DEC's at EK
Join Date: Nov 2005
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EK: New DEC Contract
Latest news from the DEC applicants is that TCAS is offering a 38000 Dhm contract for DECs from selected airlines. Apparently the new contract also includes basing provisions, as long as you are domiciled in an island offshore of Europe.
I'm sure that will help things here...
I'm sure that will help things here...
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Given that this is a rumour network, I'll wait for confirmation on both points of this particular rumour before blowing a gasket. However, it's not the first time I've heard the 38,000 dits a month story, (although it is the first time I've heard anything about basing).
If the 38,000 dits story proves to be true, and if (big 'if' this), as many training captains resign from training as have threatened to the day they're asked to train someone being paid more then they are, the ranks of the trainers will be thinning substantially. (Although I for one will believe it when I see it.) With a few exceptions, I just don't think most trainers will actually carry out their threats, and I believe Management, going on past performance, have come to the same conclusion.
I know of quite a few of our senior line captains (AND trainers) who would have all the ticks in the boxes required for a DEC on 38,0000 a month (except, of course, the most important one - they're not ex-BA!!!!). I wonder how many will try the resign and re-apply route? I know of one or two who've been asking about basing for years now and who've never got past first base (no pun intended) with their requests.
If the basing story as well as the 38,000 dits story is true, I think I could safely say "interesting times ahead".
----
Spreaking of 'interesting times',and totally changing subjects in mid-stream, I wonder how many of the Yank DECs will still be in Dubai five minutes afterwards should the caa-caa officially hit the fan between Dubya and Iran, a possibility that's looking a little more likely as each day passes?
If the 38,000 dits story proves to be true, and if (big 'if' this), as many training captains resign from training as have threatened to the day they're asked to train someone being paid more then they are, the ranks of the trainers will be thinning substantially. (Although I for one will believe it when I see it.) With a few exceptions, I just don't think most trainers will actually carry out their threats, and I believe Management, going on past performance, have come to the same conclusion.
I know of quite a few of our senior line captains (AND trainers) who would have all the ticks in the boxes required for a DEC on 38,0000 a month (except, of course, the most important one - they're not ex-BA!!!!). I wonder how many will try the resign and re-apply route? I know of one or two who've been asking about basing for years now and who've never got past first base (no pun intended) with their requests.
If the basing story as well as the 38,000 dits story is true, I think I could safely say "interesting times ahead".
----
Spreaking of 'interesting times',and totally changing subjects in mid-stream, I wonder how many of the Yank DECs will still be in Dubai five minutes afterwards should the caa-caa officially hit the fan between Dubya and Iran, a possibility that's looking a little more likely as each day passes?
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Can't see many trainers resigning on principle, but can see many crew, and this would include trainers, taking this as a push to far and look for employment elsewhere.
Guess this would mean EK would need even more DECs.
There has been talk over the past couple of years of taking EK public . Presumably the short term cost savings which have led to the need for DECs are intended to make the company appear to be in good shape for floating if they decide to go that way.
Guess this would mean EK would need even more DECs.
There has been talk over the past couple of years of taking EK public . Presumably the short term cost savings which have led to the need for DECs are intended to make the company appear to be in good shape for floating if they decide to go that way.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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DEC Salary
Hello everyone again. I applied and was offered 38,000 AED a month plus housing and education allowances. They also told me that I could expect some significant amount of overtime for at least the first year that I joined. Sorry to burst your bubble as I know that the many pilots that have emailed me were afraid of this very amount being offered to DECs.
I have never worked outside of the USA but I have never heard of any airline offering more money to a new-hire than the check airman training the new-hire. Just another reason I won't be joining the ranks of the fatigued and fed-up. Good luck to you all!
I have never worked outside of the USA but I have never heard of any airline offering more money to a new-hire than the check airman training the new-hire. Just another reason I won't be joining the ranks of the fatigued and fed-up. Good luck to you all!
Join Date: May 2001
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Hogwash.....not only is it not true, the figure is not even close to the mark. Gets the attention nonetheless.
Actually though, a good many trainers are earning significantly more than
Dhs 38000 basic salary per month....why do you think they don't really give a toss?
