All GF B767's indefinitely grounded!!!!!!
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h73kr.. people speculate as to the cause of the corrosion not being detected at an earlier stage, corrosion is a slow on going process, and it will be interesting to see how it advanced undetected to this point..possibly it occurred in an area not normally susceptable to corrosion, or was accelerated by the harsh environment in which we operate the aircraft..(The Gulf is the 3rd most saline body of water in the world) and since no real details have emerged at this juncture, speculation runs rampant...a natural occurrence...after all it IS a rumour network, and rumours tend to spread when facts are not known...as the facts emerge in due time, the rumours will fade..and yes they can sometimes be annoying I'll agree with you there..at least positive steps were taken to ensure crew and pax safety, and continuing airworthiness of our fleet
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agreed Ironb., rumour and conjecture is fine, unless it's stated as fact of course, and is completely wrong! As for the cause of the corrosion, in my opinion, no way was saline a factor, nuff said. 
"..at least positive steps were taken to ensure crew and pax safety, and continuing airworthiness of our fleet" .....agree 100%. It's a positive thing, not a negative!
"..at least positive steps were taken to ensure crew and pax safety, and continuing airworthiness of our fleet
" .....agree 100%. It's a positive thing, not a negative!
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well, you know guys the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Iīve flown for companies were one have to wait up to 3 month to get your salary due to finantial problems. Here at GF we havenīt seen that situation yet and honestly, donīt think weīll get there. Every airline in the world faces maintenance problems everyday but the good thing is that at least, GF is doing everything in his power to overcome this situation. Obviously, the ideal would have been not allowing the airplanes to reach that state but, this is what we have now and there is no point blaming or winning about this situation. About the salary package, well, think there always will be companies giving better salaries and benefits to their employees so itīs our choice to stay here or rush into EK or Emirates; Iīm pretty sure that we all are aware that all this companies are desperately looking for pilots so why donīt apply if you are so uncomfortable in GF? Cheers
Cheers
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with EY F/O's making a 2450BHD base pay now, that's an awfully tempting option actually.....let's see what summer brings, in the meantime i'm trying to find some more of that suntan lotion for my poor balding head that dosen't seem to like days out in the sun at Jarada as much as i do
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Tbay - actually it was the lack of lotion and the copious quantity of alcohol that caused the 'head burn'
Mine seems ok - mind you I am not quite as bald!!!!!!!
EY makes 2450/month PLUS they don't spend 290 additional each month for housing PLUS they don't have to add another 150/month in savings per kid in school (more if your kids are over about 10 years of age). You look at those numbers and they come away 1240 BD MORE a month than we do at GF.
Factor in a retirement plan etc and it is almost impossible NOT to move. These claims that DXB is super expensive don't cut it. Comparing it to Bahrain and I see only some minor differences. Hell with that pay difference who cares if you spend 100bd more a month you still come out ahead.
THIS is why pilots are leaving GF. Not out of spite but out of simple economics. The other carriers have made significant increases over the years while GF has done almost nothing. So people leave.
Take into account that your wife has her own visa which entitles her to work and you quickly see how a family is better off.
I like GF and I like the fact that it is small and that you get to know most people. But unless they match or come close to the other regional carriers then I and many others will be forced, literally, to move.
Mine seems ok - mind you I am not quite as bald!!!!!!!EY makes 2450/month PLUS they don't spend 290 additional each month for housing PLUS they don't have to add another 150/month in savings per kid in school (more if your kids are over about 10 years of age). You look at those numbers and they come away 1240 BD MORE a month than we do at GF.
Factor in a retirement plan etc and it is almost impossible NOT to move. These claims that DXB is super expensive don't cut it. Comparing it to Bahrain and I see only some minor differences. Hell with that pay difference who cares if you spend 100bd more a month you still come out ahead.
THIS is why pilots are leaving GF. Not out of spite but out of simple economics. The other carriers have made significant increases over the years while GF has done almost nothing. So people leave.
Take into account that your wife has her own visa which entitles her to work and you quickly see how a family is better off.
I like GF and I like the fact that it is small and that you get to know most people. But unless they match or come close to the other regional carriers then I and many others will be forced, literally, to move.
