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EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

EK to Decommission 50%+ of Airbus A380, Axe 1/2 of Pilots & Cabin Crew

Old 4th Sep 2020, 19:24
  #901 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by White Knight
nervous_novice

This forum is about information... Just passing it on. There are still many people employed here... This thread is looked at by them too...
Mr Instagram Super pilot extraordinaire,

I understand that there is still people employed here. They also open emails sent from HH. They weren't who you were targeting.
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Old 4th Sep 2020, 22:40
  #902 (permalink)  
 
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Dubai is like that person most of us know, who lives on credit to keep up appearances. Latest toys, flash car, bling and glitz all on the never never. He’s fine as long as he retains his job and keeps up the payments. A crisis soon reveals the precarious state of his finances.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coro...bt-crisis.html
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Old 4th Sep 2020, 23:07
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Dubai is like that Emirates pilot most of us know....
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 02:18
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Originally Posted by nervous_novice
I understand that there is still people employed here. They also open emails sent from HH. They weren't who you were targeting.
I didn't see you comment about the quote below n_n or is it just my posts you don't like? This thread has many other references to salary and allowances!

Originally Posted by Jetstreem
50% basic cut extended for a further 3 months. Any adjustments to other benefits?
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 06:49
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Another thing to put in the pot relating to cash crisis etc from post #911, this Gas field was found in Dubai in February but got forgotten a bit due COVID. Potentially lots of future revenue for Dubai


Gas field Jebel Ali
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 13:43
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nervous_novice.

I am not getting at ANYONE at all. If that's how you see it then so be it... Besides, many have already left, long before LDS, so don't have any emails from the company any more. Many of them are possibly quite interested with what's happening as they still have friends here. Again, if you wish to keep on misreading my intent then that is, of course, your prerogative!

Anyway, when I'm away on leave (which I will be shortly - unpaid) then I usually glean any company happenings from forums such as this as I most certainly do not log on to the crew portal when I'm out of Dubai. Maybe there are others who do the same heh?

PS You know who I am. If you know where I live feel free to stop by and I'm always happy to discuss things over a cold beer!
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 14:37
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Originally Posted by EchoKilla
well said. There is no such thing as empathy in this forum sadly
I will freely admit that I have very little - but not none - compassion for people putting themselves against a wall, often out of greed, and then coing to complain or look for sympathy.

EK / Dubai is a ruthless place to be or work as an expat and no sensible person can ignore it in this day and age. It was always the case, initially balanced by what was a very generous pay package (which, in my book, lasted longer than one would expect but that's another story).
The Covid crisis is unquestionably very much affecting the whole industry and EK is probably among the hardest hit given their network and commercial positioning. To expect anything but a brutal response was just plain delusional. And, at the risk of repeating myself, them reinstating full basic package is actually to be seen as fairly positive and unexpected, both in terms of pay level and timing (we are definitely not out of the woods yet). You can come complain here about how unjust and uncaring they are, but except for a few unfortunate and exceptional circumstances you will not have my sympathy.

Last edited by atakacs; 5th Sep 2020 at 16:24.
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 04:39
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As those are lay-off titled as un-gainfully employed - named so by STC himself it was never an option for him to save jobs in the way you described it. And with all those rumors about a cost metric software being involved They never had the plan to do anything different. With a software in place they started preparing the lay-off in early April - so basically with day number one of the lock down they where on the jump to lay-off staff. The so called careful analysis and decision making was not more than keep face propaganda - there haven’t been any other ideas except the chosen one.
EK has 27bnAED cash now to burn for this year - yes they need to saved it to go along as long as possible - 1200 pilots (50/50 on capo and fo side ) cost roughly 1bnAED for 1 year -
it is clear they simply didn’t want to spend it on un-gainfully employed staff - it was worth to spend money on a financial adviser companies and in software but not staff
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 08:16
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I guess they have been burning through their cash reserves over the last few months due to 100+ A380s sitting on the ground. They have probably reached an agreement where they have to pay very little for the grounded aircraft (if anything at all) hence they can afford to pay full salaries to those remaining. Keeping everyone on 70% pay or part-time or anything else wouldn't have had the same financial outcome. Accommodation allowance, schooling, provident fund, medical, etc. are all a substantial cost for the company. They followed the financial advise of a 3rd party which was probably the cheapest option at the time. I feel for the people made redundant but its easy to say what they should have done and not easy to make the correct decision facing the crisis nobody has ever faced before. It is what it is. Writing numerous posts here about how it could all have been done differently wont change anything.
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 08:20
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Hear hear...
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 09:10
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There was no doubt that they would have to layoff staff. The biggest problem I have with it is the underhanded disgusting manner of doing so. I can only speak for the way I have seen it done to the pilots, but to get rid of people based on surgery that cured a problem, or because someone was pregnant, is not the way to do things. These are costs that the company could have easily avoided by not going down the self insurance route, whilst yet again trying to save money. Getting rid of these people doesn't even solve an issue, do they honestly think that the remaining staff will not have issues at some stage? This is a cost of business if you choose to self insure. Greater and avoidable costs are avoided by looking at experience, performance, issues etc etc.

Marching senior staff into a building to just be handed a brown envelope whilst management just vanish into thin air. Three months and nothing from any management at all, not a word, hiding cowardly in their corners like the ‘three wise monkeys’. Recently in a pilots newsletter the briefest of an acknowledgement that they have screwed up thousands of lives is all they can do! Disgusting, underhand and totally mishandled.

