Meteor Accident Statistics
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What a great story Legalapproach, couldn't hope to cap that.
And talking of caps, I once flew a Vamp T11 from West Malling home to Swinderby, only finding that the oil cap had not been refitted on turnround, by seeing an extrememly oily back end when I got out! Glad it was Goblin rather than Derwent powered!
And talking of caps, I once flew a Vamp T11 from West Malling home to Swinderby, only finding that the oil cap had not been refitted on turnround, by seeing an extrememly oily back end when I got out! Glad it was Goblin rather than Derwent powered!
It is hugely depressing reading the names of all those aerodromes (Horsham, Malling, Swinderby etc) which used to be fine RAF flying stations and no longer are....
When once we had an Air Force.
When once we had an Air Force.
Beagle, I remember it well. Swinderby when we had an airforce, the Saracen's Head in Lincoln, hunting in the Co-op Ballroom, romancing young ladies from the telephone exchange, low cloud and freezing winds. Not forgetting the whine of a Vampire. Oh happy time!
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AARRR! Beags and Brakedwell, you young lads don't know what it was like before that Mr Sandys decided aeroplanes would no longer need people, and wielded his axe in '57! That was an Air Force!
Finally received my copy of 'Nick' Carter's Meteor Eject!: Adventures of a Cold War Pilot. And what a fascinating read about the RAF I wish I'd been in! At one stage he lives the life of Riley at Chivenor, flying Hunter F1 and F4, Meteor T7 and F8, Anson and Chipmunk. Typical off-the-cuff remarks about flying mates here and there in Vampire T11 and Meteor T7... How to get to the Air Ministry from Chivenor? Not by branch line train from Barnstaple to Taunton and then the main line to Paddington - but Hunter to North Weald, change and take the tube into Town!
On one day he did about 5 individual BoB display appearances in the same a/c. It also seemed you could go virtually anywhere in the UK by Hunter/Vampire/Meteor as the mood took you.
At one stage his boss was an old family friend of my father's, the late 'Farmer' Steele. Glad to hear that he was a popular boss with his men, but perhaps less so with 'Authority'. Hence the posting to Acklington as an admin officer... I wonder whether 'Nick' realised that he might have known him at Merryfield in his CFS-trapper days before he became boss of 257?
Books of the period are very rare indeed - but what an eye-opener this one is and it confirms what I'd always imagined the era was really like.
On one day he did about 5 individual BoB display appearances in the same a/c. It also seemed you could go virtually anywhere in the UK by Hunter/Vampire/Meteor as the mood took you.
At one stage his boss was an old family friend of my father's, the late 'Farmer' Steele. Glad to hear that he was a popular boss with his men, but perhaps less so with 'Authority'. Hence the posting to Acklington as an admin officer... I wonder whether 'Nick' realised that he might have known him at Merryfield in his CFS-trapper days before he became boss of 257?
Books of the period are very rare indeed - but what an eye-opener this one is and it confirms what I'd always imagined the era was really like.
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Beagle: He speaks the truth. I have many entries in my logbook to various airfields on a Friday dropping someone off, and then again on a Monday to pick them up.
People who wished to avail themselves to the service were invited to contribute to the squadron fund, I think the rate was 10/- shillings return out to 150 miles, and 15 bob return beyond that.
I daresay that sort of activity would be frowned on these days.
People who wished to avail themselves to the service were invited to contribute to the squadron fund, I think the rate was 10/- shillings return out to 150 miles, and 15 bob return beyond that.
I daresay that sort of activity would be frowned on these days.
The last place/time I knew of such a facility was during my Hawk refresher course at Valley in 1980 - but only to 'static displays'. You just filled out a form and got the boss to approve it. So one Friday I took a Wg Cdr down to Dunsfold, then flew up to Scampton for the weekend. Back to Valley on Monday. Then on another occasion, down to Brize Norton on Friday for a static the next day, back on Sunday with a bit of a headache after being invited to "Take beer!" in the OM the previous night with Puddy Catt who was there with the Meteor 8 from Brawdy. We had both escaped from the dreaded 'Gateway Hotel'!!
The pre-Sandys jet age RAF must have been truly superb!
But 10 years later after I'd just finished my CFS course I wasn't even allowed to take a Bulldog from Scampton to Topcliffe one afternoon to swap it for another which had the ILS mod. 'They' couldn't find any authorisation rule which applied, it seems....
