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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Ukraine War Thread Part 2

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Old 19th Jul 2023, 22:39
  #3021 (permalink)  
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With Russia effectively declaring war against the food supply of Africa, Asia and China, it might be time for Turkey to back up it's rhetoric or remove butt from porcelain. Positioning Turkish ships into Odesa harbour will take about 20 hours, as part of the FONOPS they have signed up for, and they would be at liberty to have self defence ROE to take out missile threats. NATO, can assist if given access by Turkey through the Bosphorus, it is discretionary by Turkey, at this time. Involvement of mines would be a trigger to defend against Russia, the only bad faith player in the area with offensive mining capabilty.

The invention of the quad bike might not get a patent issue, but it is a nice try for the septagenarian super army that Putin is working on, they will be feared in hospices and retirement homes across the wide steppes of FR. There is room for colostomy bags if the stuff hits the fan. At the pace it travels, it will confuse the lead computation a bit, more like a stationary target, quite confusing.

RuAF training reality simulation is getting impressive. If they added shooting the team member beside you and blowing up your leaders in their dacha miles away from the practice fox holes, it would be great. "on ya Vlad!".

Vlads efforts at removing the little respect that remains for the RF on a world stage are successful, Takes skill to alienate all of your own allies, but, credit where it is due, Vlad, threatening the food security of Africa, Asia and China is a brilliant move, should be added to Dale Carnegies little book on how to win friends...

Instead of trying to made quad bike soldiers, or refurbishing T-34's to "modernise" the RuAF, perhaps these are better investments...





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Old 19th Jul 2023, 22:46
  #3022 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beamr
"From July 20, all ships sailing in the Black Sea to Ukrainian ports will be considered as potential carriers of military cargo. Countries on the flags of such ships will be considered involved in the Ukrainian conflict on the side of the Kyiv regime," Russian Defense Ministry.


https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...82986721222661
That is simply trying to rewrite international law on the fly. Otherwise called bluffing. It may work in the sense of scaring the insurance market into closure, but that is not the same thing although it then becomes a moot point.

https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/blockade#

https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cg...8&context=ils#

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...2B21DCB66D9428

" The prohibition of the use of force prohibits operations that do not discriminate between ships that contribute to the enemy war effort and those that do not. Therefore, visit and search operations can only be based on specific suspicions against individual ships. Blockades, which are by definition indiscriminate, cannot be enforced outside territorial waters. "

Getting grain shipping close to Ukraine through the Bosphorus and through neutral Bulgarian and Romanian territorial waters would seem OK. Going further than that requires sufficient military overwatch that it probably requires NATO, and a UN resolution, so it won't happen. If a way can be found for Ukraine to run a shuttle and tranship grain in neutral waters that might be a helpful path. But that requires a way of doing the transhipment.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 22:52
  #3023 (permalink)  
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The interfactional military vs FSB civil war continues to escalate…

Russia opened a criminal case against Colonel of GRU Vladimir Kvachkov, a close Girkin's ally and a member of the "Angry Patriots Club", accusing him of discrediting the Russian Armed Forces.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 22:53
  #3024 (permalink)  
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Apparently Turkey will not cover Ukrainian vessels.

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Old 19th Jul 2023, 22:56
  #3025 (permalink)  
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​​​​​​​Ukraine’s Ambassador to Poland, @Vasyl_Zvarych, says Poland could be about to decide to send another 20 MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine

Polish President Duda has said it could be done but would need US approval as the planes have been upgraded with US tech
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 23:08
  #3026 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Russia designing quad riding synthetic soldier also known in the west as the remote controlled old age shopping trolley with a dressed manikin plonked on top.



​​​​​​​https://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1681605543415144449
But inquiring minds want to know: what does it do? Ride around in circles? Does it explode? Does the robot carry a machine gun? How does 'he' aim it? Why even have a mannequin on the thing?
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 23:11
  #3027 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Russian missile attack against Odesa on the screen of the Virage Tablet system (automated software).

This is what Ukrainian air defense operators saw on their screens.

Dozens of targets representing Kalibr, Onyx and Kh-22 missiles & Shahed-136 kamikaze UAVs.
I'm sorry to bring this up, but my NOTAM system seems to be faulty, I didn't see the NOTAM related to the activity in international airspace by Russia... they need a strongly worded complaint from ICAO, that should stop them, after all, they are such a law abiding member of the international community. Alternative to that, Turkey and NATO naval forces in the region acting as a picket line and with ROE to take out all sites related to the launch of these weapons would be desirable, after all, this isn't a war, it is a "whateveritiswhenyouaretooembarrasedtocallitawarandtoostupidt oreversethedumbestdecisionsincenapoleonpackedforsummerinmosc ow".

every missile fired at Ukraine is a criminal act, time to cease and desist with some emphasis on removing the toys from the child in charge. After all, that is what any responsible adult would do, which apparently rules out the UN and most of our governments.