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With all the noise and the hoohahs in GF, I think she will rise from the ashes like the phoenix as she is now looking at nothing but promising times ahead. All the turmoil (so it seems) only serves to strengthen her in her forward progression. I believe GF has already reached rock bottom and the only possible way is up with the support of her two sponsors (whoever they are). So please, all you whiners, cynics, freeloaders, moaners, dooms day prophets, be my guest and leave as the most of us who prefer to stay might want to witness the rise of GF to her former glory. You are welcome to stay of course but please, do not bite the hand that's feeding you.
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Sale- not to sound like a downer but what are u thinking? past glory? hate to be the one that tells yah but there will never be a single airline in the gulf region again and i can assure you what gulf air is not going to transform into this wonderfully well run unit you seem to think or better 'dream' of. i agree those who want to stay should be optimistic we can only get better but mate please be realistic "yanni" this airline will always be a tad slow to change and behind the curver compared to our western counterparts
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Well, not sure what is meant by former glory, since times and the airline industry itself have changed so much. Nor am I sure that it will eclipse the likes of Emirates or Qatar airways in terms of fleet size or destinations served. Nor am I certain that any of that is actually all that meaningful.
Instead I would be more pleased with a well run, efficient, profitable and self-sustainable airline. I help we don't join the regional equivalent of the nuclear arms race of the past decade, where each airline builds massive fleets without the payload or market share to justify it, or go for the big-airplane syndrome, where we only want to have widebodies because everybody else has widebodies.
Being well run and self sustainable is our best bet for good pay, and an employer to whom one wants to dedicate their career. I think that every single employee plays a role in reaching that goal, however, one important element is missing, and that is clear leadership-- at least for the next few weeks.
So I wait anxiously to see what André Dosé brings to the table on April 1st.
Instead I would be more pleased with a well run, efficient, profitable and self-sustainable airline. I help we don't join the regional equivalent of the nuclear arms race of the past decade, where each airline builds massive fleets without the payload or market share to justify it, or go for the big-airplane syndrome, where we only want to have widebodies because everybody else has widebodies.
Being well run and self sustainable is our best bet for good pay, and an employer to whom one wants to dedicate their career. I think that every single employee plays a role in reaching that goal, however, one important element is missing, and that is clear leadership-- at least for the next few weeks.
So I wait anxiously to see what André Dosé brings to the table on April 1st.
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you are only a number
Sal-e
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"With all the noise and the hoohahs in GF, I think she will rise from the ashes like the phoenix"
Dear Albus Dumbledore,
Forgive me for saying this but dont you think you have taken this a bit too far, I think you make GF sound like the new Harry potter move Harry Potter and The Order Of The Phoenix. and you sound like J.K.Rowling.
Any Airline go through this type of Drama in one form or another, this is not really a big deal..is it? In the same time you have to allow the people concerned or affected by the grounding to moan & whinge, It is called human factor.Also, this does not mean as you put it "do not bite the hand that's feeding you" biting the hand that's feed them. They are not animals, in fact It is credit to those people that GF and other Airlines that has grown to were they are now.Just because people criticised their company it does not mean they are not loyal. I think the people that criticised the system and make the right voices are the one that care very much. Bottom line what keeps the airline airborne and profitable are the pax, and the pax could not careless whether if it B767 or A300 they flying with or not. and as long as the price is right, people will fly. In my opinion you are only a number no mater which company you work for and for howlong. Also in my opinion you owe those pepole an apology.
regards
Rubeus Hagrid
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Wish i was as optomistic as you Sal-e. I have no doubt that GF will pull through this, mostly because it would really hurt Bahrains economy, employment, and last but not least, their national ego if it went under.
I would be really suprised if it ever makes much money without major changes that frankly, they just aren't willing to make. For too long it was the only show in town, and all the ones who could skimmed a little here and there, employed 5 times as many people in the office as necessary, huge inefficencies in all aspects of the operation etc etc.
Today little has changed, and i don't think that upper management has either the will or the means to sort it out. As an expat contract employee all that dosen't mean much to me (god knows i have to really try sometimes, but i try not to let if bother me). If they want to run a bloated, ineficient airline that will struggle to ever to make money then that's fine with me. In order to keep us expats coming and flying over here we need a competitive package. As long as GF provides that we will come and stay. When they no longer do that we will leave. Sure you can hire new people, eventually that costs you alot of money and the experienced pilots become harder to find for what you are paying.
