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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Old 20th May 2022, 11:53
  #5681 (permalink)  
 
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I vote the general for next PM. What a guy.
absolutely - unfortunately he seems to have intellect, honesty and integrity............and he can talk coherently without making choo choo noises.

In the last few minutes of the video he points out that redressing the parlous state of our armed forces would require leadership and cohesion from the PM, Chancellor, Sec state for Def and Home Secretary - with the clowns we have presently in those positions, not much hope for us.
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Old 20th May 2022, 11:55
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Originally Posted by macmp419
Posted earlier in Jet Blast, and worthy of an hour or so of your time.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/inde...8-bcccde927d06

Are they finally now going to get it?
There is someone in the building who has no illusions on what is happening. The surprise is that the committee is also well aware of the needs vs the status of play.
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Old 20th May 2022, 12:14
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I do not know if this is true, looks like Putin is having to resort to his new toys.

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Old 20th May 2022, 13:20
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
absolutely - unfortunately he seems to have intellect, honesty and integrity............and he can talk coherently without making choo choo noises.

In the last few minutes of the video he points out that redressing the parlous state of our armed forces would require leadership and cohesion from the PM, Chancellor, Sec state for Def and Home Secretary - with the clowns we have presently in those positions, not much hope for us.
Indeed. The 'best and brightest' rarely enter into politics and the quality of the current cabinet ministers and shadow ministers very much support this view. They are two groups chosen more for their political reliability than ability in their respective briefs.

"Lions led by donkeys" starts at the very top of government, unfortunately.

The impact of Russian influence over the last decade or so on our mechanisms of state should, of course, not be ignored. How much of the criticism the good General has towards the UK's short-sighted and misdirected defence policy has come about as a result of Russian political interference?

It would be interesting to have an honest appraisal released, unredacted, by the security services.
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Old 20th May 2022, 13:34
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
Add to that the fact that any male of fighting age who had pro-Russian sympathies has been drafted into the military ("you wanted to be part of Russia - now go fight for the Motherland!"). Honestly, what a bunch of dimwits - what they think would happen?? Zero sympathy from me.
few people in Ukraine are pro-Russian, regardless of their language skills. The have seen the disaster in Donbass since 2014 and don't want it. Before February the whole country was 95% anti Russian.
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Old 20th May 2022, 15:23
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I am intrigued by the current rush to supply Ukraine with Harpoon to “lift the blockade”. I am aware that ships are not moving at present but is there a blockade as such in place? I thought the issue was more one of the chances of bumping into a mine. I have not seen any reports of Russian vessels actually actually interfering with shipping and I am not sure how effective a missile that is limited to 250 km can be. That is not far enough to prevent the Russians using any of their naval ports and it is over 500 km from Odessa to Turkish waters as the crow flies, which I would have thought gives them scope form a blockade out of range.

I believe it is not clear who is responsible for the mines, but if they are free floating, as I have seen suggested, clearing them is going to be a problem and I would have thought the only solution would be convoys preceded by mine hunters which is a problem if to don’t have a navy.

I am also not sure what use the majority of the Russian Navy is at present. Does it have any role beyond support of an amphibious assault or firing missiles from offshore? In respect of the latter threat, these seem to be sm launched so Harpoon is no threat to them.
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Old 20th May 2022, 15:39
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Somewhat provocative flight path by the Russian Air Force over the Black Sea. Probably headed into Sevastopol - but still an interesting flight path. The US’s Global Hawk is not far off.


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Old 20th May 2022, 15:54
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Originally Posted by peter we
few people in Ukraine are pro-Russian, regardless of their language skills. The have seen the disaster in Donbass since 2014 and don't want it. Before February the whole country was 95% anti Russian.
I'd read that people in the likes of Melitopol and in the far east of Ukraine were broadly welcoming of the Russian forces, at least at the beginning, hence their apparent progress here.

As others have pointed out they may be a little more circumspect now. By way of example, I did see a video of some women living in the Donbas who were asking a Russian official as to the whereabouts of their husbands who'd been conscripted. They were less than impressed with his response, basically telling them he had no idea.
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Old 20th May 2022, 16:01
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
I am intrigued by the current rush to supply Ukraine with Harpoon to “lift the blockade”. I am aware that ships are not moving at present but is there a blockade as such in place? I thought the issue was more one of the chances of bumping into a mine. I have not seen any reports of Russian vessels actually actually interfering with shipping and I am not sure how effective a missile that is limited to 250 km can be. That is not far enough to prevent the Russians using any of their naval ports and it is over 500 km from Odessa to Turkish waters as the crow flies, which I would have thought gives them scope form a blockade out of range.

I believe it is not clear who is responsible for the mines, but if they are free floating, as I have seen suggested, clearing them is going to be a problem and I would have thought the only solution would be convoys preceded by mine hunters which is a problem if to don’t have a navy.

I am also not sure what use the majority of the Russian Navy is at present. Does it have any role beyond support of an amphibious assault or firing missiles from offshore? In respect of the latter threat, these seem to be sm launched so Harpoon is no threat to them.
I wondered whether it would be possible to transport the grain to Romania by rail or ship (hugging the Ukraine coast within Ukraine's ASM and SAM missile shield), for on-shipment from one of its ports on a neutral flagged vessel (if necessary with an escort to Turkish territorial waters)?
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Old 20th May 2022, 17:09
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BREAKING: Russia's Gazprom informs Finland that it will suspend natural gas exports tomorrow.
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Old 20th May 2022, 17:35
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The General

Originally Posted by Jerry Atrick
I vote the general for next PM. What a guy.
What?A PM on top of their subject, who has a sense of duty and profesionalism with a clear vision of how to improve the lot of the country? Whatever next?

