Air Training Corps
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Have kept quiet about the foregoing (have been absent from PPRuNe due to new baby, moving house, etc).
I'm ex-regular (seem to have been in similar position to lumpy jumper!) and try to uphold the standards of the regular RAF. I have been OC of 3 units in all and have maintained contact with the ATC over a period of 34 yrs (including cdt service). Fully agree that there are plenty of oxygen thieves around, but all in all, the Corps survives on the goodwill and efforts of many regular servicemen/women and volunteers. I've not got the time (or the inclination) to enter into the widdling contest that this thread seems to have become.
I would, however, not be motivated to take the cr@p that being in command of an ATC Sqn without a VR(T) commission. This is not because I feel good poncing around in an RAF uniform - it is an indication that we are a part of the parent service and provides us with the structure and responsibilities of QRs and MAFL. If I wished to be a Scout leader, I've have joined them.
End of message, End of broadcast!!
I'm ex-regular (seem to have been in similar position to lumpy jumper!) and try to uphold the standards of the regular RAF. I have been OC of 3 units in all and have maintained contact with the ATC over a period of 34 yrs (including cdt service). Fully agree that there are plenty of oxygen thieves around, but all in all, the Corps survives on the goodwill and efforts of many regular servicemen/women and volunteers. I've not got the time (or the inclination) to enter into the widdling contest that this thread seems to have become.
I would, however, not be motivated to take the cr@p that being in command of an ATC Sqn without a VR(T) commission. This is not because I feel good poncing around in an RAF uniform - it is an indication that we are a part of the parent service and provides us with the structure and responsibilities of QRs and MAFL. If I wished to be a Scout leader, I've have joined them.
End of message, End of broadcast!!
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Regional board having gone successfully, I now find myself faced with a formal dinner in two weeks time. There is a distinct lack of female officers in my Wing to ask for advice. The only one I know reasonably well is a Sqn Ldr, who suggested I try Snaiths for uniform. Circuit Basher sent me this link to North West Supplies, who sell Snaiths uniform, and "Messkitonline". Googling hasn't revealed anything else and there's nothing on Ebay. Does anyone know of anywhere that might be able to help?
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Only just seen this thread... Yep.. served as erk, NCO and Civvy Instructor with 43(F) back in the 50s/60s. One day some strange-shaped erks arrived - the WJACs had been ejected from their meeting place and were to share our hall with us. Of course, us lads protested vehemently for a good 10 nanoseconds...... I got on fairly well with one of the girls - we're still on our honeymoon after nearly 39 years.
High Flying Bird
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Originally Posted by Mike Jenvey
Dunno if it's still an option, but there used to be a reasonable supply of uniforms at Cranwell from cadets who had failed DIOT. [...] There's one here, 38" chest, 5' 5" tall, a snip at £275!!
[Go on, say it's too small.....
]
[Go on, say it's too small.....
]I had spotted the one you mention for sale and yes, it's too small.
I'm 5'7".
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AerBabe,
The Taylors at Cranwell do also have Number Fives as well.
As an aside, if you only did passed your Region Board in the last week, you may find that you won't be able to attend the dinner in uniform. My understanding is that even though you have passed the Region Board, you still need to wait for your Commission to be confirmed by HQAC - a process that can take up to six weeks. Until you have that confirmation, you shouldn't be wearing anyform of uniform or using any of the priveledges associated with a commission (use of the Mess, Claiming Pay etc).
Feel free to PM if you want more information.
The Taylors at Cranwell do also have Number Fives as well.
As an aside, if you only did passed your Region Board in the last week, you may find that you won't be able to attend the dinner in uniform. My understanding is that even though you have passed the Region Board, you still need to wait for your Commission to be confirmed by HQAC - a process that can take up to six weeks. Until you have that confirmation, you shouldn't be wearing anyform of uniform or using any of the priveledges associated with a commission (use of the Mess, Claiming Pay etc).
Feel free to PM if you want more information.