The pre-Sandys jet age RAF must have been truly superb!
But 10 years later after I'd just finished my CFS course I wasn't even allowed to take a Bulldog from Scampton to Topcliffe one afternoon to swap it for another which had the ILS mod. 'They' couldn't find any authorisation rule which applied, it seems....
While stationed at Bovingdon in the early sixties I could borrow an Anson for "Airways Training" and spend the occasional weekend in Jersey. As long as it was parked on the grass outside the flying club there were no landing/handling/parking charges. The owner of the Pomme d'Or and the manager of a Wine Lodge in St Hellier were ex RN turned RNVRT and so were entiltled to fly in RAF aircraft. We used to help them out if they needed to visit the mainland at short notice and in return stayed at the P'dOr for thirty bob a night full board. Product sampling in the managers office at the Wine Lodge remains a happy hazy memory!
Last edited by brakedwell; 14th Apr 2006 at 11:07.
More bang for your buck
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Originally Posted by henry crun
Beagle: He speaks the truth. I have many entries in my logbook to various airfields on a Friday dropping someone off, and then again on a Monday to pick them up.
People who wished to avail themselves to the service were invited to contribute to the squadron fund, I think the rate was 10/- shillings return out to 150 miles, and 15 bob return beyond that.
I daresay that sort of activity would be frowned on these days.
People who wished to avail themselves to the service were invited to contribute to the squadron fund, I think the rate was 10/- shillings return out to 150 miles, and 15 bob return beyond that.
I daresay that sort of activity would be frowned on these days.
month to stay current, so why not do something that might just be usefull
to somebody?
Reading books by people in the RAF prewar they talk about just geting into an a/c and going to see there mate at another airfield for lunch, no need for permission just go.
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Meteors
I was a Meteor QFI 1952 -1954 and can confirm much of the detail already posted. 210 AFS at Tarrant Rushton was an interesting place with all the groundcrew being civvies working for Flight Refuelling. All the time the unit operated, just under two years, we only had one fatal accident caused by a chap who had already completed the course making an error in a Meteor Mk3 and hitting the ground somewhere near his own home. We, the QFIs, were under strict instructions never to refer to the Meteor as a "Meatbox" which I seem to remember came from Group HQ.
My next posting was 34 Sqn (Meteor Mk 8s) at Tangmere. One morning after night flying the previous evening, a report of an aircraft doing low level aeros over Wrotham, Kent came in. As Fg Off Ashwell's parents lived there the finger pointed to him and the SIB were soon examining the authorisation books as we were the only unit flying that evening. Unusually, we used to enter the take off and landing times logged by the tower and try as they may the cops could not match our records with the reported incident. Needless to say, Pete A was dealt with by our boss and nobody thought to explain the difference between zulu and British Summer Time to the RAF police. I wonder how many COs nowadays would have the guts to deal with such misdemeanors themselves as judging by remarks made in prune it is unlikely.
Incidentally, if nobody else has already mentioned it, the report of accidents in 1952 appeared in Air Clues sometime in the late 1980's or early 1990's and it was repeated again in the Flight Safety Magazine 1/95 pages 6 & 7.
My next posting was 34 Sqn (Meteor Mk 8s) at Tangmere. One morning after night flying the previous evening, a report of an aircraft doing low level aeros over Wrotham, Kent came in. As Fg Off Ashwell's parents lived there the finger pointed to him and the SIB were soon examining the authorisation books as we were the only unit flying that evening. Unusually, we used to enter the take off and landing times logged by the tower and try as they may the cops could not match our records with the reported incident. Needless to say, Pete A was dealt with by our boss and nobody thought to explain the difference between zulu and British Summer Time to the RAF police. I wonder how many COs nowadays would have the guts to deal with such misdemeanors themselves as judging by remarks made in prune it is unlikely.
Incidentally, if nobody else has already mentioned it, the report of accidents in 1952 appeared in Air Clues sometime in the late 1980's or early 1990's and it was repeated again in the Flight Safety Magazine 1/95 pages 6 & 7.
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Beagle is right; at Merryfield in 1954, at least three Meteors went in on the same night, I seem to recall that they had diverted from Weston Zoyland and were caught out by the same fog that had caused the diversion in the first place. I seem also to recall that one crew survived.
2TWU, right again, and the three scars were indeed visible in the cliff-face as folk flew in to Leconfield.
