FlyTCI

Kangaroo, I DON'T think you get it. I suggest you reread my post again. I know several people who either have worked or are still at PJ, and I don't envy them one bit.

The way I look at it is that if a company like PJ went under other companies who actually know how to run a proper operation would feel enticed to enter the market, grow and as an effect hire pilots. Including those coming from PJ.

I understand it would be hard to give up on the hopes of retaining what's rightfully yours, but wouldn't you think that would have happened by now if there was any chance of it? Repeatedly in this thread it has been mentioned how the crooks behind PJ have gotten away from doing right, despite court orders to pay their employees and so on. What makes you think that will all of a sudden change?

Trust me, I'm not trying to rob the PJ pilots of anything. That is being done enough by their "own" people.

BeCareful

No ALPA mentality at all. But look at the precedent here... PJ lowballs the piss out of everyone fully knowing they're losing money. PJ pilots accept not getting paid and support this abortion of a company by working for free "in hopes PJ will do right by them", please tell me, by not standing up and telling PJ to go f**k themselves if they won't pay you on time and in correct amount, what message are you sending out there to PJ management, and also what kind of a message are you sending to competing companies who try to run a legit business and pay a decent wage?

I'll tell you this - as much sympathy I have for you dealing with the Deebs and their lack of integrity, you are to blame for this because when it's all said and done, you CHOOSE to accept it and fly without getting paid which allows the Deebs to undercut others and turn other operators into dirtbags because now it becomes an 'acceptable' way of doing business. Case in point - Al Jaber Aviation.

Nobody is asking you to fall on your sword, but man, grow a pair and demand to get paid for your work or withhold services until you do. If you want to fly for free, go fly a Cherokee or a Cessna.

Hate to be harsh, but you control a lot more than you think - you're just being a wuss to make difficult decisions.

If they (Deebs) won't do the right thing, whats stopping you?

pinkus

Ummmmmm Be Careful how about you walk a mile in someone elses shoes.....

Prestige owes me a tonne of money. My situation was that they were paying my basic and housing and not my per diems.

I had a loan in the UAE I was paying off and there were absolutely NO jobs in the UAE for me to go to. Even if there had been Prestige would have made problems for me getting an NOC.

I kept going to to Ministry of Labour and Prestige kept ignoring their orders to pay me. So please explain what choice I had.

In the end I was fired for refusing to fly when I found out our insurance was not paid and for asking for an annual leave ticket because I was ill and had to go home for medical treatment.

I have now found a really good job in another country. But until I paid off my loan I used to **** myself every time I flew to the UAE with work.

All I am saying is not everything is black and white. Nobody LIKES not getting paid. Prestige pays every now and then just so people don't leave.People have financial commitments, there are not alot of jobs about at the moment and for the pilots its harder to find jobs if their license is not current.

Alot of the guys there are my friends and are intelligent GOOD people who are in a real bind because of the Deebs. So I don't particularly appreciate your holier than thou attitude. How dare you say they are to blame for the fact that the Deebs are lying evil scum. I suppose women who are beaten by their husbands are to blame if they put up with it too hey.

CDRW

Just a question - has PJ got any connections with the Saudi Oger ( is that how it is spelt) outfit?

freddieclemenza

Amigos,
According to my amigo, Prestige Jet have recently went to the court and communicated they have no money for any employee. They made themselves look to be poor so they do not need to pay. They are taking one 737 for operations. How can the court see no money and stil they take a 737?

KangarooFlyer

Thank you, Pinkus. It's easy to be tough from far away; the further you are from the situation and the negotiating table, the easier it is to be "tough".

The bottom line to the above posts is that these people think that we should cease attempting to make a living and career here, in order that they and other companies can have an easier time in the marketplace.

Like Prestige Jet has anything to do with the demise of Al Jaber? Al Jaber spent two years and millions of dollars on "branding" and advertising and who knows how much on ordering aircraft for which they had no plan, no customers and no use. Or XO Jet, which had a team in Abu Dhabi for two years and did not even apply for an AOC.

Price wars are typical business strategy in most any business, when an interloper enters a new market. If these other aspirants did not consider that there would be a competition for business, that incumbent operators would fight to protect their turf, their customers and their existing business and/or the newcomers did not have customers lined up and adequate financial backing when entering the business, that is on them, not on Prestige Jet and its employees.