That's a lot of crimes at one time


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Old 19th Jul 2023, 23:12
  #3028 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Winemaker
But inquiring minds want to know: what does it do? Ride around in circles? Does it explode? Does the robot carry a machine gun? How does 'he' aim it? Why even have a mannequin on the thing?
It distracts the King who has no clothes, who otherwise will draft the designers and engineers into frontline blenders.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 23:47
  #3029 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Winemaker
But inquiring minds want to know: what does it do? Ride around in circles? Does it explode? Does the robot carry a machine gun? How does 'he' aim it? Why even have a mannequin on the thing?
Uber Eats: Moscow.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 23:58
  #3030 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Apparently Turkey will not cover Ukrainian vessels.



https://twitter.com/sentdefender/sta...43049053196289
That adds a complexity to things, Turkey kept it's word for how long? They may not be able to smile out of both sides of their mouth at the same time, though; Turkey stopping protection may be one thing, Turkey stopping other countries following UN Charter articles which are independent of any resolution, (UN countries are expected to assist without resolution any country that is the subject of aggression) then the UK, US, CA, PRC JPN etc can ask to enter the Black Sea to ensure the supply of food remains secure. Turkey then decides if they really want to speak Russian or eventually be a part of the EU...

Is that an escalation, depends on your view, but sitting not he sidelines wringing hands hasn't worked well for de-escalation so far.


UN Charter Article 51 "It works both ways, Vlad"
Spoiler
 

UN Charter Article 52 "Stopping Vlad is quite within individual UN states to do"
Spoiler
 


UN Charter Article 1 "Purpose"
Spoiler
 


UN Charter Article 2 "Practices"
Spoiler
 


Art 1 means Russia is an aggressor nation. Art 2(5) gives scope of action for all UN states to assist Ukraine, and 2(5) also prohibits aid to the aggressor nation, something that a few UN states seem to have erred over. Art 51 gives the basis for assistance of Ukraine against Russia. None of the above needs the spineless UN to actually get their butts off their polished porcelain thrones, it is a right within the charter, in fact it is an obligation to be compliant with Art 1 - Purpose.


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Old 20th Jul 2023, 00:04
  #3031 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Winemaker
But inquiring minds want to know: what does it do? Ride around in circles? Does it explode? Does the robot carry a machine gun? How does 'he' aim it? Why even have a mannequin on the thing?
I checked on Youtube, Netflix and Prime, and couldn't find this episode on either TopGear or Grand Tour. Does anyone have the full episode? The STIG looks like he has lost a little weight, and Vlad standing in for 'ammond is genius.




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Old 20th Jul 2023, 00:20
  #3032 (permalink)  
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I see the latest US supplies includes port and harbour security equipment.

[https://www.defense.gov/News/Release...-for-ukraine/]
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Old 20th Jul 2023, 00:43
  #3033 (permalink)  
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No wonder China wants the grain deal restarted, if true.

60,000 tonnes of agricultural products destroyed by Russian missiles were to be sent to China – Zelenskyy

60,000 tonnes of agricultural products destroyed by Russia's missile strikes on Odesa Oblast on the night of 18-19 July were to be delivered to China.

Source: Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s nightly speech

Quote: "This attack proves that their target is not only Ukraine, and not only the lives of our people. About a million tons of food is stored in the ports that were attacked today. This is the volume that should have been delivered to consumer countries in Africa and Asia long ago.

The port terminal that suffered the most from the Russian terror last night had 60,000 tons of agricultural products stored in it, which were intended to be shipped to China. That is, everyone is affected by this Russian terror."Background:
  • As a result of Russian attacks on infrastructure facilities in Odesa Oblast, 60,000 tonnes of grain were destroyed in the port of Chornomorsk.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/19/7412066/

Russia’s demands to restart it.

​​​​​​​

Putin reveals "conditions" of Russia coming back to Black Sea Grain Initiative

Russia will "consider the possibility" of coming back to the Black Sea Grain Initiative only if its terms are fully implemented.

Source: Russian President Vladimir Putin, quoted by Russian news outlets

Details: Putin has claimed that Russia has "shown miracles of restraint and tolerance by extending the Black Sea Grain Initiative".

"At the same time, no one was going to fulfil any obligations and agreements on the grain deal; they only constantly demanded something from the Russian Federation. The West did everything to derail the grain deal, sparing no effort," Putin said.He has also said that the Black Sea Grain Initiative supposedly led to direct losses of US$1.2 billion for Russian farmers.

Quote from Putin: "Our country is able to replace Ukrainian grain, both on a commercial and free basis. Moreover, we are expecting a record harvest again this year. The extension of the grain deal as it existed has lost all meaning.

That is why we opposed its further extension. We are not against the deal itself. And we will consider coming back to it, but on one condition: if all the principles of Russia's participation in the agreement are fully taken into account and, most importantly, implemented."