Bof, the multi-prang you mention was at West Raynham on 8 February 1956, when we 'lost six Hunters in eight minutes' (the title by the way, of an article in Air Clues dated March 1982). 'Yellow 4' who was Dick Tumilty from 28 Sqn RAF Sek Kong, was the only fatality.
Ces Crook certainly hi-jacked the train, but I am not sure he set fire to it. Did you know that he is still around in New Zealand? I have a local contact if anyone is interested.
2TWU, right again, and the three scars were indeed visible in the cliff-face as folk flew in to Leconfield.
Bof, the multi-prang you mention was at West Raynham on 8 February 1956, when we 'lost six Hunters in eight minutes' (the title by the way, of an article in Air Clues dated March 1982). 'Yellow 4' who was Dick Tumilty from 28 Sqn RAF Sek Kong, was the only fatality.
Ces Crook certainly hi-jacked the train, but I am not sure he set fire to it. Did you know that he is still around in New Zealand? I have a local contact if anyone is interested.
Having enjoyed a few escapades with Ces - I would like to wish him all the best !
Just joined this Forum & Thoroughly enjoyed This thread. Iīm ex Meteors(F.R.) & Swifts & met Ces later at CFS.
Any other similar forums ??
Best wishes from Spain,
Brian L.
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When I joined in 1963 at South Cerney, the tale of Ces Crook was being told. Nice to discover that the guy is real and we weren't being sold a myth.
As to Meteor asymmetric accidents, we lost 2 good blokes at RAE Farnborough as late as the mid seventies when they lost our T7 during practice.
As to Meteor asymmetric accidents, we lost 2 good blokes at RAE Farnborough as late as the mid seventies when they lost our T7 during practice.
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Meteor Stats etc
Henry and Beagle are right. But I think we enjoyed "the best" on 216 Sqn from late 56 to the end of 58. When 216 joined the jet world in Aug 56 with the Comet 2, the powers that be decided that the captains should all be experienced above average piston transport captains and all the co's should have at least one tour on jets.
The Comet was originally lifed at 5 years, so the Capts would do a nominal five year tour with the RHS-ers only doing two years before returning to the jet fighter/bomber/training world. We had around twenty 2nd-pilots and five co-pilots. The difference being the 2nd Ps were not "catted " on the Comet and were only supposed to handle the aircraft when airborne either on auto pilot or under captain supervision!! T/o and ldgs were Capts only (unless your Capt allowed you to make an unofficial one). The five Co-pilots did hold "cats" as they were to cover any Capt wastage or attrition!! I know this may sound incredible now but that's how it was. Remember there were No - repeat No, jet military or civil transport aircraft up there(not even the 707) flying anywhere in the world at this time, no upper airways and the world above FL250 was a lonely place outside Europe and N America.
However, the 2nd Ps had to hold jet IRs and we had threeMeteor 7s on the Sqn inventory for the guys to keep up the 1st P time and obtain their ratings. Incredible? Obviously they took rock bottom position for servicing. Comets first naturally, but they were a jet flying club for the 2nd Ps. we had our own QFI and I was the IRE (even sent me to Benson on an IRE course). We authorised ourselves and basically could fly anywhere in the UK. I don't think we ever got all three airborne but we certainly often flew around as a pair and spent many a lunch visiting old mates..
When I left at the end of 58 it was announced that Comet 4s were arriving and the 2s were no longer held to a five year life. All 2nd Ps became Co Ps and held Transport Cats. Unfortunately they took the Meteors away and spoilt our fun and I cried!! Can you imagine that happening today! I suppose most of the "then" jet world regarded Transport Command as a lost cause as a posting, but the Comet was a bit like a posting ten years ago to fly Concorde. Happy days!
The Comet was originally lifed at 5 years, so the Capts would do a nominal five year tour with the RHS-ers only doing two years before returning to the jet fighter/bomber/training world. We had around twenty 2nd-pilots and five co-pilots. The difference being the 2nd Ps were not "catted " on the Comet and were only supposed to handle the aircraft when airborne either on auto pilot or under captain supervision!! T/o and ldgs were Capts only (unless your Capt allowed you to make an unofficial one). The five Co-pilots did hold "cats" as they were to cover any Capt wastage or attrition!! I know this may sound incredible now but that's how it was. Remember there were No - repeat No, jet military or civil transport aircraft up there(not even the 707) flying anywhere in the world at this time, no upper airways and the world above FL250 was a lonely place outside Europe and N America.