By the way, a number of employees left Prestige Jet to go to Al Jaber and then returned to Prestige Jet - what does that tell you? Not necessarily anything positive about Prestige Jet, but certainly nothing good about Al Jaber or the market conditions here.

Did it ever occur to you that none of you have any chance to get paid anything you are owed - court order or not - if the company goes out of business?

I appreciate advice, counsel and support in the current difficult situation, but name-calling and encouragement to do anything which would adversely affect my own situation - of which the commenters know nothing - and my chances of (a) recovering my money and (b) finding suitable employment in a place which is amenable to my family, are disappointing. Especially cheap potshots coming from abroad.

Waste Management

I can understand what KangarooFlyer is saying and offer my support and compassion. Things aren't so easy here anymore - it seems that there are less flying jobs now than there were a year or two ago in both UAE and the region, when there were always new companies cropping up and all kinds of growth - and it is not one pilot's responsibility to take a fall so that some other pilot can be more comfortable at another operator.

I also agree with his analysis of those other operators - they did it to themselves. If they could not compete with Prestige Jet on the basis of service, reliability, integrity and customer relationships, they really ought to look in the mirror.

EX TERMINATOR

While employees continue to suffer and struggle for a way out, and PJ management continues with its illegal, brutal and corrupt practices, authorities remain asleep; or should I say continue to be bought?! This is how a state of lawlessness is allowed to prevail

AEUENG

KF,

Quote: By the way, a number of employees left Prestige Jet to go to Al Jaber and then returned to Prestige Jet - what does that tell you? Not necessarily anything positive about Prestige Jet, but certainly nothing good about Al Jaber or the market conditions here.

I seem to recall only the crazy/angry little spaniard went to Al Jaber, and he left before he was pushed. I don't remember any others of the "number" that you mention. Sounds to me like you have an axe to grind, possibly from being rejected by Al Jaber???

EX TERMINATOR

This immature and unprofessional Human Resource war does exist between operators in the ME/Persian Gulf. This is only expected in this part of the world. However, such practices can never be compared to the corruption, flight safety violations and illegal practices being followed by PJ and imposed on its employees. Still, this takes me back to the point discussed amongst WM, KF and others which statistically, and otherwise, proved that PJ is the worst operator in the region.

KangarooFlyer

No, AEUNG, I have never applied to or had any dealings with Al Jaber, other than knowing former colleagues from elsewhere who work there and meeting others at various industry functions. It's interesting how your only response to a comment about Al Jaber is a defensive accusation.

By the way, is Al Jaber still in business? Where is Dr. Pierotti?

AEUENG

KF,

If my first comment regarding Al Jaber was defensive then it was in response to your slating of a company that you obviously know very little about.

All in all, you have no first hand experience as to what working for Al Jaber is like and are therefore unqualified to pass judgement in my opinion.

They have been flying a lot recently which you should have noticed by their aircraft's absence from Bateen.

The Doctor is still there, so feel free to drop in and say hi to him. You could always tap him up for a job, after all, at least Al Jaber's employees get paid, albeit a few days late each month.

Adios.

KangarooFlyer

Thank you for the hospitable invitation.

BeCareful

Wow..

First of all... Pinkus... who's to say I haven't walked 10 miles in your shoes and wore out the soles??

Second of all... who's to say I don't have a family that's been impacted by scumbags like Deeb Bros?

Third of all... who's to say I'm talking from abroad or that I don't know how things work in the UAE?

Do you have skeletons in your closet that make you unable to leave?

Guys... don't mistake my coming across harsh to not being sympathetic... but stop and think about this.... when Jet Aviation or Signature or some vendor comes to you and tells you that you aren't leaving until they get paid and blocks you with a fuel truck.... ever wonder how come you get to leave in a reasonably short order? Could it be the Jordanian charm or cash with no bullish*t? These people are counting on suckers holding out hope that some day they'll "do the right thing" and take care of their employees. If that was the case..... you wouldn't be in this predicament to begin with, would ya now? Would Faris be buying a 737 if he was struggling to meet payroll? If you'll listen to him... I'm sure you'll be mesmerized.... but stop and think about it. Do a gut check and make a difficult and unpopular decision..... it'll only be unpopular with Faris and the bozos... everyone else understands and knows them...