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I think Ibbi is right - in fact, in CCF (not sure about ATC) there is a rule that if attending annual camp before completing CCF IOT you could not attend in uniform (though would be paid). Check with HQAC as your commission will in fact be backdated to the date of your board.
messkitonline did mine and are excellent (quality superb) except (a) evidently they smoke, which means the uniform comes pre-impregnated, and (b) they had no idea where to put the VR(T) badges - better to order them separately and put them on yourself, in my experience...
Messkitonline is made to measure, and therefore £600 against Snaith off the peg £500.
And sadly, no, you can't get it at the 'issue' price...
Tim
messkitonline did mine and are excellent (quality superb) except (a) evidently they smoke, which means the uniform comes pre-impregnated, and (b) they had no idea where to put the VR(T) badges - better to order them separately and put them on yourself, in my experience...
Messkitonline is made to measure, and therefore £600 against Snaith off the peg £500.
And sadly, no, you can't get it at the 'issue' price...
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Aerbabe,
I concur with both posts below. Until you have a piece of paper from HQAC confirming your commission you are not commissioned and ergo not entitled to wear the uniform, rank et al. I understand your desire to don a blue suit as quickly as possible but I would caution you not to act prematurely because otherwise you are in danger of putting up a serious 'Black'.
In my case the confirmation of my commission was one month after my Regional board, and I was not officially informed for a good two weeks after that date!
My advice to you is to go to this wing dinner in appropriate civilian attire.
I concur with both posts below. Until you have a piece of paper from HQAC confirming your commission you are not commissioned and ergo not entitled to wear the uniform, rank et al. I understand your desire to don a blue suit as quickly as possible but I would caution you not to act prematurely because otherwise you are in danger of putting up a serious 'Black'.
In my case the confirmation of my commission was one month after my Regional board, and I was not officially informed for a good two weeks after that date!
My advice to you is to go to this wing dinner in appropriate civilian attire.
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I've been given the go-ahead from Wing to wear uniform at this event. Sorry if that wasn't clear...
Having phoned around a bit, I'm off to the station tailors at Cranwell on Weds.
Having phoned around a bit, I'm off to the station tailors at Cranwell on Weds.
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Taken the conversation "outside" from http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=1#post2515071
to here, which seems a little more appropriate.... Maybe I'm over-analysing what you said... but....
I'm quite aware of what my commissioning scroll says, and how it related to everyone else in the RAF thankyou! I'm quite aware that I am an Officer in the RAF, and I'm damn proud of that fact. I go out of my way to try to make sure I uphold the standards and traditions of my parent service.
But I've spent a total of 2 weeks (thats 10 days) at RAFC Cranwell, of which 5 of them were on a Senior Officers course. The training was almost ENTIRELY aimed at how to run a squadron of cadets, the rules and regs for such things, and the pitfalls. We had 1 day of leadership tasks and training. I had a great time, learned a lot, but pretty much bugger all about the RAF, how it operates, what it does, who runs what, etc etc, because I didn't need to know that. I learned how to look after my cadets properly. I knew enough beforehand that I wouldn't look like a tit in the mess, how to wear my uniform, who/what/when to salute, and hey - yes - I already knew something about the RAF because I'm interested.
I completely understand why some regulars have a problem with VRT officers (I do too sometimes), but thats not my problem - I am one - they can deal with it as they wish. I'm just going to make damn sure that they can take me seriously in the job I do, which is look after my cadets on their base. I'm not going to demand anything from them because I'm an officer and they're of a lower rank than me, or act like an arrogant sod who knows everything and doesn't need advice. I have no expectations when I'm on base - if we get a tour of a section, or a flight, then I'm grateful - I have a pretty good idea how busy the RAF is at the moment. I even know that some sections of the RAF have little or no respect for VRT officers bcause they've had a bad experience in the past - my aim is to make it as painless as possible for them and try to leave a positive impression.