At the end of the day it's the lifestyle that they can offer that keeps us around. Future potential dosen't put any money in my retirement plan, and not too many of us are willing to sit around drinking the Falcon koolaid hoping that someday it will be the glory airline of the ME again. The broom you need to make that happen would sweep much too wide a swath i think.
Here's hoping they get the parts right that need to be sorted, and soonish.
I would be really suprised if it ever makes much money without major changes that frankly, they just aren't willing to make. For too long it was the only show in town, and all the ones who could skimmed a little here and there, employed 5 times as many people in the office as necessary, huge inefficencies in all aspects of the operation etc etc.
Today little has changed, and i don't think that upper management has either the will or the means to sort it out. As an expat contract employee all that dosen't mean much to me (god knows i have to really try sometimes, but i try not to let if bother me). If they want to run a bloated, ineficient airline that will struggle to ever to make money then that's fine with me. In order to keep us expats coming and flying over here we need a competitive package. As long as GF provides that we will come and stay. When they no longer do that we will leave. Sure you can hire new people, eventually that costs you alot of money and the experienced pilots become harder to find for what you are paying.
At the end of the day it's the lifestyle that they can offer that keeps us around. Future potential dosen't put any money in my retirement plan, and not too many of us are willing to sit around drinking the Falcon koolaid hoping that someday it will be the glory airline of the ME again. The broom you need to make that happen would sweep much too wide a swath i think.
Here's hoping they get the parts right that need to be sorted, and soonish.
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to cg11
CG11: All i can say is... i don't understand what the .... you are saying.
I recognize some English words but they don't seem to create something coherent.
That's why reading Ray Darr's post was such a welcome treat. It's like turning the light on while you were trying to read a good book in the dark. Well, it's not saying cg11's post is good... So i guess i should revise that last sentence... It's like turning the light on while trying to read a book in the dark.
correct me if I'm wrong but I've worked with quite a number of different people from different nationalities & backgrounds & mother tongues but i still have to fly(or talk) with someone as incoherent & incomprehensible as cg11.
I don't know, maybe it's just me...or i was just lost in translation.
Interpreters, anyone?
I recognize some English words but they don't seem to create something coherent.
That's why reading Ray Darr's post was such a welcome treat. It's like turning the light on while you were trying to read a good book in the dark. Well, it's not saying cg11's post is good... So i guess i should revise that last sentence... It's like turning the light on while trying to read a book in the dark.
correct me if I'm wrong but I've worked with quite a number of different people from different nationalities & backgrounds & mother tongues but i still have to fly(or talk) with someone as incoherent & incomprehensible as cg11.
I don't know, maybe it's just me...or i was just lost in translation.
Interpreters, anyone?
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Give us pax MORE credit
Sinbad, I have to disagree. I do not fly solely based on price as work pays for my trips in most cases. Furthermore, I DO CARE, as do many premium pax I know, what type of ac we fly on. I REFUSE to fly the GF 767 and did so prior to this incident as the J class was nothing short of a joke in is disgusting outdated, non-functioning state. Even the A330's are now showing age and unmaintained very worn J and F seats.
GF needs to remember WE pay your salary and as such you guys should take pride in being able to transport your pax in a decent cabin or does ur concern end on your side of the cockpit door? I really hate to stoop to such a level but please do realize while we may only count a step or two higher than the cargo you may carry but we do have opinions and often understand aviation at a level that may just surprise alot of aviation professionals. I do not blindly get on a plane and see it as a big or small one. I am aware at all times from making the reservation EXACTLY what type of ac I'm traveling on.
ODY
GF needs to remember WE pay your salary and as such you guys should take pride in being able to transport your pax in a decent cabin or does ur concern end on your side of the cockpit door? I really hate to stoop to such a level but please do realize while we may only count a step or two higher than the cargo you may carry but we do have opinions and often understand aviation at a level that may just surprise alot of aviation professionals. I do not blindly get on a plane and see it as a big or small one. I am aware at all times from making the reservation EXACTLY what type of ac I'm traveling on.
ODY
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Exactly Odmea - I agree. Passengers now days DO have a choice and are acutely aware of the equipment being used. Price is no longer sole motivation for choice of carrier, its a whole bunch of factors including value, fleet, connections, time and service.