A fascinating listen and thanks to macmp419 for the link.

We are rather scarily open about our deficiencies though,
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Old 20th May 2022, 17:51
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
I wondered whether it would be possible to transport the grain to Romania by rail or ship (hugging the Ukraine coast within Ukraine's ASM and SAM missile shield), for on-shipment from one of its ports on a neutral flagged vessel (if necessary with an escort to Turkish territorial waters)?
they transport it by rail to the Danube. And the first rail to Romania then ship was a week ago. Major effort to rail to Gdansk also planned.
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Old 20th May 2022, 18:12
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The main problem, as I see it, is Train hundreds of tons and Ship thousands of tons per load . Also Odessa to Middle East a bit shorter route rather than through Gdansk. But needs must.
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Old 20th May 2022, 18:39
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Originally Posted by Tengah Type
The main problem, as I see it, is Train hundreds of tons and Ship thousands of tons per load . Also Odessa to Middle East a bit shorter route rather than through Gdansk. But needs must.
The other issue is that Ukraine has a different gauge to the rest of Europe (it has the Russian gauge - something to change once this is over), so everything going by rail has to be transferred to different waggons at the border - I believe (if a radio item I heard recently is correct).
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Old 20th May 2022, 18:48
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Originally Posted by Tengah Type
The main problem, as I see it, is Train hundreds of tons and Ship thousands of tons per load . Also Odessa to Middle East a bit shorter route rather than through Gdansk. But needs must.
750m train can get to something like 2000+ tonnes of reasonably dense stuff.

In principle you can join two of these together with a locomotve in the middle.

If you look at the figures for aggregates being moved in the UK then you are looking at several 100,000s of thousands of tonnes being moved per month. from Somerset to the SE and London. (Though not the same distances as involved with areas such as Ukraine and Russia.)



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Old 20th May 2022, 19:58
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Originally Posted by AndySmith
The other issue is that Ukraine has a different gauge to the rest of Europe (it has the Russian gauge - something to change once this is over), so everything going by rail has to be transferred to different waggons at the border - I believe (if a radio item I heard recently is correct).
Many (all?) of the countries bordering Ukraine, Finland and the Baltic States have some or extensive/total 1520mm gauge rail infrastructure.

Whilst many areas of Poland and Hungary are converting lines to standard gauge (1434mm), both countries have seen reopenings of 1520mm lines in the last decade or so.
​​​​​​

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Old 20th May 2022, 20:11
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Originally Posted by AndySmith
The other issue is that Ukraine has a different gauge to the rest of Europe (it has the Russian gauge - something to change once this is over), so everything going by rail has to be transferred to different waggons at the border - I believe (if a radio item I heard recently is correct).
they change the wheels/bogies i believe. Its routine.
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Old 20th May 2022, 20:12
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I'm embarrassed for NATO, USA and the West. Some woman and bloke steals Russian fuel truck for local hospital under the noses of those scary terrible Russians.
Makes you wonder what have happened if NATO had stood it's ground 12 years ago.
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Old 20th May 2022, 20:36
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Originally Posted by peter we
they change the wheels/bogies i believe. Its routine.
Indeed, it is routine but there are probably not the sufficient quantity of bogies to swap for the necessary uplift in freight between Ukraine and Poland, for example - even if they could find enough suitable wagons to transport all the grain. I think that was the gist of the report I heard on the radio.
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Old 20th May 2022, 21:02
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
I am intrigued by the current rush to supply Ukraine with Harpoon to “lift the blockade”. I am aware that ships are not moving at present but is there a blockade as such in place? I thought the issue was more one of the chances of bumping into a mine. I have not seen any reports of Russian vessels actually actually interfering with shipping and I am not sure how effective a missile that is limited to 250 km can be.
A few civilian ships have already bumped into "flying mines" coming from Russian Navy ships at the beginning of the war. I'm guessing nobody wants to risk their ships in the area since then.



Later edit: a partial list of incidents collected from Wikipedia:

Yasa Jupiter — The bulk carrier, owned by the Turkish Ya-Sa Holding, was struck by a missile fired by Russian forces in the Black Sea off Odessa, Ukraine on 24 February 2022 and was damaged. She was on a voyage from the Dniepr to Constanța, Romania.

Millennial Spirit — The chemical tanker was shelled in the Black Sea off the coast of Ukraine on 25 February 2022. Its crew of ten were rescued.

Namura Queen — The cargo ship was struck in the Black Sea off the coast of Ukraine by a missile fired by Russian forces on 25 February 2022. There was no casualties reported and ship remains afloat.

Afina - On 26 February 2022, the bulk carrier was captured by Russian forces near Snake Island en route to Constanța, Romania. It was later released.

Princess Nikol - On 26 February 2022, the bulk carrier was captured by Russian forces near Snake Island en route to Constanța, Romania.

Banglar Samriddhi — The bulk carrier belonging to the Bangladesh Shipping Corporation was struck by a Russian missile at Mykolaiv and was set afire on 2 March 2022. One crew member, third engineer Hadisur Rahman, was killed.

Helt — The cargo ship, owned by the Tallinn-based Vista Shipping Agency, sank off the coast of Ukraine on 2 March 2022, likely after striking a mine. The Panama Maritime Authority later reported that the ship was sunk by a Russian missile. Four crew members were initially reported as missing and were later found. Also reported to have been captured by the Russian Navy and used as a shield against Ukrainian shellfire.

Lord Nelson — The Panama Maritime Authority reported that Russian missiles had damaged the Panamanian-flagged Lord Nelson. The ship remains afloat with no casualties reported.
Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...vilian_vessels

Last edited by MikeSnow; 20th May 2022 at 21:20. Reason: Add more incidents.
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