So does that make me a bad officer? Believing that I'm not really a regular at all? Knowing my limitations? The spec for this job, over and above the basics, is an ability to observe and learn, liaise with the regulars, apply common sense, decency, and manners, a rapport with teenagers, a willingness to do a job for no credit, and to do jobs that need doing. Isn't this what the Regional board should be looking for as a priority, rather than stuff that can be learned?
I knew there was some point to what I was saying!
I know - I didn't say it was?
to here, which seems a little more appropriate.... Maybe I'm over-analysing what you said... but....
I'm quite aware of what my commissioning scroll says, and how it related to everyone else in the RAF thankyou! I'm quite aware that I am an Officer in the RAF, and I'm damn proud of that fact. I go out of my way to try to make sure I uphold the standards and traditions of my parent service.
But I've spent a total of 2 weeks (thats 10 days) at RAFC Cranwell, of which 5 of them were on a Senior Officers course. The training was almost ENTIRELY aimed at how to run a squadron of cadets, the rules and regs for such things, and the pitfalls. We had 1 day of leadership tasks and training. I had a great time, learned a lot, but pretty much bugger all about the RAF, how it operates, what it does, who runs what, etc etc, because I didn't need to know that. I learned how to look after my cadets properly. I knew enough beforehand that I wouldn't look like a tit in the mess, how to wear my uniform, who/what/when to salute, and hey - yes - I already knew something about the RAF because I'm interested.
I completely understand why some regulars have a problem with VRT officers (I do too sometimes), but thats not my problem - I am one - they can deal with it as they wish. I'm just going to make damn sure that they can take me seriously in the job I do, which is look after my cadets on their base. I'm not going to demand anything from them because I'm an officer and they're of a lower rank than me, or act like an arrogant sod who knows everything and doesn't need advice. I have no expectations when I'm on base - if we get a tour of a section, or a flight, then I'm grateful - I have a pretty good idea how busy the RAF is at the moment. I even know that some sections of the RAF have little or no respect for VRT officers bcause they've had a bad experience in the past - my aim is to make it as painless as possible for them and try to leave a positive impression.
So does that make me a bad officer? Believing that I'm not really a regular at all? Knowing my limitations? The spec for this job, over and above the basics, is an ability to observe and learn, liaise with the regulars, apply common sense, decency, and manners, a rapport with teenagers, a willingness to do a job for no credit, and to do jobs that need doing. Isn't this what the Regional board should be looking for as a priority, rather than stuff that can be learned?
I knew there was some point to what I was saying!
Just remember that the RAFVR(T) is not just held by staff of the ATC!
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Originally Posted by RayDarr
You can spend all day saluting each other and called yourselves sir, but the time has come to step back from the armed forces.
Maybe it's because RAF studies have shown they would have to spend far more on recruiting than the approx £10 million the ACO gets from the public purse, were it not for the ACO.
My source of that information? Gp Capt Cross, Chief of Staff at HQAC, speaking at an ATC Sqn Dining In last year.
So even though officially we are not a recruiting mechanism for the RAF, clearly we are.
As to the comments about VR(T) wearing the blue uniform, surely we should wear the same uniform as our cadets? Or do you want that uniform to be changed too? Maybe we should wear dark Navy, the SCC should wear DPM, and the ACF light blue? That way there should be no confusion when on RAF Stations.
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I've had the privilage of 'serving' (I should hope the pedantic of you participating in this discussion won't read anything into the use of that word) under what was overall a fantastic set of VR(ATC) Officers, AWO/SGTS, CI, and Civilian Commitee members; being an Air Cadet between the ages 16 & 18.
All of these people, INCLUDING those "w*nks" reffered to in earlier posts played parts, big and small, in providing me with opportunities that would most certainly have been unavailable to me had I not been involved with the ACO. Though the status and degree of authority given to some of these so called "substandard" VR(T) Officers is a source of resentment for some members of the parent service; I believe it to be barely worthy of discussion.
