All GF B767's indefinitely grounded!!!!!!

[CG11]

well i am not worried about GF but i am worried about the people down their who are working with this company and they have a families and they came from other countries or even locals they will be affected . am i right ,
yes i will leave and thanks to GF because they gave me the rating for free.
if you saw this company worse than this satuation well good for you then you saw people been kicked out ( this is the right word to be use) and they had families and who was CEO he was bahraini am i right

i have nothing to worry about Mr. for me at the end of the day will go home but i need 5 years . i am honest , but SOME of locals they are using skills to talk to the higher people than them because they think they may be fired . 767 it is maybe a big issue because i never saw such a currabtion in my entire life . nether in Europe or Canada . with my respect to you and all locals

Enjoy staying in GF and let see when you guys transfering your PAX to other airline and they see good service they will change their mind and go to other airline ENJOY GF and GOOD LUCK GF

[sheryas777]

reporting

This is latest news announced today,,you may report the case to this person,
Qoute

Mahmood Hashem Al Kooheji the Deputy Chief Executive Officer of Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company (Mumtalakat) has been appointed as Deputy Chairman of the Gulf Air Board of Directors.

In addition, Jawad Habib Jawad has been appointed as a new member of the board. The board also includes two other members from Bahrain, Khalid Omar Al Rumaihi and Michael Wette representing the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Co. Gulf Air Board of Directors consists of eight members split equally between the Sultanate of Oman and the Kingdom of Bahrain.
Unqoue
TT

[Sinbad1]

Who's Responsible??????????????

Some of you might know this very well and some of you might not.
When an aircraft comes to the hangar especially for a heavy check, the first thing the operator tells the maintenance organisation and the hangar chief to his engineers "We need to get this out (airplane) as quickly as possible". Or when the aircraft is on the line "we do not want to have a delay". Pressure from day one. It is not only operators but MROs, engineers and quality assurance department are all guilty. The system relies on each other. Ultimately the decision lies on how much b lls does the supervisor engineer have to not cave in to the pressure. After decades in this industry I don't get pushed easily and I don't hesitate in grounding an aircraft when ever I think it is appropriate to do so. I sleep very well every night. We can all set a standard or not. It is our choice to do the right thing by the operators and the passengers no matter what position we hold. The Civil Aviation Auth are the biggest hypocrites of all. They come up with all fancy courses such as Human factor and so forth but in reality they overlook if the flight crew scheduling is in compliance with the human factor acceptable level or not, or whether the engineering staff are actually sufficient to maintain the amount of aircraft they are handling. The only time the CAA take note when there is smoke at the end of the runway.
My question is, how was this corrosion found this time?? What is the period between the corrosion discovery and the last C check?? Was it known before?? and what actions have been taken to rectify it?? Was the repair, if any, carried out as per Boeing SRM or the corrosion cleaned up as per the Boeing CPCP program? or any other Structural Dev Engineer recommendation?? If the extent of the corrosion is way beyond the limit a few months back, who made the decision to release the aircraft and sign the CRS?? If I was in Quality of GF or the CAA, I assure you heads would roll. My advice to GF engineering, quality assurance dept and airline management (ops) is to sit down and work out serious auditing procedures in the hangar as well as constant surveillance during the hangar check. If the aircraft has gone for C check abroad, then the liaison engineer that accompanied the aircraft abroad should have his bu tt kicked if he knew anything about this. He may not realise it, but he cost a lot of people their jobs and the airline a lot of losses.I do not have to work for GF to care about this issue.This is serious because I or my family, or my friends would use GF to fly in the future.

Please please please stop arguing and taunting each other and go back to the 767.

[LOC GREEN]

well i am not worried about GF but i am worried about the people down their who are working with this company and they have a families and they came from other countries or even locals they will be affected . am i right

CG11,
Thanks for your concerns, but GF don't hire people to fire them… this paranoia that you have probably the reason why you have these negative thoughts and the reason why you are leaving GF.... anyway good luck to you and hope you get better soon and this does not cause you a problem with your new job!!!

