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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

Lonewolf_50 28th Apr 2022 02:47


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11221942)
The reason the Ukrainian airforce survived. :) I cannot believe the US is releasing this stuff, 1 it shows your capability and 2 it’s piss poor security..

Do Try To Keep Up.
(We are in violent agreement, it seems)

fdr 28th Apr 2022 03:07


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11221905)
I have a question for you all re the link and post below..

why would they put off the sham vote, is it because they do not hold the full territory, or is it because that by recognising them in the rigged vote and absorbing them into the Russian Federation, it would then result in triggering their supposed nuclear threats to launch if their sovereignty was ever invaded, which it would then become as the Donbas would in effect be recognised by Russia as ermmm Russia?

And as the DNR and LNR are such Russian loving enclaves welcoming Russia in as independent states hoping to become part of Russia, I did find the following rather amusing, strange for a Russian loving and embracing “independent enclave”



https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/04/28/change-of-plans


This is F-Troops concept of Free and Fair Elections.

Hint to F-Troop: If you can't get people to fudge your ballot boxes as they are not happy with the concept that they will NOT be shot in the back, it probably suggests you aren't welcome.

It barely rises to a level of legitimacy of a royal dcree by us that Moscow Peoples Republik is hereby announced, and henceforce, all Moscovies are no longer required to undertake service in the armed forces of the illegitimate occupier, Russia. As we, the MPR also have a historical association with the people of St Petersberg, we notify the occupier that from 1 April 2022, we by decree and by follow up bogus oops, referendum by ballot declare the area below as a self-declared Federation To Restore Oblast Of Pukin. F-TROOP.

F-TROOP
declares that trhey will hold free and fair elections for self-determination of the area indicated below, on 32 April 2022, and the results were a resounding defeat for the current occupier, who were routed, 99.9% for F-TROOP and 0.09% for the incumbent, Joseph Stalin, (deceased, no flowers please).

Following these free and fair elections and the establishment of F-TROOP, a tax-free haven, F-TROOP will be applying for EU membership, and for joining NATO. Due to the recent misfortunes of the occupiers, F-TROOP will be establishing a cake sale and a crowdfunding campaign to buy one slightly used T-72 that is currently in need of a tractor tow from it's present illegal parking spot in a nearby country that F-TROOP will be establishing CER with. F-TROOP is in need of a T-72 turret for it's defense force of the aforementioned 1 x T-72, if any scrap metal remains from the occupiers' generals selling tank barrels for kopeks, one barrel and attachments, being a turret assembly would be appreciated.

F-TROOP's tax-free status results from a balanced budget of selling scrap metal from a recent adventure of the occupier, and by conversion of the Kremlin into a Day's Inn, and the Winter Palace into an Air BNB property for backpackers.

An air corridor will be opened up between MDR (formerly moscow) and SPDR (formerly St Petersburg) using state-of-the-art AN-2 aircraft. Limousine travel will be provided by Lada Niva's, as a showpiece of the strength of the Self Declared Area, F-TROOP.

The modern passenger comforts are shown below, Da?

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f166642abf.png



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5fffb5faa0.png

The above suggests that a legitimate declaration of a constituted state has about as much relevance as the person making the declaration. As LPR and DPR (wasn't that already taken? No, that was the DPK, So Kherson is out of luck with any declaration by Pukin) was made by an invader, that suggests that taking on a job that gets you shot in the back for trying to subvert the will of the people, no matter how strident and shrill the call is by the invader, it going to be fraught with short life expectancy.

Why would Russia presume that the Ukrainians will not defend their country with the same or greater intensity and dedication than Russians would to their own home Oblasts?

hu·bris
/
ˈ(h)yo͞obrəs/
noun
  1. excessive pride or self-confidence.
    "the self-assured hubris among economists was shaken in the late 1980s"

peter we 28th Apr 2022 05:05


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11221807)
US is struggling to restart Stinger and Javelin production as the DOD haven’t bought a Stinger in 18 years and several parts are no longer built, I am surprised they appear to be hand built.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...quickly-enough

javalin production never stopped for the US and Stingers were being made for foreign customers.
US were buying Grom from Poland because its the most modern and highest spec available in NATO.