Let those service members with issues deal with them in their own way; be it through not saluting a VR(T) Officer, or through mocking they're ability/intelligence etc. But at the end of the day... it's all about the kids...
For every "w*nk" in contact with the kids who perhaps isn't a fantastic role model, there's also someone having a positive effect on their lives.
And for every regular serviceman carrying resentment and disrespect for those in the ATC VR(T), there is someone with respect for what they do (as a whole), and are happy to help enhance the experiences of the kids.
"W*nks" are present in all walks of life including the VR(T) I expect... being 20 I don't feel as if I can say that with absolute certainty!
But as with most organisations, within the ACO remains a net positive effect, and as long as there is a net positive effect, criticism directed at ATC VR(T) Officers (that isn't on an individual basis) is unwarranted, and when you look at what really matters - the kids - a disgruntled regular's opinion is of little significance.
The ACO played an immeasurable part in making my dreams come true, and I'm sure I'm not alone. And as it stands, I won't hear a bad word said about it.
All of these people, INCLUDING those "w*nks" reffered to in earlier posts played parts, big and small, in providing me with opportunities that would most certainly have been unavailable to me had I not been involved with the ACO. Though the status and degree of authority given to some of these so called "substandard" VR(T) Officers is a source of resentment for some members of the parent service; I believe it to be barely worthy of discussion.
Let those service members with issues deal with them in their own way; be it through not saluting a VR(T) Officer, or through mocking they're ability/intelligence etc. But at the end of the day... it's all about the kids...
For every "w*nk" in contact with the kids who perhaps isn't a fantastic role model, there's also someone having a positive effect on their lives.
And for every regular serviceman carrying resentment and disrespect for those in the ATC VR(T), there is someone with respect for what they do (as a whole), and are happy to help enhance the experiences of the kids.
"W*nks" are present in all walks of life including the VR(T) I expect... being 20 I don't feel as if I can say that with absolute certainty!
But as with most organisations, within the ACO remains a net positive effect, and as long as there is a net positive effect, criticism directed at ATC VR(T) Officers (that isn't on an individual basis) is unwarranted, and when you look at what really matters - the kids - a disgruntled regular's opinion is of little significance.The ACO played an immeasurable part in making my dreams come true, and I'm sure I'm not alone. And as it stands, I won't hear a bad word said about it.
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Chaps
Having read this thread from the begining I think we should draw a line under it, Yes I realise that every organisation has its posers, and timewasters, I know I met them all in 20+ years as a regular Officer, and as a VR(T) Officer. Both regulars and non regulars have their share, but we seem to be missing the point, where else can a youngster of 13 -18 get free Flying, Gliding, Adventure Training, Shooting, Microlighting, Hang Gliding, & Parachuting. Where can they go on visits to RAF Stations, both in the UK and Abroad? Have opportunities to learn new skills for next to nothing?
90% of this is only be available because of volunteers. Not many people these days want to give up 2 nights a week and most weekends to baby sit someone elses kids, and run the risk of being sued if jonny gets an eyelash stuck up his nose!
You regulars who decry the VR(T) may be steely eyed fighter aces (or not) Who have diced with death over the skies of some foreign city, but you try spending 6 hours a week at some inner city ATC Squadron, dealing with a constant barrage of Parents who are complaining because little Jimmy didn't get to go flying this time, or trying to raise the funds to send a cadet to camp because his parents can't afford the £35.00, or dealing with Social Services because one of your cadets' has trouble at home, or wading through the 60 odd sheets of paper required to send cadets on an adventure training exercise! Sometime I wish for the safety of a cockpit at 450 knots and 50 feet surround by AAA!
The old saying applies here don't knock it until you've tried it! It can be really rewarding, despite the oxygen thieves. However we all have our uses even the useless ones. So come on stop knocking people for trying until you see it from the other side!