However, the 2nd Ps had to hold jet IRs and we had threeMeteor 7s on the Sqn inventory for the guys to keep up the 1st P time and obtain their ratings. Incredible? Obviously they took rock bottom position for servicing. Comets first naturally, but they were a jet flying club for the 2nd Ps. we had our own QFI and I was the IRE (even sent me to Benson on an IRE course). We authorised ourselves and basically could fly anywhere in the UK. I don't think we ever got all three airborne but we certainly often flew around as a pair and spent many a lunch visiting old mates..
When I left at the end of 58 it was announced that Comet 4s were arriving and the 2s were no longer held to a five year life. All 2nd Ps became Co Ps and held Transport Cats. Unfortunately they took the Meteors away and spoilt our fun and I cried!! Can you imagine that happening today! I suppose most of the "then" jet world regarded Transport Command as a lost cause as a posting, but the Comet was a bit like a posting ten years ago to fly Concorde. Happy days!
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Fixing ones next posting !!
[quote]
[quote=Bof;2846848]Henry and Beagle are right. But I think we enjoyed "the best" on 216 Sqn from late 56 to the end of 58. When 216 joined the jet world in Aug 56 with the Comet 2, the powers that be decided that the captains should all be experienced above average piston transport captains and all the co's should have at least one tour on jets.
Comets !!
Around !955/56 ? we were all told that the days of fixing postings were over. Remember ?
A year or so later, whilst on a skiing holiday, I stopped for a rest & to admire the view alongside a fellow skier. We chatted & he turned out to be "an ex Transport Command Trapper" - a Wing Commander then working at Air Ministry. He asked me what I wanted to do next posting. (Flying jobs were scarce due to Mr. Duncan Sandys). I was hoping to do Vampires at CFS. He said that should I ever want to change my mind & go onto the Comet (!!) then give him a ring !!
A couple of years later ? whilst at Valley,in the crewroom, on a whim, I telephoned A.M. & asked the switchboard if he was still there. I asked if he remembered the offer & was it still open ?!!. 5 minutes later he rang back (to my surprise & to my C.O.īs - who was now alongside me !!) and said that my Documents were now annotated for Comets next posting !! As always itīs "who you know".
Actually I got an airline job offer soon afterwards & left the service. Flying was never the same again.
[quote=Bof;2846848]Henry and Beagle are right. But I think we enjoyed "the best" on 216 Sqn from late 56 to the end of 58. When 216 joined the jet world in Aug 56 with the Comet 2, the powers that be decided that the captains should all be experienced above average piston transport captains and all the co's should have at least one tour on jets.
Comets !!
Around !955/56 ? we were all told that the days of fixing postings were over. Remember ?
A year or so later, whilst on a skiing holiday, I stopped for a rest & to admire the view alongside a fellow skier. We chatted & he turned out to be "an ex Transport Command Trapper" - a Wing Commander then working at Air Ministry. He asked me what I wanted to do next posting. (Flying jobs were scarce due to Mr. Duncan Sandys). I was hoping to do Vampires at CFS. He said that should I ever want to change my mind & go onto the Comet (!!) then give him a ring !!
A couple of years later ? whilst at Valley,in the crewroom, on a whim, I telephoned A.M. & asked the switchboard if he was still there. I asked if he remembered the offer & was it still open ?!!. 5 minutes later he rang back (to my surprise & to my C.O.īs - who was now alongside me !!) and said that my Documents were now annotated for Comets next posting !! As always itīs "who you know".
Actually I got an airline job offer soon afterwards & left the service. Flying was never the same again.
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Borrowing a aircraft for the weekend. 1957, 2TAF.
Beagle: He speaks the truth. I have many entries in my logbook to various airfields on a Friday dropping someone off, and then again on a Monday to pick them up.
People who wished to avail themselves to the service were invited to contribute to the squadron fund, I think the rate was 10/- shillings return out to 150 miles, and 15 bob return beyond that.
I daresay that sort of activity would be frowned on these days.
People who wished to avail themselves to the service were invited to contribute to the squadron fund, I think the rate was 10/- shillings return out to 150 miles, and 15 bob return beyond that.
I daresay that sort of activity would be frowned on these days.