Regards,

LG

[CG11]

you saw people been kicked out ( this is the right word to be use) and they had families and who was CEO he was bahraini am i right


i wote this as well,

i want to make sure about this thing as well and i am waiting for your reply LOC GREN,

well for me i think 767 issue is big and they should investigate am i right ,

hope all 767 pilots get an allowance , well it will not go to my packet the money , for me i can not live with my basic salary cause i am paying loans , as well may be few of 767 pilots paying loans , and this issue stopping them from making money.

see guys . will fly for few days

[LOC GREEN]

you saw people been kicked out ( this is the right word to be use) and they had families and who was CEO he was bahraini am i right

CG11,
Stop hanging around with cabin crew... Yes that's true... all of them were cabin crew with bad records (probably you were not here at that time!!!) NO PILOTS been kicked out... Listen GF don't trap anybody, those trapped themselves... A piece of advice, keep a low profile and you won't get hurt (That's in any airline!!!)

Regarding the guys on 767... I don't want to be in their shoe... it is hard and those who are responsible for this mess has to be punished... we've been hearing stories about 767 corrosion sense last year but was never announced officially till all 767's got grounded!!! That mean the problem was there but somehow people in charge (whoever they are) managed to get away with it for a year!!

[Desert Diner]

This thread has gotten the boys and girls to "litteraly" start playing in the sandbox.

CG11, the work you are looking for is "redundant".

Were you old enough to remember 1995 and the Tri-Stars?

[Sinbad1]

It Is All Over

Well, I am glad the bouts are over. lets dust our selves and have new start.

Any more news on the grounded fleet??

[ironbutt57]

Thanks sinbad two informative posts inspections on remaining aircraft are reportedly in progress some are in/on the way to various MRO facilities and as the results become available, sure the info will come out..been tracking things on aims but dont think all the planes have been inspected yet...but the wood on the "bonfire vigil" is reportedly still burning..

[boiler]

Mahmood Hashem Al Kooheji the Deputy Chief Executive Officer of Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company (Mumtalakat) has been appointed as Deputy Chairman of the Gulf Air Board of Directors.

I know this guy. The biggest idiot that ever lived. No experience in airline industry whatsoever. How is it that the board of an airline consists of people with no airline experience is beyond me. If there is anybody that will bring GF to the ground, it is this guy. If you think things will get better, you are sadly mistaken.

[tbaylx]

It's amazing what supposedly proffesional pilots can degenerate a thread into here...
Alarmist attitudes aside, yes the corrosion likely should have been detected earlier, or was and was not dealt with correctly, however SR technics is now runing the show and has dealt with the issue appropriately.
The 767's are not an unsafe aircrfaft, and will likely be some of the best maintained in the fleet after coming out of these checks. In the meantime the 767 crew can catch upon their sleep and collect a paycheque while staying at home, not a bad deal. Yeah we lose 4-500 bd a month in allowances by not flying, but i'm not doing any work either, so it's fair enough i suppose.
The complete lack ofcoomunicaton and management has been the same for quite awhile, so no big suprises their. Maybe when Mr. Dosse arrives he'll be able to improve that side of it over the summer months.
In the meantime relax, let them fix the A/C up, and enjoy your time off. Your job will still be there at the end of the month if you still want it.
Not all of us want to come over and fly the Airbus. I'm quite happy on the Boeing and really have no interest in moving fleets at all, don't assume we all are wanting to bump senior 320 guys to get into that fleet.
Now....where was that beer and BBQ i had going..

[LOC GREEN]

Ok guys, the first A/C coming back from DUB on the 18th of this month from DUB, operated by CP767 (already published on AIMS)...