Imagegear 28th Apr 2022 06:09

There comes a time when men must speak out against tyranny:


I wonder if he will fall from a third floor window.

IG

Davef68 28th Apr 2022 08:20


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11221942)
The reason the Ukrainian airforce survived. :) I cannot believe the US is releasing this stuff, 1 it shows your capability and 2 it’s piss poor security.. either that or it’s a bloody big bluff to make the Russians believe the NATO intelligence gathering is better than they think.

If it's a deliberate leak, it's an interesting play - many of us have wondered if any of the product form the constant stream on NATO (and non-NATO) ISTAR over Eastern Europe was being passed on to the Ukrainians. What would be the intention in leaking? The bluff is an interesting idea, the other side would be it's a hawkish 'come and get me' play to encourage an act of aggression towards NATO assets by Russia, then giving NATO an excuse to take action.Or is it an unofficial leak from hawkish elements wanting to achieve that outcome.

Wokkafans 28th Apr 2022 08:48

Still prefer sharks with lasers :E

Thread:


NutLoose 28th Apr 2022 09:40

Ukraine intend bringing war crime charges against captured pilots and two rocket launcher operators.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ng-2022-04-26/


Three Russian pilots suspected of bombing civilian buildings in the Kharkiv and Sumy regions are among at least seven Russian military personnel that Kyiv is preparing war crimes charges against, the Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office told Reuters.

It said the other individuals include two operators of a rocket launcher who allegedly shelled settlements in the Kharkiv region and two army servicemen suspected of murdering a Kyiv area resident and raping his wife.

The prosecutor’s office said it had notified the individuals that they are suspects and the investigations are ongoing, adding no charges had been filed with the court. It didn’t name the suspects or provide evidence to support the allegations. It said some of the suspects were held as captives, without specifying where, while other charges were being prepared in absentia.

Ukraine says it is investigating some 7,600 potential war crimes and at least 500 suspects following Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of its neighbour. Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova told Reuters that many of those suspects are in Russia but some have been taken captive by Ukraine as prisoners of war. Speaking in an interview earlier this month, she said that her office intends to follow the chain of command up the Russian political and military hierarchy.

Venediktova added that she plans to pursue prosecutions both in Ukrainian courts as well as at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, the world’s permanent war crimes tribunal.

The Kremlin and Russia’s defence ministry didn’t respond to requests for comment. Moscow has rejected allegations by Ukraine and Western nations of war crimes and has denied targeting civilians in what the Kremlin calls a "special military operation" to demilitarise its neighbour.

Ukraine’s probe is at the centre of multiple efforts to investigate potential war crimes related to the conflict, including by the ICC. The probes are at the very early stages, people familiar with them say. The ICC has sent an advance team to the region to establish operations. read more

Moscow has accused Kyiv of genocide against Russian speakers, which Kyiv strongly denies. Russia has also opened criminal cases into Ukrainian servicemen's alleged torture of their Russian counterparts. read more

Ukraine, which is conducting its investigation while still in the throes of war, is scrambling to assemble teams of specialists with war crimes expertise, evaluating potential crimes and developing its prosecution strategy.

”You can see they are now exhuming the bodies, so [the investigation is at a] very early stage," a person familiar with the process said. In terms of strategy, Kyiv plans to prosecute as much as it can in Ukrainian courts but would likely leave any cases involving higher-ranking figures to the ICC, the person added.

The UN has also established its own inquiry into possible violations of international humanitarian law in Ukraine, including possible war crimes, which could feed into any prosecutions by the ICC.

There is also a European Union-coordinated effort to fast track sharing of evidence between various investigating authorities, including with the ICC. Several European countries have said they will apply universal jurisdiction, the legal principle that some crimes are so terrible they can be heard by foreign national courts, and their prosecutors could launch investigations into Ukrainian atrocities.