Having read this thread from the begining I think we should draw a line under it, Yes I realise that every organisation has its posers, and timewasters, I know I met them all in 20+ years as a regular Officer, and as a VR(T) Officer. Both regulars and non regulars have their share, but we seem to be missing the point, where else can a youngster of 13 -18 get free Flying, Gliding, Adventure Training, Shooting, Microlighting, Hang Gliding, & Parachuting. Where can they go on visits to RAF Stations, both in the UK and Abroad? Have opportunities to learn new skills for next to nothing?
90% of this is only be available because of volunteers. Not many people these days want to give up 2 nights a week and most weekends to baby sit someone elses kids, and run the risk of being sued if jonny gets an eyelash stuck up his nose!
You regulars who decry the VR(T) may be steely eyed fighter aces (or not) Who have diced with death over the skies of some foreign city, but you try spending 6 hours a week at some inner city ATC Squadron, dealing with a constant barrage of Parents who are complaining because little Jimmy didn't get to go flying this time, or trying to raise the funds to send a cadet to camp because his parents can't afford the £35.00, or dealing with Social Services because one of your cadets' has trouble at home, or wading through the 60 odd sheets of paper required to send cadets on an adventure training exercise! Sometime I wish for the safety of a cockpit at 450 knots and 50 feet surround by AAA!
The old saying applies here don't knock it until you've tried it! It can be really rewarding, despite the oxygen thieves. However we all have our uses even the useless ones. So come on stop knocking people for trying until you see it from the other side!
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Apologies for raking this one up but I have a few thoughts to add.
After 20+ years in the RAF I fell in to my local ATC Sqn and very quickly found myself back in uniform but this time holding a VR(T) commission. Seemed like a good idea at the time!
Wind forward a few months and I get to the OIC at ATF and guess what, a room full of knobbers who are more intent in waltzing around in a uniform and larging it up in the mess. Mr Snaiths did a roaring trade. Suffice to say that my weeks experience at Cranwell was for me quite sickening and has left a very bad taste in my mouth and me wondering whether I wish to continue to be involved with a group of uber walts. Right now the thought of being in the VR(T) literally makes my skin crawl with shame, I feel that in some way I have brought shame on the uniform and the proud heritage of the real VR.
To my mind the VR(T) has no place in the Reserve Air Forces, it is nothing more than a youth organisation, a very good one, but a youth organisation nonetheless.
At first I didn't share RayDarrs views but I have to admit my outlook has changed and I now find myself firmly in his camp. I believe that all adult members of the ACO should be enrolled in the ATC/CCF as uniformed civilians, as are the adult SNCOs of the ATC thus creating a firm line between the war fighting element of the RAF and the youth organisation parented by the RAF.
The wearing of the uniform of the Queens armed services is a privelige and is earned, I do not believe that members of the VR(T) have earned that right, unless of course they are ex regulars.
After 20+ years in the RAF I fell in to my local ATC Sqn and very quickly found myself back in uniform but this time holding a VR(T) commission. Seemed like a good idea at the time!
Wind forward a few months and I get to the OIC at ATF and guess what, a room full of knobbers who are more intent in waltzing around in a uniform and larging it up in the mess. Mr Snaiths did a roaring trade. Suffice to say that my weeks experience at Cranwell was for me quite sickening and has left a very bad taste in my mouth and me wondering whether I wish to continue to be involved with a group of uber walts. Right now the thought of being in the VR(T) literally makes my skin crawl with shame, I feel that in some way I have brought shame on the uniform and the proud heritage of the real VR.
To my mind the VR(T) has no place in the Reserve Air Forces, it is nothing more than a youth organisation, a very good one, but a youth organisation nonetheless.
At first I didn't share RayDarrs views but I have to admit my outlook has changed and I now find myself firmly in his camp. I believe that all adult members of the ACO should be enrolled in the ATC/CCF as uniformed civilians, as are the adult SNCOs of the ATC thus creating a firm line between the war fighting element of the RAF and the youth organisation parented by the RAF.