[Sinbad1]

Gulf Air, new appointments

• [*]

for more importent issues;
As for the B767 saga, I actually feel quite bad for those people that are directly or indirectly affected by this drama Pilot or otherwise, I mean the expat. Specially those with kids, schooling and so forth. I do not actually work for GF but I know what they must be going through, Management and staff. I returned from a gulf state almost close to the Kingdom of Bahrain not long ago, I also flew with some of the B767 pilots and Airbus aircraft in that region. I could suggest to the Pilots who are worried or they may or may not be affected by this terrible situation is to make preliminary Enquire with some of the EY crew if you know any or directly with the airline on the conditions and benefits of EY. I am sure some you also know your old boss HOGGE. indicently they have B 767 on their fleet which is almost new and it is only done approx 8500 hours. It used to belong to the Royal fleet. Also you may discuss the possibility of conversion on the B777 during the interview. My experience from listening to the EY flight crew they were overall happy with the usuall occational whinge, also the fleet is almost new. my experience is there is always something is not right not matter where you go.
I hope this will help. Remember, loyalty goes both ways.
EY current vacancy if it is help www.etihadairways.com
Currently there are 2 jobs* Click Job Title to view details

Captain A330/A340 [CAPT]Department:Flight OperationsLocation:Abu DhabiExpiry Date:31/12/2007First Officer A330/A340 [FOA]Department:Flight OperationsLocation:Abu DhabiExpiry Date:31/12/2007

[Bombay HF]

I believe that Hogan has banned Gulf Air pilots from joining EY though.

[tbaylx]

Don't feel bad for us 767 pilots, we still get our housing/schooling allowances and full pay. The only thing we lose out on is the months perdiems/duty allowances. It's not a bad thing to be able to spend a few weeks at home with the family during normal human hours and not flying all night, all the while getting paid. You won't hear me complaining at all. So if you want to feel sorry for us, by all means do so...i just don't think you'll find too many of the Boeing guys crying about it. As for the rest of the poor pilots who's rosters are going to get severely messed up this month, you have my sympathy. I'll have an extra cold one for you while you enjoy my Dhaka overnights Cheers.

[left_to_first_class]

Finally a Message from the Big Boss (acting)

Dear Colleague,

You may well have read in the newspapers that we have ordered an immediate and thorough check on our B767 fleet, following the detection of minute traces of possible corrosion in an area beneath the rear galley of one aircraft.

There is no denying that this will have a major impact on our operations and we have strived to be transparent with passengers and the wider public through mediums such as the Press so as to keep them abreast of developments. We now need your assistance in ensuring that further communication with our publics is handled in a professional and controlled manner and furthermore it is important we all work hard to overcome what will be a tough few weeks operationally.

It is imperative to keep things in perspective. While the planes are inoperative they have not been grounded, which is a post crisis response. This is very much a pre-emptive action and as you know we take every precaution to safeguard our passengers and aircraft.

Words like corrosion can be easily misconstrued. These were only minute traces discovered. Checks have already commenced on the other aircraft. In fact the maintenance teams who have been hard at work over the last few days, have already indicated that we should be able to re-introduce several aircraft within the next week.

I would reiterate our findings came during a routine inspection of a B767 and did not pose any immediate risk to the operation of the aircraft. As you are aware we are proud to be operating to the highest safety standards, as defined by the IATA Operational Safety Audit (IOSA) and this wasn’t an action forced upon us by any outside influence, it was our decision as we take safety very, very seriously.

Let’s all endeavour to communicate the facts accurately, in order to counteract any negative misperceptions. Let’s be proud that we have put safety above all else and do our utmost to accommodate and assist those passengers whose travel plans have been disrupted to ensure we maintain the good name of Gulf Air.

Warm regards

Ahmed Al Hammadi


Now is this PR or what .... ?
Questions:
1/ Why has it taken nearly a week to send this note out
2/ What is wrong with the aircraft in DUB that has been there since Nov06
3/ If not grounded, then why is it that all the B767 were effected
4/ Is it true IATA certificate due to expire in May07

Again, looks like no one is to blame and everything is all ok ...... Good Luck GF.

