Air Training Corps
 

Just wondered if there was any member of the Air Training Corps use this forum.

:)

It would appear so:rolleyes:

probably, but no-one will admit it, lest they attract incoming. :}
try over on www.aircadetcentral.net/forums

Incoming Alert
 

I am happy to admit that the Third Pillar of the Royal Air Force use this forum.

Please do not forget that according to MOD figures 60% of Commission Holders and 75% of Non Commissioned personnell are ex-Air Cadets. So step out of the closet and be proud of your past!

Try Southside. He appears to be an Air Cadet who occasionally looks at the Sea Cadet website too.

Meeee owwwww;)

As a former ATC cadet, and a former ACLO at Abingdon and Manby, I would be surprised if ATC & CCF cadets did not venture onto this forum.

They, like all RAF personnel, are volunteers. They are members of those organisations because they want to be; not because they are forced into it. We should be grateful that so many are proud to wear RAF uniform from choice in today's world.

PS

During WW2 a Spitfire Sqn "Scramble" at Biggin Hill was made possible by ATC cadets whilst the Sqn groundcrew were at lunch.

If you have any spare time, now or in the future, consider offering some of it to an ATC squadron. They are the future, as the recruiting stats show.

You don't have to turn up twice a week and teach - join their civilian commitee, probably four meetings a year; wangle some favours from your friends in the right places to get them trips and visits; help them with your Service-learned skills of leadership, teaching and having a good time in adversity.

I've done some of the above, and spent a couple of parade nights helping them put together a presentation about their activities - they gave it to an audience of 50 odd last night, and all I heard afterwards were good things about their enthusiasm and turn-out.

You might even have fun :8

I should add that you don't have to leave the Services before volunteering - we have four JRs/NCOs from the secret Oxon RW airbase who come and help, often.

From the ATC website:

The Corps, which has charitable status, is not a recruiting organization but many members do go on to have careers in the Royal Air Force, other Services or civilian life. Currently approximately 50% of all aircrew (pilots, navigators and NCO aircrew) and 40% of Officers are ex-Cadets.

So Sprys fiqures are a little inflated. I asked HQ ACO for the up to date fiqures (the reason why is imaterial) and they did not know. The website stats have been around a little while now and may no longer be the case. Being involved in the training system since 1990 off and on, I do not think that the post ATC recruitment is as much as it is claimed, and many unit visitors on work experience have no ATC/CCF background.

As an ex cadet, a father of cadets, a ex CI. an ACLO and supporter of several ATC Sqns according to where I was posted at the time, I think I know something about this. Indeed, Mrs Darr is ex VRT, ex CI and current Civ Committee member of an ATC Sqn.
My view is it is a great organisation for kids, and contains a large number of committed adults doing their best. It is however spoiled by the internal politics and the small number of idiots who like to ponce about in uniform pretending to be officers in the RAF. Now as they hold a VR(T) commission, they actually are , but with only a week reading and writing course, they know the square root of bugger all about the real service. I have great respect for the RAF people who turn up at their local Sqn to help out. They are in the minority however, and people on the inside with real RAF experience ane few and far between. In fact people with real RAF experience are often considered a threat, and I have observed several over the years,being slowly frozen out because the "In Crowd" didn't want someone in their private club knowing the real way of doing things. I have also seen very successful Sqns decimated, because of jealousy by others on "the wing staff" Some of the tricks would make you cry.
While I would wish the ATC to continue and prosper, I think it is about time the RAFVR(T) was abolished, and the adult staff were given an alternative identity. The committed leaders would remain, but the posers, having lost the ability to walk round our stations and make our airmen salute them, would soon drift away.The ATC would become a better run organisation for that.
Now, I expect I have started WW3 with the above. I hope not, as I have a lot to thank the ATC for, both on my own account, and for my children, all ex cadets. I honestly think however that it needs a serious shake up to get rid of those who do it no good and who seem to be in it for their own benefit rather than for the kids.

I'll stick my head above the parapet.

As a current RAF VR(T) Officer, commanding a squadron of 50 odd cadets, I'm confident that I'm not in the minority of idiots who tar the name of the VR(T) with office politics, and empire building.

I do have to ask RayDarr - with what would you replace it?

I also have to add that I have the utmost respect for our "service helpers" but unfortunatly in this day and age, they cannot be relied on, not because they are unreliable per se; but they are down for a couple of months all keen and enthusiastic, and then they ahve to go do guard duty for a week, they go off to sandy places, and they have night shifts, or training to do. Therefore I can't rely on them to be available consistently. Not their fault - you guys are overstretched as it is. It's just the way it is for me (and I have an East midlands, harrier base practically on my doorstep.