For Ukraine, the immediate challenge is the sheer volume of potential evidence and witness testimony that needs to be secured and recorded in a way that is usable in court, legal specialists say. That includes vast amounts of digital imagery as well as material gathered on the ground.

David Schwendiman, a former U.S. federal prosecutor who has also helped prosecute war crimes committed during the Balkan wars in the 1990s, praised Ukraine’s prosecutor general as talented and courageous but said the country doesn’t have experience of an investigation of this scale and will need outside help processing potential crime scenes in a way that meets international standards.

“Every one of those bodies is a crime scene. Every one of those buildings is a crime scene. Every city is a crime scene,” Schwendiman said. Something as small as a piece of cloth torn from a uniform, an ammunition shell or even a ligature used to tie someone’s hands could help identify a particular unit involved and so needs to be carefully preserved, he added.

Zera Kozlyieva, deputy head of the war crimes unit in the prosecutor general’s office, acknowledged that limited access due to ongoing hostilities and a shortage of war crimes specialists presented challenges. Speaking Thursday on a panel at international affairs think tank Chatham House, she said that Kyiv is seeking help from international experts.

Images of dead civilians in Ukraine, including of mass graves and bodies of bound civilians shot at close range, have prompted international outrage, with U.S. President Joe Biden calling for Russian President Vladimir Putin to be investigated for war crimes. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has accused invading Russian troops of committing "the most terrible war crimes" since World War Two.

According to the United Nations, as of April 22 more than 2,400 civilians had been killed since the conflict began in late February. But the official count is likely to climb. In the port city of Mariupol alone, local authorities have said thousands of people have been killed. read more

Under international law, war crimes include intentionally targeting civilian populations, willfully killing or causing suffering, and widespread destruction among other serious violations of laws applicable in armed conflict. Individuals who commit such crimes can be prosecuted by international tribunals such as the ICC and by states.

Experts for the Organization for Security and Cooperation and Europe (OSCE) nations said in a report published earlier this month that they found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia in Ukraine. The experts also said in the report that they’d found evidence of violations of international humanitarian law by Ukraine, particularly in its treatment of prisoners of war, but that Russia's violations "are by far larger in nature and scale."

Ukraine has said it checks all information regarding the treatment of prisoners of war, will investigate any violations and take appropriate legal action. Russia has said the report "is based solely on unfounded propaganda theses, contains references to dubious sources and logical stretches in the style of 'highly likely.'"

UKRAINE’S PROBE

The prosecutor general’s office had in recent years established a special unit to investigate potential crimes in Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014 but Kyiv continues to claim as part of Ukraine, and Donbas.

Moscow’s February invasion of its Western neighbour forced Kyiv to scale up what had been a relatively small team of prosecutors.

Venediktova and her team have in recent weeks been evaluating sites where atrocities have taken place, including where Russian troops have recently withdrawn.

On April 12, Venediktova visited Bucha, near Kyiv, where French forensic experts had arrived to help Ukraine authorities establish what happened in the town where hundreds of bodies have been discovered. As the group from the French Gendarmerie's forensic science department looked on, workers in hazmat suits dug earth from a shallow grave and lifted out a heavy mass wrapped in an orange blanket. Citing witnesses, Venediktova said during the visit that the burnt body parts inside were those of a woman and her two children. read more

Russia has said that images and footage of dead bodies strewn across Bucha were fake.

Venediktova is also drawing on international legal expertise and seeking technical assistance. She has announced the formation of a task force of law firms and prominent international human rights lawyers, including Amal Clooney, to advise on securing accountability for Ukrainian victims in national jurisdictions as well as strategic guidance on cooperating with the ICC.

Venediktova is in regular contact with Beth Van Schaack, Ambassador-at-Large for Global Criminal Justice in the U.S. State Department, who said the two have discussed what additional assistance Washington could provide. Van Schaack’s office has been helping to deploy specialists on the ground via a joint U.S.-European project.