[point8four]

Ok - so where did this note spring from? I've heard with enough manure you can grow anything, anywhere anytime. Sniff Sniff anyone?????
I heard via the via that we ain't gonna see action 'till end March? Anyone heard similar?

Extra frosties till then. Takes my leave up to 81 days this year.... that's actually a breach of my contract... does anyone have the CP's home number???

[Herbsnspices]

Message from the boss (Quick entry, stage right!)

Ladies and Gentlemen, (If any of you are left to pretend to this title!)

My saying is better late than never, and well done for the acting PCE to come out and explain himself and GF position in relation to this crisis.

Now some of you may complain, guess that is what comfy coushy numbers do to you, the company is running, albeit with less capacity, but still running. If anything, you should be happy the job is still there and instead of moan, suggest what can be done to temporarily alleviate the problem. It is terribly easy to complain, a little more difficult though to act.

In addition, and to those of you who are unhappy, I suggest you go do the hours at EY, with their lovely XPCE present Chairman, to give you the stick like he did in the past and with the known results, some simply choose to forget....

Then I must add, better safe than sorry, and my thanks to those who are always keeping their head up in the midst of all the controversy, and saying what has to be said about GF! The spirit lives on!

[tbaylx]

Well it's a rosy view of the situation, and about a week too late, but better than nothing i suppose.

Minute traces of corrosion do not prevent aircraft from being signed out of a "c" check. So the corrosion is serious enough to warrant structural repair and a furhter unscheduled maintenance inspection taking 1/3 rd of the entire Gulf Air fleet out of operation. So i'd not describe that as minor. I doubt the tail of the aircraft was about to fall off either though.

"Gounded" technically means that DGCAM ordered the aircraft to stop flying while in this case Gulf Air voluntarily withdrew the aircraft from service for the inspections, no doubt at the strong advice from SR Technics.

As far as i know the aircraft that was in Dublin since Nov. '06 is undergoing a C check (which shouldn't normally take more than a week depending on the AMO). During that inspection they found corrosion that required a strucutral repair, and no doubt other maintenance as well. Why it has taken so long to fix is a question i don't know the answer to.

According to rostering between the 14th and 21st we should see the first aircraft come back and then the others slowly trickle in bit by bit 9subject to change with no prior notice of course). I would expect a limited amount of flying in the last week or two of March, gradually increasing back to normal levels during april. On that note if you have outstanding leave you want to take, pretty sure you won't have a problem getting it in March if you're a boeing driver.

that's the plan for today, stand byfor the new one tomorrow

[Sinbad1]

Come out clean GF

Quote by the Boss " we have ordered an immediate and thorough check on our B767 fleet, following the detection of minute traces of possible corrosion in an area beneath the rear galley of one aircraft."

What a lot of baloney. (Or as the Americans would say - go and tell it to the marines.) The rear galley and the water/waste system as you see from the drawing below is very close to the Rear Bulk Head and the rear principle structure. It is a major pressurised divider. Corrosion under the toilets and galleys structures is very common. "Minute traces" of corrosion do not ground an aircraft. If this corrosion is just under the wet area then it is not a big deal. But if corrosion has spread beyond the floor structure and spread to the rear frames close to the bulkhead or the area very close to the bulk head then God help you. The repairer will be looking at quite some time before they can get this aircraft back to normal.

The area close to the rear galley is the pressurised bulkhead. Repairs to that area require specialist structural engineering work. For those who go back long enough, remember the Japanese 747 classic which crashed shortly after take off which was due to Boeing mis-calculation on the repair of the rear pressure bulkhead.

What I would like to ask is how an earth could this have possibly been missed during the last C check???? This could only happen if things were signed assuming to be OK. (The "dirty Dozen" rule: I looked there 1000 times and I didn't find anything before".)

I think it is a good thing this is happened to GF and should make them more careful in the future.This will certainly be an eye opener for the future in the way they conduct and supervise their C checks. Lesson for all. Also for the management to come clean and brief their staff and put their worries to bed once and for all.