Good luck.

germanflyer2011

To all of you
Whatever you say might be right.
Fact is only that PJ did a lot of flights recently, and they made a ton of money, they just do not pay you and many others.
Their bank account in Arab Bank in Amman is full of it
Ihsan still lives in Bahrein and Faris still in AUH
Both are travelling in and out
They did discover the Cargo Business, and they continue to con now the
cargo world,do not be miss lead by them,they have money,they just do not pay.They do not give a sh.... about anybody
All the best for everybody

pinkus

Be Careful... Do I have skeletons in my closet that stop me from leaving.

Perhaps if you had done more than skimmed the first line of my post you would have seen the reasons being unable to leave AT THE TIME and the fact that I got out of that place long ago.

Skeletons on my closet. Yes a bank loan and a shortage of jobs in the industry. You have exposed me...... ****

EX TERMINATOR

GF2011,
Welcome to PJ Thread which aims at unveiling the truth about PJ management so that honest people are not conned nor cheated by them.
My two comments relate to your post that whatever has been reported about PJ might be right. All what has been reported is right, believe me. You must have had some experience with them for you to post as above. My 2nd comment relates to the word only as quoted above. I assure you that what you have posted is not the only fact. There are more than 400 posts about PJ which contain numerous facts about this entity and the creatures running it. I am sure you have had the chance to review at least some of them.
Best,
Ex.

crotchrocket

If my first comment regarding Al Jaber was defensive then it was in response to your slating of a company that you obviously know very little about.

All in all, you have no first hand experience as to what working for Al Jaber is like and are therefore unqualified to pass judgement in my opinion.

They have been flying a lot recently which you should have noticed by their aircraft's absence from Bateen.

The Doctor is still there, so feel free to drop in and say hi to him. You could always tap him up for a job, after all, at least Al Jaber's employees get paid, albeit a few days late each month.

With all due respect ,and as with prestige jets, so many people posting negative comments on AJA cant be all wrong. Just because the aircraft are not at Bateen does not mean they are flying (just go to Execujet in Dubai and have a look at their ramp. You will see what I mean).
AJA employees getting paid a few days late?? try 15 - 20 days late!
As for the Dr. There is not an aviation employment agency that does not have him calling every week looking for a job. You know what they say about the rats leaving the ship.

KangarooFlyer

I don't recall anybody making any comments about "what working for Al Jaber is like" in this thread - except for the author of the above statement. Three things were stated:

1. Al Jaber has seemingly spent millions on branding and advertising yet some posters on this forum blame Prestige Jet for Al Jaber's disappointing sales results and suggest that Prestige Jet employees should walk off their jobs in deference to Al Jaber employees. There was a retort to the effect that, if Al Jaber is having difficulty competing with Prestige Jet's reputation and service levels, maybe Al Jaber ought to look inward about what to do differently. Sort of snide, but arguably justified and certainly not anything about "what working for Al Jaber is like."

2. There have been employees (at least the one referred in this thread) who have gone from Prestige Jet to Al Jaber and then eventually returned to Prestige Jet. Nobody said anything other than that this doesn't look good all around: "what does that tell you? Not necessarily anything positive about Prestige Jet, but certainly nothing good about Al Jaber or the market conditions here." Apparently, saying "nothing good about Al Jaber" - along with saying nothing good about Prestige Jet or about the market as a whole - was extrapolated into saying something bad about Al Jaber.

3. As Al Jaber allegedly had what has later been described as a one-day bankruptcy, sackings and re-hiring - reportedly including Mark Pierotti - the question was asked if they are operating and where is Dr. Pierotti? Seems like a fair question, in light of such reports.

The only person who posted anything about "what working for Al Jaber is like" in this thread is the one who, ironically, is accusing others of "slating" the company. This person, in his zeal to defend Al Jaber, posted a pejorative comment about Al Jaber's payment history which was then picked up and contested by the above posting by crotchrocket.

For my part, I expressed my appreciation in response to being invited to go see Al Jaber. I would hope that this thread returns to dealing with the issues surrounding Prestige Jet, namely paying employees promptly and in full, honoring court orders to pay former employees holding valid judgments, and compliance with safety regulations.

EX TERMINATOR

KF,
I second your opinion as I have the same hope for posters to return to the original course. On issues surrounding PJ, I may add one more which is: continuing to pursue somebdoy decent and clean enough within the authorities to see and bring to an end the corrupt and evil practices of PJ. Enough families have already suffered as a result.