLoose 21st Nov 2022 23:32

They found an abandoned wounded Russian

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rattman 21st Nov 2022 23:34


Originally Posted by Herod (Post 11334820)
With the temperature dropping rapidly, and many civilians without power, does anyone know of plans to send portable generators out to Ukraine? I imagine the military of the various nations have some pretty big ones.

germany is, they are also requesting that civilians evacuate from Kherson and Mykoliv

NutLoose 21st Nov 2022 23:45

Arresting a couple of Russian soldiers that refuse to take part in the war, watch the film, the cell door in the back of the van has holes in it to allow air in for them to breath, but the outer door has none.. :ugh:


Wokkafans 21st Nov 2022 23:51


NutLoose 22nd Nov 2022 00:17

Cling film tents, Russias latest equipment.


megan 22nd Nov 2022 00:42


the van has holes in it to allow air in for them to breath, but the [b]outer door has none..
Probably to prevent the redirected exhaust gases from escaping

NutLoose 22nd Nov 2022 01:04

Those Russians caught up in it all.

https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/10/...new-residence/

NutLoose 22nd Nov 2022 01:32


Originally Posted by Herod (Post 11334820)
With the temperature dropping rapidly, and many civilians without power, does anyone know of plans to send portable generators out to Ukraine? I imagine the military of the various nations have some pretty big ones.

Lots are, way back in March the U.K. had supplied over 500 alone, Germany has sent over 2400 so far



NutLoose 22nd Nov 2022 01:37

Nothing like treating your troops well, and this is nothing like treating them well.

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Beamr 22nd Nov 2022 05:38


Originally Posted by Herod (Post 11334820)
With the temperature dropping rapidly, and many civilians without power, does anyone know of plans to send portable generators out to Ukraine? I imagine the military of the various nations have some pretty big ones.

Even private companies are sending rather efficient ones, Here's a story of two that were sent to Ukraine last week with combined total power of 1.2MW by an anonymous Finnish company. Apparently other one is today running a hospital in Kropyvnytskyi and other one is on a flatbed being delivered where ever most needed.

https://fb.watch/gY9zStlzf5/

ORAC 22nd Nov 2022 06:38

THE DUMP OF THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER:

Searchers in Kherson have discovered that departing Russians used a local landfill to dump and burn the corpses of their own dead soldiers. Some were burned, others merely buried in trash.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...son-landfillIn


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....16f52d9e9.jpeg
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ORAC 22nd Nov 2022 07:31

NATO Parliamentary Assembly now recognizes Russia as terrorist state. All 30 #NATO countries #supported the proposals of the delegation. NATO call for setting up a special tribunal for Russian warcrimes.

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Herod 22nd Nov 2022 08:54

Nice to see the responses to my query about generators. Seems a lot are going out. Of course they can't replace a power station, but if the hospitals and the vulnerable can be helped through the winter it's a huge bonus.

Usertim 22nd Nov 2022 08:55


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11335030)
THE DUMP OF THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER:

Searchers in Kherson have discovered that departing Russians used a local landfill to dump and burn the corpses of their own dead soldiers. Some were burned, others merely buried in trash.

My friend who was in Kherson until Mid September told me of this back in July, I scarcely believed. She said it was happening 2 or 3 times a week and that there were multiple locations , one in the Tavrik district of the city and more on the outskirts.
Sometimes it was a lot for example after the large strike at the airport that resulted in 200 Russian KIA. As she said at the time
"morgues are filled to the fullest ..many body fragments. all this **** they burn"
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ORAC 22nd Nov 2022 09:12

Note the bit at the end about medics and engineers - British troops being deployed to Ukraine - something not picked up and reported elsewhere..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2228763.html

Power boss asks Ukrainians to leave the country to ease burden on damaged energy network

Citizens of Ukraine have been advised to leave the country – if they can – to help reduce demand on the energy network.

Ukrainians should consider leaving for “three to four months” as it “will be very helpful to the system”, Maxim Timchenko, the head of Ukraine’s biggest private energy supplier, has said.….

Mr Timchenko suggested that people reducing their energy use would help Ukraine win the war. He said: “If you consume less, then hospitals with injured soldiers will have guaranteed power supply. This is how it can be explained that, by consuming less or leaving, they also contribute to other people.”

Fixing the damaged infrastructure is also becoming more difficult as Ukraine has run out of equipment and spare parts. Mr Timchenko called on “partners, government officials, companies and equipment producers to help with the immediate supply of available equipment”….

Meanwhile, Rishi Sunak has visited Ukraine to meet Volodymyr Zelensky, as he announced a new £50m package of air defence support for the country.…

Mr Sunak said: “We are today providing new air defence, including anti-aircraft guns, radar and anti-drone equipment, and stepping up humanitarian support for the cold, hard winter ahead…..

Downing Street said the funding would help provide generators, shelter, water repairs and mobile health clinics, with the UK also sending tens of thousands of extreme-cold winter kits for Ukrainian troops.….

It follows the announcement by defence secretary Ben Wallace earlier this month that
more than 1,000 new anti-air missiles would be provided to Ukraine. The UK is also planning to send army medics and engineers.….

fdr 22nd Nov 2022 09:13


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11334902)
Arresting a couple of Russian soldiers that refuse to take part in the war, watch the film, the cell door in the back of the van has holes in it to allow air in for them to breath, but the outer door has none.. :ugh:
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...C-7Zf-pqEsAAAA

And who calls who "Nazi"? Les Misérables have a heck of a choice, get gassed by the home team, or get turned into seagull tucker on the local dump. The PRO and CON columns of that non trivial choice would be interesting to decipher from the natives of the outer states of the federation of light and music.

FUMR 22nd Nov 2022 10:08

That is without doubt not actually for real. Just a little internal propaganda to scare the conscripts.

ORAC 22nd Nov 2022 10:17

:confused:

​​​​​​​Russian soldier claims there is an evacuation happening in Armiansk, Crimea. In another audio message later, he says they escorted 4 columns. And then also adds that "you will see on 28 [presumably November 28th].


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