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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 21st May 2022, 18:42
  #5721 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by etudiant
Germany is conscious that it has recent history with Russia, unlike the rest of Europe. consequently they had a political consensus to deal with Russia as a friendly country after the Soviet Union collapsed.
I don't think that has changed, despite the current Ukraine conflict. Russia will still be there after this war is over, so Germany is engaged in damage control for now.
They will be very slow to deliver heavy weapons to Ukraine, partly because they have almost none themselves, partly because they do not want German arms attacking Russians again.
Similarly, they are understandably reluctant to trash their economy by ending their use of Russian energy, as that is an own goal with no offsetting benefit for Ukraine,
Obviously, this means that they are assuming that there will be a negotiated settlement .. That assumption may be in error, as the 'break the back' comments of the US Defense Secretary suggest that a clear defeat of the Russian invasion is the US/NATO objective.

.
In other words. They are leaving the heavy work and the risk to their future economies to other, smaller less wealthy countries ??
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Old 21st May 2022, 18:54
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No, they arm up, move forward own troops to protect fellow NATO countries, deliver arms and train Ukrainians, pay for many things elsewhere, house quite a few refugees and keep deliberately quiet about it as they have no party gate to cover up.
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Old 21st May 2022, 19:05
  #5723 (permalink)  
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Germany and Italy have agreed to pay Russia in Roubles for their gas imports.

Guess they won’t be cutting back on their imports any time soon.
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Old 21st May 2022, 19:13
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No surprise almost half of their gas is imported from Russia. Different to -say- France (24 percent) or NL (11 percent). It looks like a matter of time until they cut it off or get cut off anyway. But this will hurt Russia even more and it looks like a final financial blow to Russia kept at hand if needed. Russia had owned some gas tank farms in Germany and decided to have them almost empty right before they invaded. Now the Germans scramble to retake control and top off their bloody gas storages.
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Old 21st May 2022, 19:38
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Germany is conscious that it has recent history with Russia, unlike the rest of Europe.
In that the entire female population of E Germany and Berlin in particular aged between nine and ninety were once raped by the Soviet Army?

Sounds familiar...?

You'd think they's have a better developed sense of conscious after that rather than the craven appeasement they currently seem to favour.

It almost seems as if they haven't learned. Or worse; much, much worse, they don't appear to see the wrong in it...

Can you imagine Israel remaining unmoved over the organised extermination of Millions of any other race...?

Germany, wake up! - before you die in your culpable slumber of utter, craven shame.
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Old 21st May 2022, 20:03
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In the mid-90's, I spent 6 months in Sarajevo on a UN assignment on behalf of HM Govt.

I fear to say that some of the other countries represented there were painful to deal with.

France, Germany and `Spain to name three.

Denmark, Sweden and other relatively minor nations were fantastic. And I have to say that Denmark in particular was brilliant in its dealing with genocide and graves for victims of the atrocities. I attended one exhumation in a small village - and it was a memorable event for all the wrong reasons.

The major contributions to the resuscitation of Bosnia/Herzogovina were - in my opinion - by the UK and the USA.

Ukraine will be a very different challenge when/if Russia leaves anything there.
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Old 21st May 2022, 20:04
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Russia will be made to pay for the damage and repairs needed for some time to come.
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Old 21st May 2022, 20:25
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
Russia will be made to pay for the damage and repairs needed for some time to come.
At least that’s what we hope. Over the years post-war international agreements have been disappointing.
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Old 21st May 2022, 20:35
  #5729 (permalink)  
 
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Rather haunting final hours of Azovstal

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Old 21st May 2022, 20:45
  #5730 (permalink)  
 
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Is it me or are things changing, Germany, France and Italy faltering, Russian reports of destroying a lot of western aid, the retired General talking at a parliamentary select committee more or less writing Ukraine off as a buffer giving the rest of us a chance to rearm, something that sadly appears to fall on deaf ears until it will be to late.

And Russias push in the Donbass after the fall of Mariupol freeing up troops who are slowly pushing the brave Ukrainians back who those destroyed weapons were for, and finally Zelensky sounding downbeat and no longer pushing the give us the weapons and we can win, but rather it will be settled at the negotiating table.

i truly hope i am reading it wrong. If any countries start to breach the sanctions fuel wise the other countries should warn them that it will treat their exports unfavourably if they continue.
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Old 21st May 2022, 20:49
  #5731 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
and finally Zelensky sounding downbeat and no longer pushing the give us the weapons and we can win, but rather it will be settled at the negotiating table.

i truly hope i am reading it wrong.
I am afraid you are reading it correctly.

