DEC's at EK
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Lets face it Emirates is really only structured the same as a short term Contract job and not a career job and this favors the DEC program.
A DEC with 6 months service has all the privileges and more of a 10 year plus Captain.....Roster Bidding, Leave Bidding, Housing, Staff Travel, Salary etc,etc.
Seniority, length of service, loyalty,sacrifice,moral all mean absolutely nought to Emirates management.
The sooner crews take the same approach and treat Emirates as the short term contract job it has become the better for all. Fly Emirates... leave...fly elsewhere...return...leave again...what have you really lost, just the pain in your rump
.
A DEC with 6 months service has all the privileges and more of a 10 year plus Captain.....Roster Bidding, Leave Bidding, Housing, Staff Travel, Salary etc,etc.
Seniority, length of service, loyalty,sacrifice,moral all mean absolutely nought to Emirates management.
The sooner crews take the same approach and treat Emirates as the short term contract job it has become the better for all. Fly Emirates... leave...fly elsewhere...return...leave again...what have you really lost, just the pain in your rump
.
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Capt Will, S Tramp, I appreciate that current circumstances now warrant you making your first posts on this site. Obviously the proposed conditions don't favour you so you've decided to write a letter and voice an opinion.
What I find slightly ironic is that only when something affects you personally do you hold your hand up. You also express some dismay at many people viewing but not contributing yet this is your first dalliance with the devil. We are all suffering because we are apathetic to most things that happen in the airline until they directly affect us.
My personal opinion is that because the airline is set up in the classic 'gulf model' of management (managers without power, rule by fear, like it or leave, guest workers, compliant regulator) nothing can change or get better unless outside forces dictate the change. This being the case Prune is actually the first step in alerting others, be they foreign regulators or prospective employees, that things in our airline are not right.
I have written letters in the past but have now given up. I think large numbers may make some difference and certainly ASRs do. A letter to TCAS only gets as far as TCAS. He is essentially powerless and it isn't in his interest to rock the boat too hard.
In short Prune does us lots of favours. In many ways it's the best representation we get in this kind of company.
What I find slightly ironic is that only when something affects you personally do you hold your hand up. You also express some dismay at many people viewing but not contributing yet this is your first dalliance with the devil. We are all suffering because we are apathetic to most things that happen in the airline until they directly affect us.
My personal opinion is that because the airline is set up in the classic 'gulf model' of management (managers without power, rule by fear, like it or leave, guest workers, compliant regulator) nothing can change or get better unless outside forces dictate the change. This being the case Prune is actually the first step in alerting others, be they foreign regulators or prospective employees, that things in our airline are not right.
I have written letters in the past but have now given up. I think large numbers may make some difference and certainly ASRs do. A letter to TCAS only gets as far as TCAS. He is essentially powerless and it isn't in his interest to rock the boat too hard.
In short Prune does us lots of favours. In many ways it's the best representation we get in this kind of company.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Ernst Quote -
“ A letter to TCAS only gets as far as TCAS. He is essentially powerless and it isn't in his interest to rock the boat too hard “
Sums it up mate - well said !
The previous two Goons in his position rocked the boat and swiftly fell overboard – desks cleaned out by lunchtime !
Fairly shocking how rapidly we’re getting on the wrong side of the drag curve !
Not only are we short of crews, I’m meeting lots of guys now who are smiling about the enforced time off due to the 900 hour annual limit.
It’s a major stuff up “ heads should roll ! “
“ A letter to TCAS only gets as far as TCAS. He is essentially powerless and it isn't in his interest to rock the boat too hard “
Sums it up mate - well said !
The previous two Goons in his position rocked the boat and swiftly fell overboard – desks cleaned out by lunchtime !
Fairly shocking how rapidly we’re getting on the wrong side of the drag curve !
Not only are we short of crews, I’m meeting lots of guys now who are smiling about the enforced time off due to the 900 hour annual limit.
It’s a major stuff up “ heads should roll ! “
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Hi Gents,
Just for the record - if one was to join EK this year as an FO with 4100 hrs, how long would it take to get a command on 777 fleet and the 330 ? taking into account the aircraft deliveries and DEC's ..... i know this may seem like a " how long is a piece of string " type question but some idea would help !
Cheers !
Max
Just for the record - if one was to join EK this year as an FO with 4100 hrs, how long would it take to get a command on 777 fleet and the 330 ? taking into account the aircraft deliveries and DEC's ..... i know this may seem like a " how long is a piece of string " type question but some idea would help !
Cheers !
Max
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Its like everything here, it depends when the expansion will stop. We now have 3 regional long haul carriers and a bunch of LoCos in the game.