Actually though, a good many trainers are earning significantly more than
Dhs 38000 basic salary per month....why do you think they don't really give a toss?
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I'm not close to UAE and EK, so please could someone explain what is so disastrous about 38k = 10k US$? Every expats gets 10k US$, be it in India, Far East, Japan. It doesn't even have to be a wide body.
Dani
Dani
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Bird On, have been a trainer for about 3 years now. My salary, including training allowance, but excluding overtime pay (of which I make hardly any even though I regularly do over 100 credit hours from the old system) is never more than 32000 Dhs.
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Picu
Your figures cannot be correct.
If you have been training for 3 years you must be at least a 4 year captain which will put you on around 30k. Plus training pay = 35k min. Transport allowance comes on top of that. I think you are trying to wind somebody up. If not you need to visit payroll.
If you have been training for 3 years you must be at least a 4 year captain which will put you on around 30k. Plus training pay = 35k min. Transport allowance comes on top of that. I think you are trying to wind somebody up. If not you need to visit payroll.
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Vorsicht, you're right. ( Checked my payslip ) Basic is just under 30K so with the training allowance comes to about 35K. I forgot to take into account provident scheme payments etc.
The figure would still be short of the 38K offered to DECs ( as the rumour goes)
I refuse to include the transport allowance - we have to use our own car unlike everybody else.
Red hackle makes about 4000 a month in overtime - I never make anything near that. Good luck to him.
There are many other trainers below me in seniority who make even less than I do ( apart from overtime - I obviously don't know how much they make in that respect.)
Interesting to see that Red Hackle, 11 years in the company, makes 40K a month (basic and training). Since that would be only 2K more than a new Dec, WHO DOES NOT TRAIN, I find that sad.
I only hope that this rumour is only that and nothing more. AS had a chat with us recently, and when asked whether DECs will get a higher pay than first year captain, he denied it. Until it happens, i just have to take his word for it.
The figure would still be short of the 38K offered to DECs ( as the rumour goes)
I refuse to include the transport allowance - we have to use our own car unlike everybody else.
Red hackle makes about 4000 a month in overtime - I never make anything near that. Good luck to him.
There are many other trainers below me in seniority who make even less than I do ( apart from overtime - I obviously don't know how much they make in that respect.)
Interesting to see that Red Hackle, 11 years in the company, makes 40K a month (basic and training). Since that would be only 2K more than a new Dec, WHO DOES NOT TRAIN, I find that sad.
I only hope that this rumour is only that and nothing more. AS had a chat with us recently, and when asked whether DECs will get a higher pay than first year captain, he denied it. Until it happens, i just have to take his word for it.
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at the end of the day if anyone does not like it, (if the rumour mill is correct or not) then leave like so many others are doing. plenty of other jobs with better life styles elsewhere which is what we really want.
keep recovering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
keep recovering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Time for me either write to management - or fully accept this news
This is very concerning news indeed! There are over 1600 views and now 16 posts - 1 post in the last 400 views- for me it is time to voice my opinion this is the most important issue for my retirement! If I do not write a letter of complaint to management expressing concern about this news then I have willing accepted the DEC contract without my own conditions being attended to. Our flight ops management will only be in a position to do something if this becomes a major point of concern that needs to be voiced to the next level I am aware of that and have written a letter. The airline is expanding at a massive rate and the airline will rightly try to do this in the most economical way possible as any of us would if we were airline owners. The airline need to be convinced that the cost of bringing in direct entry Captains paid at a rate above that of any pilot with less than 15 years (95 % of the current pilot ranks) is not worth the risk of ruining the good will and loyalty to this organization that has helped to keep it growing so well. Moral is a key issue, my roster is under huge pressure from under manning and I am willing to help as much as I can at this critical time, the problem is I have a retirement fund that is so awful that the national pilots have left it. To accept this means that I and 95% of our pilots will NEVER achieve a salary at the offering to DEC's and my salary is the only thing that will realistically pay for my retirement and provide future opportunities for my family. For me personally this has resulted in my first post here. I have nearly seven years of dedicated and largely unwavering support for this great airline and nearly twenty more years to retirment. The news that they try to fill the numbers without rewarding the loyalty I find depressing. If the result of all this is negative then its time for me to seriously consider what has been unthinkable- joining our colleagues who have taken a move to the far east where accommodation allowances can help fund retirement - (twenty years of rental allowance at USD 7000 per month will make the difference) Here its my salary that has to support the retirement planning. These new DEC will forever get a salary in excess of mine and they are coming to us having worked for our competitors for many years. The company will reward them more every month and that I find difficult. I am sure that many like our leader have a very beneficial retirement package in place. I find that very short sighted and disheartening and difficult to maintain my enthusiam for a company that I greatly care about.So for me a time to make a personal choice the first step is either: A) Write a personal message to the company stongly expressing these concerns I have expressed B) Welcome the news that the company is paying AED 38K+ to attract well qualified DEC's and I am happy to accept - with no change in our conditions - to ensure the growth of the airline.I have chosen A)- what will you do?