Consider (rather appropriately) having to travel to VGZR (Dhaka). A 30 year old dc10/a300 or a 3 month old 773?? Hmmm? The "Amistad Syndrome" of labour placement agencies trying to move thousands of workers to the ME is a separate issue, but many people from Europe/States etc travel via the ME to the FE and the Antipodes, and they are exceptionally aware of the carrier and its equipment that they have chosen.
Passengers (SLF) do pay the bills and GF needs to drag themselves up to par, they no longer have the captive market of yesteryear, its dog eat dog.
Consider (rather appropriately) having to travel to VGZR (Dhaka). A 30 year old dc10/a300 or a 3 month old 773?? Hmmm? The "Amistad Syndrome" of labour placement agencies trying to move thousands of workers to the ME is a separate issue, but many people from Europe/States etc travel via the ME to the FE and the Antipodes, and they are exceptionally aware of the carrier and its equipment that they have chosen.
Passengers (SLF) do pay the bills and GF needs to drag themselves up to par, they no longer have the captive market of yesteryear, its dog eat dog.
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Be Realistic
ODMEA
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"Sinbad, I have to disagree. I do not fly solely based on price as work pays for my trips in most cases. Furthermore, I DO CARE, as do many premium pax I know, what type of ac we fly on"
I was not referring to you as being a pax or some of your premium pax. I always travelled 1st or Bus depend how my company valuate me, but I was referring to the average pax that's just wants to go from A to B specially in the ME and the Asian region. If you take the most money making sectors .i.e the Asian sector is always full, but if you referring to Bus Class or other class that is completely different ball game. But we are not discussing Cabin Class configuration here are we?? I do not think it is right for some people in any company should have the right to think that they are doing you a favour by employing you and hand feed you. You and I and other people are there because of our expertise no more no less.
ODMEA
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"I REFUSE to fly the GF 767 and did so prior to this incident as the J class was nothing short of a joke in is disgusting outdated, non-functioning state. Even the A330's are now showing age and unmaintained very worn J and F seats"
Cabin appearance is always priority number 1 in any Airline operation whether it is a low cost or other wise. It is always the captain discretion to accept or refuse the aircraft , this is stated in the MEL.Cabin appearance is purely Airline engineering issue as well as cabin crew issue as they the one should be writing it in the cabin log as a defect and from then on it is up to MOC or MCC to follow up. additionally, after any check the cabin should have been inspected before it is released back to service is it not? what does the engineering crew does during a daily or weekly??? I wonder!!
ODMEA
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" I do not blindly get on a plane and see it as a big or small one. I am aware at all times from making the reservation EXACTLY what type of ac I'm travelling on"
You must remember not every one is as educated as you are when it comes to air travel, Most of my friend are surgeons, PhD and teachers would not know Boeing from an airbus if they fell on it.They have enough trouble operating the IFE hand set let alone choose an aircraft.
Point8four
Qoute
"Exactly Odmea - I agree. Passengers now days DO have a choice and are acutely aware of the equipment being used. Price is no longer sole motivation for choice of carrier, its a whole bunch of factors including value, fleet, connections, time and service.
How many pax do you actually come across when they go to their travel agents and say " could you please tell me what type of an aircraft do you have on your menu so I can choose, is it a Boeing 737 NG with winglet or is it the classic 747 with JD9"??? come on be realistic. I totally agree with regards to the pax from Europe are exceptionally aware of the carrier but not its equipments, How could they this is beyond there control.
In my experience what keep a customers loyal to that particular airline is the Cabin appearance which always give very pleasant feed back, The cabin crew mannerism and of course the meal on board not to mention the price. Look at AA aircraft in Sharjah they are not the best in appearance but their flight always almost full. I wonder why??
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Sinbad,
Check my post again, choice is made via a combination of factors. I said pax are aware of the equipment being flown, not that they request a specific type mate. Their decisions are made using various criteria especially for the more discerning premium pax.
I know for a fact people will recognise an old aircraft(in/exterior) off the bat. With all the media attention centred on air travel these days, it has helped the general public make more informed decisions with regard to both choice of carrier and travel arrangements - and that goes from a-z, from meals to schedules.