He had asked the Boss if he could borrow an aircraft for the weekend. (one could borrow "non operational" aircraft for this type of thing). The Boss said he could go providing he could persuade a few airman & a Sergeant to push open the hangar doors etc & sign the Form 700, a favour normally repaid with a crate of beer etc.
The Meteor T7 was pushed out & Porky was on his way, he thought. Unfortunately the igniters in one engine were not making their usual click click noise & were u/s. There was no way that anyone was going to repair them. The Sergeant was in an awkward situation. I saw him have a quiet word with one of the airmen - who ran off into the hangar & returned with a handful of "cotton waste" (probably with a little paraffin soaked into it ?).
The Sergeant told Porky to wind her up & open the HP cock when he told him to. The sergeant stood by the jet pipe as the revs built up, lights the cotton waste with his lighter, shouts "NOW" - and throws the burning cotton waste well up the jet pipe !!
BERWOOOOOOOOMF !!!!!!!
I get a brief glimpse of the waste flashing past me to goodness knows where. They revs build up normally to idling & Porky is on his way.
"Put her u/s when you get there yells", the Cheefie.
We next saw a Very hungover Porky about the following Wednesday !!
P.S.
Porky had a chequered career. At AFS (Finningly) on his First ever solo flight he was given reciprocal steers & ran out of fuel - resulting in Banner Headlines the next day (
Daily Express ?) - " Jet Ace Saves Manchester !!"
On his last flight, at the end of the course, His tail was knocked off by a coursemate who was trying to rendezvous with him over the Humber but was blinded by the sun at the wrong moment. He then was nearly drowned in the river .
After a tour on 79(FR) Squadron he was involved in writing the First pilots notes for the Harrier. Later he went to Muharraq (Not sure whether he was still in the RAF or not ?). I could go on & on about those great (flying) days.........
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Annie reminds me of those days.
Wander down the sqn, check the programme. If the crew was spilt doing its own thing, pilots in the sim of whatever, and nothing doing, I would wander over to the station flight.
"Any trips"
That was usually all the encouragement the hairy old MP needed for a flight. Tool round Lincolnshire for a couple of hours. Bliss.
Wander down the sqn, check the programme. If the crew was spilt doing its own thing, pilots in the sim of whatever, and nothing doing, I would wander over to the station flight.
"Any trips"
That was usually all the encouragement the hairy old MP needed for a flight. Tool round Lincolnshire for a couple of hours. Bliss.
Meteor Accidents
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AEF Meteor Seven
Have found this in my notes. Meteor 452, 30 mins jet experience. Remember every minute of the flight 'though I can't remember the field (suspect Yorkshire somewhere).
Remember seeing many A/C around and about spinning and C and Bumping.
Also remember the pre flight briefing which didn't bother me a bit but then it was 03/08/62 and I was - to the day - seventeen. (On another page I have just found that it was Strubby).
Being handed the controls I thought that I was doing a good job flying S & L 'till I was asked to look at at the altimeter ( It did AVERAGE 10,000 feet but I will not disclose the standard deviation).
By then I already held a gliding license and many flights in Chipmunks, Varsitys and Valettas - all down to the UK taxpayer. As a consequence the only meaning of the word Grass to me is something you can land on
Fantastic birthday - not yet topped.
I might have walked out to that aircraft as a teenager but I walked back feeling like a man.
Whoever was in the front seat Salute.
My first flight - by the way - was in a DH Rapide at an open day on my Father's then station (Circa 1953) I suspect that it would have been Catfoss. So memory serves.
Remember seeing many A/C around and about spinning and C and Bumping.
Also remember the pre flight briefing which didn't bother me a bit but then it was 03/08/62 and I was - to the day - seventeen. (On another page I have just found that it was Strubby).
Being handed the controls I thought that I was doing a good job flying S & L 'till I was asked to look at at the altimeter ( It did AVERAGE 10,000 feet but I will not disclose the standard deviation).
By then I already held a gliding license and many flights in Chipmunks, Varsitys and Valettas - all down to the UK taxpayer. As a consequence the only meaning of the word Grass to me is something you can land on
Fantastic birthday - not yet topped.
I might have walked out to that aircraft as a teenager but I walked back feeling like a man.
Whoever was in the front seat Salute.
My first flight - by the way - was in a DH Rapide at an open day on my Father's then station (Circa 1953) I suspect that it would have been Catfoss. So memory serves.