Air Training Corps
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Between a Rock and a Hard Place
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Having read this thread and bitten my lip thus far, I now feel I must add my £0.02..
Having been fortunate enough to hold a commission in all three of Her Majesty's Royal Air Forces (Firstly RAF, then RAFVR(T) and currently RAuxAF), I feel I can offer at least a balanced opinion.
1. The RAF is full of good guys and w*nks. The w*nks stand out more, however there are more good guys to deal with them - hence the good guys win.
2. The RAuxAF is full of good guys and w*nks. The w*nks stand out more, however with the good guys on the squadron, and regular interaction with the Regular Air Force on exercise and War Appointments, there are more good guys to deal with them - hence the good guys win.
3. The RAFVR(T) is full of good guys and w*nks. The w*nks stand out more, but because they are in much less contact with good guys within the VR(T), RAuxAF and the RAF, they get away with it. Then when on Camp or a Station visit, the good guys bring the w*nk into check, bubbles are burst and things get blown out of proportion.
The problem with the VR(T) is that because it is quite insular, the w*nks find it easier to get into a position of responsibility, get little or no training in command and therefore get the rest of the VR(T) Officers tarred with the same brush.
I believe the answer is not to disband the RAFVR(T), but for Regional Commandants and OC's Wing to get out on the shop floor and get a grip of their staff. The only reason the people get away with it is that local commanders are not enforcing rules and standards for fear of losing an already low staff base, or are themeselves one of the w*nks mentioned above. Catch 22.
RayDarr
I don't believe your VR(T) "bashing" is coming across in the manner you have intended. I feel you seek to look at the ethics of whether a VR(T) Officer, by virtue of his/her commission, requires to be authorised "....to exercise and well discipline in their duties such Officers, Airmen and Airwomen as may be placed under your orders from time to time and use your best endeavours to keep them in good Order and Discipline." This is valid since there are no Airmen or Airwomen in the RAFVR(T).
Furthermore the paragraph stating "And We do hereby command them to Obey you as their superior Officer..........according to the Rules and Discipline of War..." serves no purpose to an RAFVR(T) Officer.
I agree that the authority granted by the commission itself could do with being changed, however I see no need for a change in uniform as long as ASNCO's, AWO's and ACF Officers/SI's continue to wear regular pattern uniform and badges.
A solution could be to change the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve commission in toto as the APO's of the RAFVR(UAS) also do not require the above authorisations.
The part that states "...and you to Observe and follow such Orders and Directions as from time to time you shall receive from Us, or any superior Officer....in pursuance of the Trust hereby reposed in you" should remain in order to give Senior Officers and Commanders from The Air Force Board downward, a legal right to issue orders to what would otherwise be civilian volunteers.
As far as "levels" of commisions, the authority granted to a holder of a VR commission (no such thing as a VR(T) commission as the (T) is a branch Indicator), RAuxAF or Regular Commission are effectively the same, however the seniority of authority for each is laid down in QR's. It is up to those who train Officers of any of our Forces or Cadet Forces to ensure that Officers are aware of their responsibility to be familiar with QR's, especially those that relate directly to their office.
None of the above takes away from the fantastic work that the Air Cadet Organisation as a whole undertakes!
Having been fortunate enough to hold a commission in all three of Her Majesty's Royal Air Forces (Firstly RAF, then RAFVR(T) and currently RAuxAF), I feel I can offer at least a balanced opinion.
1. The RAF is full of good guys and w*nks. The w*nks stand out more, however there are more good guys to deal with them - hence the good guys win.
2. The RAuxAF is full of good guys and w*nks. The w*nks stand out more, however with the good guys on the squadron, and regular interaction with the Regular Air Force on exercise and War Appointments, there are more good guys to deal with them - hence the good guys win.
3. The RAFVR(T) is full of good guys and w*nks. The w*nks stand out more, but because they are in much less contact with good guys within the VR(T), RAuxAF and the RAF, they get away with it. Then when on Camp or a Station visit, the good guys bring the w*nk into check, bubbles are burst and things get blown out of proportion.
The problem with the VR(T) is that because it is quite insular, the w*nks find it easier to get into a position of responsibility, get little or no training in command and therefore get the rest of the VR(T) Officers tarred with the same brush.
I believe the answer is not to disband the RAFVR(T), but for Regional Commandants and OC's Wing to get out on the shop floor and get a grip of their staff. The only reason the people get away with it is that local commanders are not enforcing rules and standards for fear of losing an already low staff base, or are themeselves one of the w*nks mentioned above. Catch 22.
RayDarr
I don't believe your VR(T) "bashing" is coming across in the manner you have intended. I feel you seek to look at the ethics of whether a VR(T) Officer, by virtue of his/her commission, requires to be authorised "....to exercise and well discipline in their duties such Officers, Airmen and Airwomen as may be placed under your orders from time to time and use your best endeavours to keep them in good Order and Discipline." This is valid since there are no Airmen or Airwomen in the RAFVR(T).