Last edited by Captain Billy; 2nd Feb 2006 at 18:44. Reason: formatting paragraphs
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Hello all from another first time poster. "Captain Billy" just about sums up my feelings.
I can't help but come to the rather unpalatable conclusion that the decision makers in EGHQ have decided that now that they consider themselves to be at the helm of major airline, they need 'real' pilots, and that we, the pilots who've been manning their big white airplanes to date, including the training pilots, don't quite rate any more (if we ever did in their eyes).
I've been aware for some years now that management have absolutely no respect for us pilots, but if this is true, it really underlines that fact.
It's interesting that no one has mentioned the supposed basing offer some DECs are said to have had offered to them. Surely that can't be true?
Also interesting is the fact tha so few EK pilots feel confident enough to post their opinions here. I suspect that many are more than a little paranoid about airing their grievances anywhere, which might explain the huge disparity between hits and posts on this (and any other EK) thread.
I can't help but come to the rather unpalatable conclusion that the decision makers in EGHQ have decided that now that they consider themselves to be at the helm of major airline, they need 'real' pilots, and that we, the pilots who've been manning their big white airplanes to date, including the training pilots, don't quite rate any more (if we ever did in their eyes).
I've been aware for some years now that management have absolutely no respect for us pilots, but if this is true, it really underlines that fact.
It's interesting that no one has mentioned the supposed basing offer some DECs are said to have had offered to them. Surely that can't be true?
Also interesting is the fact tha so few EK pilots feel confident enough to post their opinions here. I suspect that many are more than a little paranoid about airing their grievances anywhere, which might explain the huge disparity between hits and posts on this (and any other EK) thread.
CM: O/S BASES ( DOMICILED IN AN ISLAND OFFSHORE OF EUROPE )..
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Capt Billy,
I think you have to reconsider your options..
A. Write a personal message to the company stongly expressing these concerns I have expressed
B. Welcome the news that the company is paying AED 38K+ to attract DEC's that never flew long haul or wide body before, thus are hardly qualified compared to many of our own First Officersand I am happy to accept - with no change in our conditions - to ensure the growth of the airline.
I know personally of a candidate offered a DEC position who only flew 737's before. Currently we have guys who never flew wide body before joining as DEC. We even have a guy who entered as a DEC with NO glass, NO pax and NEVER flew without a Flight Engineer. ALso, about half of his total time was on helicopters.
Maybe I need to be more positive. Maybe the salaries these guys were offered are the new salaries as from April. So thats 38000 for a new Captain. Our long awaited 30% payrise might be a fact???
I think you have to reconsider your options..
A. Write a personal message to the company stongly expressing these concerns I have expressed
B. Welcome the news that the company is paying AED 38K+ to attract DEC's that never flew long haul or wide body before, thus are hardly qualified compared to many of our own First Officersand I am happy to accept - with no change in our conditions - to ensure the growth of the airline.
I know personally of a candidate offered a DEC position who only flew 737's before. Currently we have guys who never flew wide body before joining as DEC. We even have a guy who entered as a DEC with NO glass, NO pax and NEVER flew without a Flight Engineer. ALso, about half of his total time was on helicopters.
Maybe I need to be more positive. Maybe the salaries these guys were offered are the new salaries as from April. So thats 38000 for a new Captain. Our long awaited 30% payrise might be a fact???