More details: Among the conditions Putin has voiced were the lifting of sanctions on Russian grain and fertiliser supplies to world markets, the connection of banks to SWIFT, and the end of "all restrictions".

"We do not need any promises or ideas; we need these conditions to be fulfilled," Putin added.

He has also named the resumption of supplies of spare parts for agricultural machinery and "resolving the issue of freight and insurance for Russian ships" among the conditions.

In addition, Putin has said that the Tolyatti-Odesa ammonia pipeline "should be restored". He has added that "Russian assets related to agriculture" should be unblocked. Putin has claimed that these conditions are set out in Russia's Memorandum with the UN.

"If all these conditions are fulfilled, we will immediately come back to this agreement," Putin said.

​​​​​​​https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/19/7412070/

Never going to happen is it?
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Old 20th Jul 2023, 00:50
  #3034 (permalink)  
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Russia is still pushing Crimea as a holiday resort to the punters at home.






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Old 20th Jul 2023, 01:16
  #3035 (permalink)  
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Russias latest crime.

Shades of Raiders of the Lost Arc.

Russian archaeologists and collaborators are excavating in the occupied Crimea at the site of the ancient Greek city of Chersonesos, looking for "evidence" of its belonging to Russia.

Source: National Resistance Center

Quote: "Excavations of a Ukrainian monument of national importance on the site of the ancient Greek city of Chersonesos are underway on the temporarily occupied Crimean peninsula.

Russian archaeologists and local collaborators are carrying out excavations under the supervision of the military. The main task facing the robbers of the historical monument is to prove the "belonging of the city to the Russian Federation."
Details: The Center adds that the occupiers want to prove that Chersonesos was actually inhabited by Slavs and was called the city of Korsun.

In the future, as the centre assumes, Russian propaganda will "draw a line" to Kyivan Rus, whose heir it considers itself. This will allegedly allow the occupiers not only to "justify their right to the peninsula" but also to level the history of the Crimean Tatars as "an insignificant stage in the history of Crimea".

Russian historians can resort to the deliberate destruction of Greek heritage in that area. The Center reports that many artefacts are being exported to the Russian Federation, and systematic looting and destruction of monuments are ongoing.
​​​​​​​https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/19/7412010/
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Old 20th Jul 2023, 01:20
  #3036 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
No wonder China wants the grain deal restarted, if true.


https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/19/7412066/

Russia’s demands to restart it.



https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/19/7412070/

Never going to happen is it?
And if China provided the bulk carriers from Odessa to Istanbul? China flagged ships require Chinese citizen crews, which would make a bit of a problem for Lord Farquard. Reallocation of capacity would be possible, and of course, insurance rates for Chinese ships there would be lower than for any others.

Feed 45 UN states? Not a bad win for China, who needs the same food supply too.

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Old 20th Jul 2023, 01:23
  #3037 (permalink)  
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Partial reopening of the Kerch bridge though traffic flows are a pittance.

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Old 20th Jul 2023, 07:03
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
.
Something to think about: during the Cold War, one of the assessed strategies of the Soviet Navy was offensive maritime mining operations. Basically, send a sub, or a few, loaded with mines to areas near an important port (of some nation) and put a bunch of mines down, then sub stays well out of territorial waters. .
Wait for the first ship (neutral or nation's ship) one to blow up a mine and see how cautious the {nation} gets.

I can see an op like that off of Odessa being already a part of a Russian Navy contingency plan.
you seem to be spot on, Lonewolf. Bloody Russkies, they never change.

"We received intelligence that the Russian Navy had laid sea mines on the approaches to Ukrainian ports with the aim of sinking commercial ships and blaming Ukraine", - US National Security Council spokesman Adam Hodge


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Old 20th Jul 2023, 09:05
  #3039 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beamr
you seem to be spot on, Lonewolf. Bloody Russkies, they never change.

"We received intelligence that the Russian Navy had laid sea mines on the approaches to Ukrainian ports with the aim of sinking commercial ships and blaming Ukraine", - US National Security Council spokesman Adam Hodge

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/...19251005702145
The real issue is at what point might China think that Russia is becoming more of an asset than a liability, or should that be Xi Jinping thinks that Putin meets that criteria.

"The war in Ukraine will have demonstrated the impotence of the United Nations if a permanent member of the Security Council with full veto power becomes a rogue state without consequence. For the havoc it created, Russia must now be evicted from the UN.

This is how.........

China is the only country in the Security Council that might veto sending a vote on expelling Russia to the General Assembly. If we want Russia to be appropriately punished, China must be offered a deal: "


I'm guessing that China - just like Turkey - might want a lot of sweeteners.

https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...a-from-the-un/
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Old 20th Jul 2023, 09:27
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India would be the next in line for the SC. Something China might not want to happen. What is better than a broken friend like Russia with all the reefs and claims issues brewing?
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