Furthermore the paragraph stating "And We do hereby command them to Obey you as their superior Officer..........according to the Rules and Discipline of War..." serves no purpose to an RAFVR(T) Officer.
I agree that the authority granted by the commission itself could do with being changed, however I see no need for a change in uniform as long as ASNCO's, AWO's and ACF Officers/SI's continue to wear regular pattern uniform and badges.
A solution could be to change the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve commission in toto as the APO's of the RAFVR(UAS) also do not require the above authorisations.
The part that states "...and you to Observe and follow such Orders and Directions as from time to time you shall receive from Us, or any superior Officer....in pursuance of the Trust hereby reposed in you" should remain in order to give Senior Officers and Commanders from The Air Force Board downward, a legal right to issue orders to what would otherwise be civilian volunteers.
As far as "levels" of commisions, the authority granted to a holder of a VR commission (no such thing as a VR(T) commission as the (T) is a branch Indicator), RAuxAF or Regular Commission are effectively the same, however the seniority of authority for each is laid down in QR's. It is up to those who train Officers of any of our Forces or Cadet Forces to ensure that Officers are aware of their responsibility to be familiar with QR's, especially those that relate directly to their office.
None of the above takes away from the fantastic work that the Air Cadet Organisation as a whole undertakes!
It's all down to accountability. VRT's flying HM planes or shooting HM guns can be held accountable for any cock - ups which occur, while a civvi couldn't be held accountable.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford
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Now, there is as much, if not more emphasis on "Citizenship" as there is on drill, theory of flight, and the other "air force" subjects.
RayDarr - you are massively missing the point about a VR(T) having the authority and responsibility to protect cadets. First, we are told in no uncertain terms during IOT, and regularly reminded, that this is the case, and that no matter how senior the regular RAF person who is putting cadets at risk, we must intervene - and have the authority to do so. And secondly, it's not mostly about health & safety, it's about child protection, about which 99.9% of the RAF know absolutely b@gger all, and on which we (particularly CCF, where we are almost all professional teachers) are experts.
And CCF wear the regular RAF cap badge because we've been around longer :-P
Tim
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
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obviously raydar has no mates so he will pick on staff and cadets from the VRT!
Lighten up mate and remember VRT are here to stay!!!
Get over it and don't take out your shortfall in the RAF on VRT's that give up their time voluntary!
END of!!!!
Lighten up mate and remember VRT are here to stay!!!
Get over it and don't take out your shortfall in the RAF on VRT's that give up their time voluntary!
END of!!!!
High Flying Bird
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Not wanting to join in the fight ... I'll just add quietly that I've been a Civilian Instructor for three years (one year with Surrey wing and two with Essex), and have my regional board on Thursday. 
Join Date: May 2005
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Good luck AerBabe - we need more wimmin joining up.
Just be yourself, and maybe consider popping over to
www.aircadetcentral.net/forums
to tell everyone about it when you've passed. You'll be made very welcome.
Just be yourself, and maybe consider popping over to
www.aircadetcentral.net/forums
to tell everyone about it when you've passed. You'll be made very welcome.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Please whatever you do don't bother with 'mickeymousecentral.net......'. I made the mistake of perusing that awful site and reading the dross that is posted there very nearly prompted me to withdraw my application for a VR(T) commission.
Bunch of muppets the lot of them.
Bunch of muppets the lot of them.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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Shame about the "very nearly" there, L-H. Not to late to pack it in. 
Actually, that may be unjustified but your manner makes you come across like one of the bottom-feeders that the ACO would be well rid of. You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?
Actually, that may be unjustified but your manner makes you come across like one of the bottom-feeders that the ACO would be well rid of. You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Tourist, if you dont like it, then you dont have to read it, and posting would mean you actually CARED! 
Despite some rather pointless argumentative posts, and a few people with issues with the ATC/VRT/mis-spelling of Oggies, this has been a very encouraging thread, and to be honest, even the negative posts give us food for thought. Like us or loath us though, I think we'll be around for a while. The reason this thread is here I guess is to make sure that you guys know who we are and what we do, get a bit of support, encourage you to help out, and to make sure that WE know what you expect from US! We dont want to piss you off, so we'd rather know what we're doing wrong, and either put it right, or try to explain why it happens, or why we can't do a thing about it!
Despite some rather pointless argumentative posts, and a few people with issues with the ATC/VRT/mis-spelling of Oggies, this has been a very encouraging thread, and to be honest, even the negative posts give us food for thought. Like us or loath us though, I think we'll be around for a while. The reason this thread is here I guess is to make sure that you guys know who we are and what we do, get a bit of support, encourage you to help out, and to make sure that WE know what you expect from US! We dont want to piss you off, so we'd rather know what we're doing wrong, and either put it right, or try to explain why it happens, or why we can't do a thing about it!
