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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

[email protected] 30th Dec 2021 07:01

Removing political opponents, promoting fear of foreigners amongst the people, pursuing expansionist policies, controlling the media, massive increase in military spending - all sounds frighteningly similar to 1930's Germany.

Asturias56 30th Dec 2021 08:40

Van has been missing for some time until now - etudiant less so. Often its useful to have the other side's view and in this case I think we're hearing the authentic line from the Russian side

[email protected] 30th Dec 2021 09:16

I don't think there is anything 'authentic' about A Van's posts - just part of his FSB day job.

NutLoose 30th Dec 2021 11:24


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11162429)
I don't think there is anything 'authentic' about A Van's posts - just part of his FSB day job.

yup, you have it in one :E

interestingly I was watching a programme on the Yom Kimpur war and they were saying Syria kept building up forces then reducing them at the border until the actual invasion when the Israelis were lulled into a false sense of security allowing people to go on leave having seen it many times before. It struck me as rather like what Russia is doing.

melmothtw 30th Dec 2021 13:07


interestingly I was watching a programme on the Yom Kimpur war and they were saying Syria kept building up forces then reducing them at the border until the actual invasion when the Israelis were lulled into a false sense of security allowing people to go on leave having seen it many times before. It struck me as rather like what Russia is doing.
Putin himself has form for this, announcing Russia's withdrawal from Syria on more than one occasion.


I don't think there is anything 'authentic' about A Van's posts - just part of his FSB day job.
No doubt, he can explain the high number of Putin opponents who happen to fall out of windows, Russian agents poisoning dissidents in the UK and elsewhere, MH17,...the list goes on.

Beamr 30th Dec 2021 13:19


Originally Posted by melmothtw (Post 11162574)
No doubt, he can explain the high number of Putin opponents who happen to fall out of windows, .

There is something wrong with russian windows. I believe there would be a good market opportunity for quality western windows there. This the latest from 27th Dec

A Russian nationalist who criticised Vladimir Putin and predicted civil war fell to his death from a fifth-floor window in Moscow.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ow-window.html

[email protected] 30th Dec 2021 14:23

What a wonderful country to live in! 20 million incarcerated and/or killed by Stalin, all the State's assets controlled by criminals and no opportunity to criticise or oppose unless you want to be poisoned, shot or dropped from a window........

The Russian people do have a proud history of enduring hardship but are they ready for another Stalingrad?

Beamr 30th Dec 2021 14:50

Sorry to add some aviation content, but the SU-30SM2's will be based to Kaliningrad. It also means that those will be flying via Baltic sea a lot and with traditional Russian approach causing airspace violations along the way. Will create interesting id missions for countries along the route.

https://english.pravda.ru/news/russi...ningrad_su_30/

fitliker 30th Dec 2021 16:16

https://www.washingtonindependentrev...d-on-the-brink

Deja vu ?


Beamr 30th Dec 2021 16:41

The echos of cold war on this Pravda article, I recommend reading to everyone, gives a good idea what is thought in Moscow.

Quote:
East Europeans member-nations will then have to make an important and definitive decision as to where they stand. Such a stand will be a George Bush-style ultimatum of "you're either with us or against us”, and a decision as to whose economic, trading orbit they will join for the next few decades. They can then choose the Western-style, American-guided orbit which provides them almost nothing, or accept a much more realistic, common-sense, regional, trading-partner relationship with its ethnically, socially, and culturally-based next-door neighbour, Russia, which provides them with almost everything they need.
Читайте больше на https://english.pravda.ru/opinion/149987-usa_nato/

[email protected] 30th Dec 2021 16:53

How many mentions of war and needing to choose sides in that piece - all from a self-proclaimed peaceful nation...............

It seems reminiscent of McCarthyism in it's paranoia and demonisation of the other side - the Americans were wrong then and Russia is wrong now.

Tashengurt 30th Dec 2021 17:01


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11162586)
There is something wrong with russian windows. I believe there would be a good market opportunity for quality western windows there. This the latest from 27th Dec

A Russian nationalist who criticised Vladimir Putin and predicted civil war fell to his death from a fifth-floor window in Moscow.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ow-window.html

Well, a good ice pick is hard to find these days.

NutLoose 30th Dec 2021 17:33

And the poisoned Brolley is so yesterday.

Asturias56 31st Dec 2021 07:58

as is exploding or poisoned cigars in Cuba - but that was along time ago as well..............

henra 31st Dec 2021 14:59


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11162688)
It seems reminiscent of McCarthyism in it's paranoia and demonisation of the other side - the Americans were wrong then and Russia is wrong now.

And I have no idea where this is coming from. I can't imagine they really think that 'the West' will invade them. That is absolutely absurd.
I think it is more a wish to go back to old Importance and influence while they see their neighbours walking over to 'the other side' one by one and this making them feeling somewhat lonely and left behind. The regions in Eastern Germany where people saw all the Young leaving towards the booming (South-)western Regions are the most frustrated people you will find in the whole Country. Getting left behind has a deep emotional impact.
At the same time they see China rising and becoming the prime Rival of America and the West on a global scale getting all the attention. It strikes me that Russian provocation and troop build up shifted into next gear just when the Tension over Taiwan rose to new heights and the Pacific Theater was declared the Big One by the US. Feels to me a bit like a child that wants to grab back attention.

Looking into History it is clear that letting go isn't easy for a former Global Super Power. Obama's declaration of Russia as a Regional Power was surely the biggest Insult they ever had to endure.

Less Hair 31st Dec 2021 16:01

Maybe it is a deliberate "burn all bridges"-concept so any future political strategy will have to follow current confrontation logic long term without opening up to the west, democracy or similar? They will likely waste what limited wealth they have left in the process and end up poorer and weaker than before. So what will the next step then have to look like? Nuclear threats?

NutLoose 1st Jan 2022 00:10

Smoke and mirrors Henra, country not doing well, blame others and ramp up the tension with the west to divert your populations attention from home troubles.

etudiant 1st Jan 2022 00:51


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11163307)
Smoke and mirrors Henra, country not doing well, blame others and ramp up the tension with the west to divert your populations attention from home troubles.

Don't know the the economic details, but suspect that Nord Stream 2 would allow Gazprom to recapture almost all of the exorbitant Ukraine gas pipeline transit fees.
Not sure how many people have to die for this.

GlobalNav 1st Jan 2022 04:47


Originally Posted by etudiant (Post 11163317)
Don't know the the economic details, but suspect that Nord Stream 2 would allow Gazprom to recapture almost all of the exorbitant Ukraine gas pipeline transit fees.
Not sure how many people have to die for this.

nobody should die

Asturias56 1st Jan 2022 09:10

NS2 certainly gives Gazprom and any buyer a chance to play one route off against another but that simple market forces Gazprom will still want an economic return on their investment in the Ukraine lines and facilities so they may drop prices. They're probably eyeing the European LNG market as a major target


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