The wearing of the uniform of the Queens armed services is a privelige and is earned, I do not believe that members of the VR(T) have earned that right, unless of course they are ex regulars.
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Having left the mob less than a year ago I too moved across to helping as a CI. I share DK's concern about some of the VR(T) officers and the more waltish elements within the adult staff in general, however, it's not a new problem. I can see the validity in the point DK raises, IMO Officers and NCOs should have at least served (even Army or, at a pinch, RN ) but I imagine with the way the Armed Forces have contracted down the years that would be impossible.
Having slagged off the VR(T) I must say my squadron's boss is an example of all that's good about it, keen, bright and enthusiastic (mind you he is an ex Fairy.) He thinks it's mildly amusing that he's been commissioned and uses his rank as a tool to get the job done and boost his people, rather than an aid to social climbing - much like many of the better bosses I had in the RAF
) but I imagine with the way the Armed Forces have contracted down the years that would be impossible. Having slagged off the VR(T) I must say my squadron's boss is an example of all that's good about it, keen, bright and enthusiastic (mind you he is an ex Fairy.) He thinks it's mildly amusing that he's been commissioned and uses his rank as a tool to get the job done and boost his people, rather than an aid to social climbing - much like many of the better bosses I had in the RAF
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in any organisation (RAF included) you're going to get nobbers and walts at all ranks, DK338, it's unfortunate that you had a whole course of them. But as maple states; there are a lot of good people out there doing a job for nothing in return except the satisfaction of a job well done.
I'll state my case again
a) a volunteer is worth 10 pressed men
and
b) this situation of nobbers and walts will only be sorted by addressing the recruitment and training of VR(T) personnel by the top brass - but that's not going to happen is it?
I'll state my case again
a) a volunteer is worth 10 pressed men
and
b) this situation of nobbers and walts will only be sorted by addressing the recruitment and training of VR(T) personnel by the top brass - but that's not going to happen is it?
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Just managed to read all the posts.
Mr. Darr, Mr. Darr. I don't think I have had the pleasure of meeting you but pardon me for being impertinent.
The ATC is about the kids, most join because they want to get involved with the exitement of aviation and dare I say the military aspects. They don't want to become scouts.
Therefore the uniform of Her Majesty's Air Force is essential to provide some affiliation. Yes, the badging has to be clear because when I was a CWO, back in the seventies most our cadet SNCO'S had more facial hair than some of the new squaddies.
The VR-T officers in my Sdn. No 362(Ashleigh School Sqn.) were all ex national service commissioned, so therefore all knew the ropes.
The RAF as far as i know are not exempt from employing t*ssers as officers, what is happening at cranwell? By the way, 3 of my mates are ex Tornado drivers and the tales of poor discipline on their part explain why they are flying for the air touring company, Bransons Kites, and Sleazy Jet.
By the way I was a member from 1971 to 1980 as a cadet through to CWO and then CI.
I feel that an officer structure is neccesary for, dare I say a pseudo miltary organisation, yes yes I know it's supposed to be a youth organisation. The phrase in mind "we look up to them and they look down on us" springs to mind but I never felt that was the case. However whatever the situation was in the 70's I feel something has changed, perhaps the pretty distractions for the lads???.
Anyway my thoughts, don't get rid of the officers, kick them up the arse properley before they get a posting to a Sdn. remind them regulary of what the ATC stands for.
I'm now 47 wondering how I can best pay back some of the time the ATC and the RAF gave me, or am I too old.
If any Sdn. needs help I live in Cheshire about a mile from M6 J19.
The ATC is about the kids, most join because they want to get involved with the exitement of aviation and dare I say the military aspects. They don't want to become scouts.
Therefore the uniform of Her Majesty's Air Force is essential to provide some affiliation. Yes, the badging has to be clear because when I was a CWO, back in the seventies most our cadet SNCO'S had more facial hair than some of the new squaddies.
