Originally Posted by dead_pan
(Post 11165006)
I'd reply: "No problemo, we'll just leave all the defensive weaponry in place in these countries then"
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F15 Strike Eagle renamed F15 Defence Eagle ;)
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Hmm, we may think this but who knows what shenanigans are going on behind the scenes. https://dailyhistory.org/Why_did_the..._Union_in_1933 |
I suspect a lot can be explained by the Russian mindset which is profoundly coloured by its past experiences, not least in WW2 when the Nazis reached the gates of Moscow. I understand those memories run very deep indeed. I'm not an apologist for Vlad but taking time to understand what drives Russian fears would probably pay considerable dividends, as would some sensitivity to the territorial insecurities that are driven by those past experiences. So - would holding back on Ukrainian membership of NATO, for example, be craven appeasement or sensible realpolitik? I suspect a gesture or two tailored to Russia's historic fears (which could still allow for helping Ukraine to beef up defensively) could pay dividends in terms of de-risking things and lowering tensions. If that's what we want.
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I suspect a lot can be explained by the Russian mindset which is profoundly coloured by its past experiences, not least in WW2 when the Nazis reached the gates of Moscow. I understand those memories run very deep indeed. I'm not an apologist for Vlad but taking time to understand what drives Russian fears would probably pay considerable dividends, as would some sensitivity to the territorial insecurities that are driven by those past experiences. So - would holding back on Ukrainian membership of NATO, for example, be craven appeasement or sensible realpolitik? I suspect a gesture or two tailored to Russia's historic fears (which could still allow for helping Ukraine to beef up defensively) could pay dividends in terms of de-risking things and lowering tensions. If that's what we want. There, fixed it for you. |
Originally Posted by melmothtw
(Post 11165104)
When it comes to Russia's neighbours wanting to join NATO, I suspect a lot can be explained by a mindset which is profoundly coloured by past experiences, not least during the 20th century when the Communists reached and occupied the gates of all of their capital cities.
There, fixed it for you. |
https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...sion-of-europe
The Ukraine crisis will end inevitably in a redivision of Europe |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 11165239)
https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...sion-of-europe
The Ukraine crisis will end inevitably in a redivision of Europe That allows for a much more expansive union while minimizing the political provocation. Promoting the military component before the economic elements are in place is not wise, one risks being a potential partner who is too costly to admit. |
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato...iscuss-russia/
NATO calls extraordinary meeting to discuss Russia |
Originally Posted by etudiant
(Post 11165254)
Sensible policy would be to keep military alliances at arms length, while integrating the economies as much as possible.
That allows for a much more expansive union while minimizing the political provocation. Promoting the military component before the economic elements are in place is not wise, one risks being a potential partner who is too costly to admit. |
Originally Posted by melmothtw
(Post 11165407)
...it was Ukraine's move towards the European Union that triggered Putin's interventions in the country...
Maidan Square. 2014. |
Ukraine is a free country and can join whatever it wants.
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All countries can do whatever they want - but it's generally wise to consider the effects on other people - especially your neighbours.........
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It might be a good idea for Russia to think about this. They will only make everybody want to join NATO. Finally poor Russia can feel threatened over and over again and claim to need to invade everybody else.
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I wonder if part of Vlad's concern WRT Ukraine is that the country already offers more to its citizens in terms of living standards, work opportunities, freedoms, future prospects etc, than "Greater Russia" will ever do under his leadership? And that after only six short years of going it alone.
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 11164050)
I hope the US turn their attention back to Europe now.
That most stupid "pivot to Asia" declaration massively backfired and invited things nobody wanted. @melmothw You forget that it was Ukraine's move towards the European Union that triggered Putin's interventions in the country. It was in response to Putin's actions that membership of NATO was then touted. |
Russian press reporting that a “peace keeping” force has been dispatched to Kazakhstan to “stabilise” the situation….
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Originally Posted by sfm818
(Post 11165414)
Correct.
Maidan Square. 2014. https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who...n-policy-team/ Her policies seem to me to produce massive strategic losses for very doubtful tactical gains. Imho, Russia should be inside the Western tent, ***ing out, rather than outside ***ing in. Detaching the Ukraine from Russia at the price of forcing Russia into China's orbit just seems dumb to me. |
Covert Spetnaz are already operating in Kiev
Covert Russian Spetnaz units 'already in Ukraine right now' warns former US Navy commander (msn.com) |
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