Getting rid of fit and healthy staff with demonstrated loyalty and ability, whilst ignoring issues that we all know many others have had and are yet still employed is ridiculous.

Knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing seems to be a common failing not only with Emirates but with most airlines in the Middle East.
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 09:20
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come on!!! FC Lyon contract got renewed and we fired the pilots but the most important staff - this exceptionally talented grade 9s and even smarter grade 10s at corporate we retained with 70% of original salaries. We need people to fill up forms, not fly planes, after all we are the biggest grandest of the ME3.....
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 10:01
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EchoKilla, they should attract customers somehow. Marketing plays a major role in persuading those millions of passengers to connect via Dubai. Theres no point in keeping "the most important staff" when no one is buying the tickets...Those "useless" grades 9s and 10s (in your opinion) make much more complicated decisions than to carry extra fuel or not. Every job is important in its own way. But to think that airline is only run by pilots is somewhat delusional...
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 11:05
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Eric Hartman

writing here what they could have Is purely venting frustration but it shows a picture of manners and loyalty in the ME region

EK is definitiv paying less than other companies in the world as the parking lot in DWC is for free - which leaves only mandatory service in the room.
Medical is not an issue - it’s only a cost when you actual use it (main reason why people are laid off) it produces costs on a daily base rather than yearly, what it would be if would be an real insurance- EK is only paying on the occasion not into a policy. That’s why they made so complicated to use it under the umbrella of UCR rates which nobody really can trace.

Accommodation - From the insides with an architect the houses cost only approx. 100kAED per build ready to move in - a news paper wrote EK spent 245mAED to build an employees compound - which was MS - So saying it costs a lot is naturally wrong because it was budgeted years ago and keeping them empty now doesn’t change anything on the mortgage bill said - from this prospective they should have fired everybody consuming the allowance for his own. Having everybody in
MS makes savings of 40000 per fo and 60000 per Captain including that a cover for 30k for water and elec is given to company accommodation
30% Less basic pay of all EK employees (which is 12.xbnAED/year) makes roughly 1.8bnAED according to the yearly report - That is enough to cover all1200 pilots for a year full pay employment with all benefits as it cost only 1 bnAed to have em a year.

so 30% in may would have done a real good job - compared to the cash available
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 11:26
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WB1900, I understand your point but you don't know what their cash position is at the moment and what it was at the beginning of the crisis. All the information we have is from their last year's annual report. We cannot use it now as it is not valid any longer. I am not anti pilot (i am a pilot myself) and I am not defending the company in any way. I am just trying to use some common sense by looking at this situation from their perspective. If they keep everyone on a reduced salary for a year and the market does not pick up next year (it probably won't to any pre 2020 comparable levels) what should they do then? Fire people after keeping them for a year on a reduced salary? How can that be justified? You do not have any real figures or data to base your judgement on, nor do I. They have all the available tools. I am sure they have chosen the most cost effective way. We might not like it but it makes perfect sense for the company. Cost cutting is never a pleasant exercise for employees, I have gone through several redundancies myself so I know what I am talking about. But looking in the past and saying how it all could have been done wont help anybody.
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 11:45
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Interesting how other airlines have managed when they have far worse bottom lines than Emirates, unless the annual figure for the last 35 years are lies.......
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 12:11
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It is clear as the annual report - as long we can trust it
lockdown started mid of March and the report was fired out beginning of April
according to this document EK had a cash balance of 20bnAED - big head line in there - and received at least in September a big bailout of around 7,5bnAED - equals to 27bn
if they burnt the 20bnAED - despite the fact the made revenue, even small, plus no pays in layover, 50% salary and other costs which dropped by the nature of the crisis - than there is something going severely south
as I said - ek spends way less money on parking aircraft than others
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 12:27
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Ah the irony. For years everyone including foreign governments have said that the profits of the ME3 looked dubious at best given the subsidies from owners etc. Now we are trying to say that their cash position is rock solid?

EK is a mirage like everything else in the Desert and there is no way anyone will ever know the true cash position. That being said, no major airline anywhere in the world has said “sure let’s pay all the pilots normal pay in such and uncertain market to keep them all on”. All airlines are offloading staff - whether pilots or anyone. It’s just the reality. As for the way Emirates notified people, was anyone really expecting a one on one meeting and elaborate ceremony/chance to prove your worth?
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 13:16
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BA found a solution so far I know
Austrian, Lufthansa, Swiss and Turkish didn’t

Air France does but 50% out of natural attrition over 3 years
And all of those don’t have the cash strength together like EK has according to the report (how much you can trust it)
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 13:56
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Ultimately the information we go on is the information that Emirates give, you have little choice other than to do that until it is proved wrong. The information they give is that they have had solid profits for 35 years and a good cash balance.

At no stage have I suggested that the company would need to keep everyone on, in fact quite the opposite. They were however the first to make HUGE redundancies and cuts, and the cuts they made were not transparent and based, on the weight of evidence, on pilots with surgery, cancer or pregnancy. Not based on performance or ability.

There were much better ways to handle the situation. Transparency, communication and a management demonstration of leadership and compassion would have been a start. None of this was evident in even the most minuscule manner. ‘We are done with you now Halas.....’
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