We have cr@p officers, because of two things

1) there is a nationwide shortage of officers: ergo: We'll take anyone who is prepared to put on the blue suit.
2) The selection process is not rigorous enough, and the follow up leadership and management training and support is naff to say the least.

and point 3 - you'll always get some tw@t who gets through the system because they know how to jump through all the right hoops.


also, where the ACO used to be staffed greatly by ex-regular personnel no-one leaving the service these days wants anything but bugger all to do with us. They cannot get out of the parent organisation and away from it fast enough - do you think they really want to help us? nope.

hey-ho.:sad:

All good points, well made!

I must 'fess up to being a CI in the ATC. Flame me all you like - I have broad shoulders!

Edit: Bejesus, was that really my first post - guess I'm officially a 9 month troller then!

Well I'm not afraid to admit that I'm an ex-ATC Cdt of 7 years, ex-CI of 3 years, and now a serving Airman who has been known to help the ATC out.

Some of the best times I had as a teenager were with the ATC, especially the chance to sun myself for 2 weeks in Cyprus! (Hmm, that's more than the RAF have given me! <packs his cold weather gear for his impending Falklands Det!> :}

Ex-cadet and Ex-VRT officer here.

The ATC was fantastic when I was a teenager - I benefitted hugely from many top-notch courses, flying/gliding courses etc which influenced my subsequent career choice (civvi pilot U/T at the moment) but as an adult member of staff I found a number of my colleagues (by NO means all - I had the pleasure to work with and know a number of top men and women) were soley interested in themselves, often to the detriment of the cadets.

Also the Wing Staff often (and again I must stress that the bad apples often were far more visible than the good eggs) were living in a world of their own - which restricted some activites course etc available to cadets.

However, I believe that the Air Training Corps is a very worthwhile organisation that does a huge amount of good work with young people - and it should continue to do so.

Agree with RayDarrs comment on the identity change for the VRT - the status of the officers who, to gain a Queens Commission (with all that goes with it) have to do what they do, should be altered.

Head now below parapet....!

Couldn't agree more, hence I've recently joined my local Squadron as a CI.

The staff, both uniformed and civilian do their utmost to ensure that the cadets get as much exposure to Service life as is possible, but unless more serving or former-serving personnel become involved, constraints on availability notwithstanding, there is the danger that the ATC many of us enjoyed in the past will become nothing more than a youth club, something neither the cadets nor staff would wish.

As for the debate on VR(T) status, surely this is a matter of 'gentle' education of miscreants? Compared to the days when I was a cadet, it would appear that VR(T) Officers who have served are in the minority. To expect them to understand the ethos of Service life without a great deal of exposure is a little far-fetched. There is insufficient time on the Induction Course to give more than a basic understanding of expectations.

Spot on RayDarr,

As an ex-cadet of 9 years cadet service I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. Indeed I saw quite a few of the 'posers' while a cadet and in my 9 years commissioned service in the mob I've seen them continue to swank around the Mess. Don't get me wrong - there are some fine individuals out there who are in it for the benefit of the kids but their visibility is reduced by the rage-fuelling behaviour of the minority. I wouldn't be where I am now without the Air Cadet Organization and I have helped whenever possible as ACLO, but I still don't think I have fully paid up my debt to the organization.

If someone can introduce some form of 'Adult Leader' type of status rather than our rank structure it would certainly help to wheedle out the undesirables (often those who have been unsuccessful at joining at OASC). That said, consideration must be given to the fact that this may result in less visibility of the RAF for the kids (oops - I forgot the ACO is not there for recruitment).

I learnt a great deal in the ATC, especially when a unit of the Girls Nautical Taining Corps started using the drill hall next door. There can't be many PPruners who lost their virginity on an RAF greatcoat:O

PAMCC - Sadly, as some have already said in this thread, if your not part of the "in-crowd" your pushed out by the poser wannabes!

I agree in principle - but the problem is, IMHO, that a lot of those that should be 'educated' are in positions where they cannot be. A lot of people working at the coalface, in squadrons, have become at best annoyed by posers/wannabes/etc working higher up.

Having said that though, I have encountered the exact opposite, where the people working above squadron level have been fantastic.

Er, well, now you come to mention it....:O

Now who thought it would be a good idea to share parade nights with the Girls Venture Corps (Air Wing)?