If you want passengers, offer them value and service, we can't rely on the old "if you wanna get there you have to go with us" mentality.
Check my post again, choice is made via a combination of factors. I said pax are aware of the equipment being flown, not that they request a specific type mate. Their decisions are made using various criteria especially for the more discerning premium pax.
I know for a fact people will recognise an old aircraft(in/exterior) off the bat. With all the media attention centred on air travel these days, it has helped the general public make more informed decisions with regard to both choice of carrier and travel arrangements - and that goes from a-z, from meals to schedules.
If you want passengers, offer them value and service, we can't rely on the old "if you wanna get there you have to go with us" mentality.
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Read the post carefully Mate
point8four
This is part of your post which I commented on;
Exactly Odmea - I agree. Passengers now days DO have a choice and are acutely aware of the equipment being used. Price is no longer sole motivation for choice of carrier, its a whole bunch of factors including value, fleet, connections, time and service.
Consider (rather appropriately) having to travel to VGZR (Dhaka). A 30 year old dc10/a300 or a 3 month old 773?? Hmmm?
This my part of my post which is in partial agreement with regards to the other point you mentioned;
I totally agree with regards to the pax from Europe are exceptionally aware of the carrier but not its equipments, How could they this is beyond there control.
I suggest you read both post...MATE
Last edited by Sinbad1; 14th Mar 2007 at 13:59.
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ODMEA - the problem of the cabin appearance is a BIG one especially on teh 767. I have a few friends who have travelled on business and GF has replaced the ac with a 767 MUCH to their dismay. They now travel any other airline given the choice.
The 330īs have relatively new cabins and already they are seeing the wear. Almost everytime we park off gate they bring one set of stairs to the L1 one door. This means that 200 plus pax get off while trudging through first class. As they do the stop and go they rest their bags on the leather uppers of the seats. Just look at those seats today. Then they send a memo to cabin crew saying that they should be careful while in first class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then they do an India or Pakistan flight, which is oversold, and fill up first and biy class with whoever they can - and I hate to say it but the 'class' of pax makes a difference.
Finally, their is NO maintenance of the fleet. There was a 330 recently with a missing overhead bin door in first class!!!!! GF needs to wake up.
I don't think I have been to a party or dinner in the last 2 years where someone, upon learning that I work at GF, has not said that the no longer fly GF. There is a lot of choice these days.
The 330īs have relatively new cabins and already they are seeing the wear. Almost everytime we park off gate they bring one set of stairs to the L1 one door. This means that 200 plus pax get off while trudging through first class. As they do the stop and go they rest their bags on the leather uppers of the seats. Just look at those seats today. Then they send a memo to cabin crew saying that they should be careful while in first class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then they do an India or Pakistan flight, which is oversold, and fill up first and biy class with whoever they can - and I hate to say it but the 'class' of pax makes a difference.
Finally, their is NO maintenance of the fleet. There was a 330 recently with a missing overhead bin door in first class!!!!! GF needs to wake up.
I don't think I have been to a party or dinner in the last 2 years where someone, upon learning that I work at GF, has not said that the no longer fly GF. There is a lot of choice these days.
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GF not idle
quoting from the gdn dated 13th march, meeting of the 95th international airlines technical pool (iatp) convention........
"the three-day event is being attended by more than 400 delegates representing global aviation and related industries, including aircraft manufacturers airbus and boeing.
mr al hammadi said gulf air needed to replace nine of its aircraft with new boeing 747s, as well as order an additional 25 aircraft-either boeing or airbuses."
guys, does this look like and airline that is going to sit idly by and rot while the others in the region are developing fast? i think not.
i agree with Sal-e somewhat and am tending towards optimism. meanwhile, i wait patiently as long as i'm getting paid.
"the three-day event is being attended by more than 400 delegates representing global aviation and related industries, including aircraft manufacturers airbus and boeing.
mr al hammadi said gulf air needed to replace nine of its aircraft with new boeing 747s, as well as order an additional 25 aircraft-either boeing or airbuses."
guys, does this look like and airline that is going to sit idly by and rot while the others in the region are developing fast? i think not.
i agree with Sal-e somewhat and am tending towards optimism. meanwhile, i wait patiently as long as i'm getting paid.
Last edited by brassplate; 7th Feb 2008 at 13:50.