And the compromises necessary? Ukraine split in half?
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Old 21st May 2022, 21:10
  #5732 (permalink)  

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Gentlemen; this thread is rapidly becoming music to Mr P's ears. Let's lay off slagging other countries and being downbeat about the result. As for negotiating, I suspect Zelensky's final line is "you get out of Ukraine or we will, over time, grind you down."

The West is still united,albeit some giving more than others. Perhaps the arms being held back will prove very useful on the Finnish/Russian border.

Call me a deluded optimist, but I still believe that Ukraine is going to win.
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Old 21st May 2022, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Herod
Gentlemen; this thread is rapidly becoming music to Mr P's ears. Let's lay off slagging other countries and being downbeat about the result. As for negotiating, I suspect Zelensky's final line is "you get out of Ukraine or we will, over time, grind you down."

The West is still united,albeit some giving more than others. Perhaps the arms being held back will prove very useful on the Finnish/Russian border.

Call me a deluded optimist, but I still believe that Ukraine is going to win.
This is not about slagging other countries. Zelenskyy has mentioned compromise and whatever compromise may be reached it wil not involve a complete Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.
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Old 21st May 2022, 21:31
  #5734 (permalink)  
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Zelensky: 700,000 soldiers defending Ukraine now.

President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a televised interview on May 21 that 700,000 defenders of Ukraine are fighting all across the country, Ukrainska Pravda reported.
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Old 21st May 2022, 21:36
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I think so too Herod, but at what cost, we should have given them long range weapons to destroy their artillery thus protecting their towns and troops who must be under a murderous onslaught holding the line, I also think we should have provided jets, I still cannot see any reason why not, what is the Difference between giving the tanks or aircraft.

As I said when it kicked off the west should have sent in NATO peacekeepers to assist, in reaction to Russia claiming they were sending theirs.. the whole bloody war would have been thwarted..
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Old 21st May 2022, 21:52
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Originally Posted by ex-fast-jets
In the mid-90's, I spent 6 months in Sarajevo on a UN assignment on behalf of HM Govt.

I fear to say that some of the other countries represented there were painful to deal with.

France, Germany and `Spain to name three.

Denmark, Sweden and other relatively minor nations were fantastic. And I have to say that Denmark in particular was brilliant in its dealing with genocide and graves for victims of the atrocities. I attended one exhumation in a small village - and it was a memorable event for all the wrong reasons.

The major contributions to the resuscitation of Bosnia/Herzogovina were - in my opinion - by the UK and the USA.

Ukraine will be a very different challenge when/if Russia leaves anything there.
I was also in BiH in the 90s. My recollection was that the Spanish looked after the accomm in Sarajevo, the Germans ensured the BiH used the Convertible Mark as currency, and the French looked after themselves….
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Old 21st May 2022, 22:30
  #5737 (permalink)  
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Again… again?

Ukrainian troops say they destroyed a Russian battalion tactical group.

The group was liquidated while attempting to cross the Siversky Donets river near the village of Serebryanka in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine’s 30th Mechanized Brigade said.
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Old 22nd May 2022, 01:35
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I was wondering if the Ukranians have tried using RC “toy” cars/trucks as mobile claymore mines? Easy to conceal in the underbrush ready to dash out towards a passing enemy. Some of them are fast, have good range and large enough to carry a hefty load which, detonated under an armoured vehicle or amongst dismounted troops, would cause considerable damage. Even just a few would, if successful, give the Russian hordes something else to worry about.
Thought about today watching TV and saw a kid using one.

Last edited by albatross; 22nd May 2022 at 01:46.
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Old 22nd May 2022, 02:00
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Again… again?



Ukrainian troops say they destroyed a Russian battalion tactical group.

The group was liquidated while attempting to cross the Siversky Donets river near the village of Serebryanka in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine’s 30th Mechanized Brigade said.
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Old 22nd May 2022, 05:22
  #5740 (permalink)  
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Kids from #Mariupol arrived in the volunteer center. Smart & nice. Asked if they should share sweets. After a few swallows of water asked if could drink entire glass. Telling ab hometown, one boy replied: "There's no town left". His brother added "But the sea is still there..."
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