Van Schaack told Reuters that Venediktova’s requests for assistance include forensics expertise, such as helping determine how victims found in mass graves died and whether potential signs of torture were inflicted prior to death. Other requests include help identifying the type and origins of particular ballistics used as well as assistance clearing any mines left by Russians so that her investigators can safely access those areas.

Ukraine’s potentially biggest challenge, said Van Schaack, will be gaining custody of suspects, particularly those higher up the command chain. If they remain in Russia, they may “enjoy impunity for the rest of their days,” she said.

NutLoose 28th Apr 2022 09:58

Sigh,,,,, Demented fools.


fdr 28th Apr 2022 10:03


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11222105)
Ukraine intend bringing war crime charges against captured pilots and two rocket launcher operators.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ng-2022-04-26/

If they had CBUs or were fragged to civilian targets, then it's about time. They can use the excuse they were only following orders, and that will then play out as it should. Gonna make for a lot of flight crew think to re-muster to drone pilot. Countries involved in projection of power are still obliged to comply with the law. The guy at the end of the line is not the one giving directions, so it brings up the uncomfortable position for everyone that is giving orders. Not all military law permits a special military operation person to refuse the order, but it would be interesting to see it play out in a court of law. Makes for a distraction to the Red team, that's worth the candle. It is just the beginning of the legal arguments.

That image from the article should be given some airtime.WAR CRIMES prosecutor is a mill stone around the neck of Russia. Something for a T-shirt perhaps?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1357219264.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8a96c72fa0.png






SOPS 28th Apr 2022 10:15


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11222112)

Surely they can get anymore insane?

NutLoose 28th Apr 2022 11:11

A Ukrainian Mig 29 fighter departing an airfield while under an artillery attack


NutLoose 28th Apr 2022 11:24

Re war crimes, well this pilot has admitted killing a civilian


Another one admitting hitting Civilian buildings


MAINJAFAD 28th Apr 2022 11:42


Originally Posted by Wokkafans (Post 11222075)
Still prefer sharks with lasers :E

Thread:

https://twitter.com/CovertShores/sta..._EKA0ACwcwSaZQ

US Navy have been doing it for years, They also use Sea Lions.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...-whales-165607

Ninthace 28th Apr 2022 11:49


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11222153)
Re war crimes, well this pilot has admitted killing a civilian

https://twitter.com/ZeroZhvk/status/1508127502396444679

Another one admitting hitting Civilian buildings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sH3NRh33cM

Do these broadcasts not contravene Article 13 (IIRC) of the Geneva Convention?

NutLoose 28th Apr 2022 11:52

Possibly, but would they if the Russians agreed to them? None of it looks forced, unlike the Uk guy reading... telling the west they were wrong

Ninthace 28th Apr 2022 12:23


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11222166)
Possibly, but would they if the Russians agreed to them? None of it looks forced, unlike the Uk guy reading... telling the west they were wrong

In my view is wrong for either side to contravene the Convention, we cannot be selective about it. We do not know what promises or threats were made prior to the broadcast.

Article 13 of the Third Geneva Convention explicitly states that prisoners of war must be protected at all times, particularly from public curiosity. It is duty of the detaining power to ensure these prisoners’ rights are properly respected from the moment they are captured.
It also puts the POWs at risk from their own government if they are repatriated

ORAC 28th Apr 2022 12:38

In the circumstances of being accused of war crimes, the ICRC deems such photography acceptable in order to bring the abuse to public attention.

https://fullfact.org/law/prisoners-w...n-photographs/

Wokkafans 28th Apr 2022 12:53

"Boris One" is now being used for tanking close to the Ukrainian border:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=43c6f9

Lonewolf_50 28th Apr 2022 13:33


Originally Posted by Wokkafans (Post 11222199)
"Boris One" is now being used for tanking close to the Ukrainian border:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=43c6f9

Grateful for the aviation content. :ok:

Video Mixdown 28th Apr 2022 13:54


Originally Posted by Wokkafans (Post 11222199)
"Boris One" is now being used for tanking close to the Ukrainian border:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=43c6f9

A tanker being used for tanking then. What's your point?


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