The VR-T officers in my Sdn. No 362(Ashleigh School Sqn.) were all ex national service commissioned, so therefore all knew the ropes.
The RAF as far as i know are not exempt from employing t*ssers as officers, what is happening at cranwell? By the way, 3 of my mates are ex Tornado drivers and the tales of poor discipline on their part explain why they are flying for the air touring company, Bransons Kites, and Sleazy Jet.
By the way I was a member from 1971 to 1980 as a cadet through to CWO and then CI.
I feel that an officer structure is neccesary for, dare I say a pseudo miltary organisation, yes yes I know it's supposed to be a youth organisation. The phrase in mind "we look up to them and they look down on us" springs to mind but I never felt that was the case. However whatever the situation was in the 70's I feel something has changed, perhaps the pretty distractions for the lads???.
Anyway my thoughts, don't get rid of the officers, kick them up the arse properley before they get a posting to a Sdn. remind them regulary of what the ATC stands for.
I'm now 47 wondering how I can best pay back some of the time the ATC and the RAF gave me, or am I too old.
If any Sdn. needs help I live in Cheshire about a mile from M6 J19.
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I think its pertinent to say that it was a relatively natural progression that ex-servicemen fell into the Cadet Forces, but naturally times have changed and there is a perceived greater responsibility and liability with working with Children that deter many from getting involved after they leave.
Without being picky there are problems with this statement. Yes ultimately RAF VR(T) Officers hold responsibility for looking after Cadets in both CCF and ATC Units. However, there are equally RAFVR(T) Officers with the responsibility of running Squadrons of Military Aircraft (from Flying Supervisory roles to Engineering Maintenance) and complying with RAF and Joint Services regulations. It would be imposible to imagine the RAF or MOD alowing civilians to hold such responsibility.
Inevitably some individuals decide to “wear” their commission rather than taking status of the role to which they are commissioned into. The latter being the more appropriate stance, but that is human nature … and its not just isolated to RAF VR(T) Officers!
Quite right, with the ACO (along with the other Cadet Forces) mimicking the Armed Forces, such a structure is necessary. For a start they are seen more in public that the Armed Forces. It also teaches the “youth” about their national defence, which in turn gives them respect for the men and women serving and respect for the head of state.
To my mind the VR(T) has no place in the Reserve Air Forces, it is nothing more than a youth organisation, a very good one, but a youth organisation nonetheless.
Without being picky there are problems with this statement. Yes ultimately RAF VR(T) Officers hold responsibility for looking after Cadets in both CCF and ATC Units. However, there are equally RAFVR(T) Officers with the responsibility of running Squadrons of Military Aircraft (from Flying Supervisory roles to Engineering Maintenance) and complying with RAF and Joint Services regulations. It would be imposible to imagine the RAF or MOD alowing civilians to hold such responsibility.
Inevitably some individuals decide to “wear” their commission rather than taking status of the role to which they are commissioned into. The latter being the more appropriate stance, but that is human nature … and its not just isolated to RAF VR(T) Officers!
I feel that an officer structure is neccesary for, dare I say a pseudo miltary organisation
Quite right, with the ACO (along with the other Cadet Forces) mimicking the Armed Forces, such a structure is necessary. For a start they are seen more in public that the Armed Forces. It also teaches the “youth” about their national defence, which in turn gives them respect for the men and women serving and respect for the head of state.
TAC Int Bloke
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Just to make one thing perfectly clear
In these days of equal rights I demand that the 'nobber' potential of many Swinderby and Halton (Scumbag College, Aylesbury) graduates be recognised alongside that of their Sleaford Tec commissioned brethren
(Former student of the Polytechnic of West Lincolnshire - campus now known as Witham St Hughs - WTF?)
The RAF as far as i know are not exempt from employing t*ssers as officers, what is happening at Cranwell?
(Former student of the Polytechnic of West Lincolnshire - campus now known as Witham St Hughs - WTF?)
Last edited by Maple 01; 9th May 2006 at 23:06.