Upgrades right now are taking between 3 and 4 years. But...past performance is not an indicator of future performance. Getting out my fag packet:
If you joined today it would be at 1300ish on the list. Lets assume 75 DECs/year (optimistic), after 4 years you would be behind 1600 other pilots and so to get a command we would probably need about 2900 pilots allowing for management etc. We are planning on recruiting about 250/year (I said planning!). That would be 1400/250 = 5ish years assuming the expansion keeps going at the present rate. Might be a tad quicker; might be a lot slower. As a 4000hr kind of guy you might also get screwed by accelerated commands.
Upgrades right now are taking between 3 and 4 years. But...past performance is not an indicator of future performance. Getting out my fag packet:
If you joined today it would be at 1300ish on the list. Lets assume 75 DECs/year (optimistic), after 4 years you would be behind 1600 other pilots and so to get a command we would probably need about 2900 pilots allowing for management etc. We are planning on recruiting about 250/year (I said planning!). That would be 1400/250 = 5ish years assuming the expansion keeps going at the present rate. Might be a tad quicker; might be a lot slower. As a 4000hr kind of guy you might also get screwed by accelerated commands.
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Cheers Ceberus,
Just to clarify - is an accelerated command for a pilot who has command hours - ie: 6000 + and has held a command before ? .... so he may expect a command in 18 months or so ?
Max
Just to clarify - is an accelerated command for a pilot who has command hours - ie: 6000 + and has held a command before ? .... so he may expect a command in 18 months or so ?
Max
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Resignations were traditionally low but were much higher last year. However, that is why I left the flex in the equation (2900-1300=1600). Without any resignations you would be looking at 1600/250=nearly 6 1/2 years, with say 50/year you'd be looking at less, unless the guys lost were replaced with DECs. If the expansion 'stalled' though the picture might look very different. We are approaching Vls, hopefully Alpha Floor is about to kick in and save us all.
As for accelerated commands, allegedly they are available to guys with 8000+ and a couple of thousand hours of command time. But....getting accelerated also removes an F/O from the bottom of the pile and that might not fit into the company's expansion plans. All of the guys above you will be qualified for a command as they are now waiting to the 4 year point. You have to decide whether F/Os or DECs are easier to come by.
As for accelerated commands, allegedly they are available to guys with 8000+ and a couple of thousand hours of command time. But....getting accelerated also removes an F/O from the bottom of the pile and that might not fit into the company's expansion plans. All of the guys above you will be qualified for a command as they are now waiting to the 4 year point. You have to decide whether F/Os or DECs are easier to come by.
Last edited by Cerberus; 4th Feb 2006 at 04:31.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Max,
Just to clarify the accelerated command program. We only use accelerated command upgrades if there are no 3 year first officers available for upgrade.
On the airbus, there are many 3 year first officers who are waiting to upgrade, so there will be no accelerated command's in the next year and a half or so. The story might be different on the Boeing. You can NEVER expect to upgrade in 18 months, as many 18 month+ dec/accelerated f/o's
will tell you!
Just to clarify the accelerated command program. We only use accelerated command upgrades if there are no 3 year first officers available for upgrade.
On the airbus, there are many 3 year first officers who are waiting to upgrade, so there will be no accelerated command's in the next year and a half or so. The story might be different on the Boeing. You can NEVER expect to upgrade in 18 months, as many 18 month+ dec/accelerated f/o's
will tell you!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Thank you one and all for all of the private messages that you have sent me over the past week. I know most of the Emirates pilots are quite concerned with the way things are transpiring over in the sand.
To answer just a few of your questions I am a current B-767 captain but I also have a type rating on the B-777 with no PIC time. I have over 5000 hours of heavy PIC time.
Some of my fellow colleagues have told me that Emirates was at a job fair in Atlanta trying to recruit some captains. Most were just checking it out but they have a few takers. Some were interviewed in the states. Even at 38,000 AED a month that is considerably below what we are making now but some pilots are panicking here.
Keep the faith and the private messages coming.
Tom
To answer just a few of your questions I am a current B-767 captain but I also have a type rating on the B-777 with no PIC time. I have over 5000 hours of heavy PIC time.
Some of my fellow colleagues have told me that Emirates was at a job fair in Atlanta trying to recruit some captains. Most were just checking it out but they have a few takers. Some were interviewed in the states. Even at 38,000 AED a month that is considerably below what we are making now but some pilots are panicking here.
Keep the faith and the private messages coming.
Tom
Something about this on rumour busters on the portal.
Don
Don
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OK Tomcat I call Bullsh*t
Just like LHR rain your starting to lose track of all the BS you spout here.
You were not offered a job at 38000 dhs per month, you would have to come to Dubai, do the interview and wait for an offer, that didnt happen. You said you wouldn't even come for the interview, so it's an outright fib.
There was no job fair in Atlanta that EK was at, more BS.
I not sure what you think your trying to prove here, maybe justifying a bad decision I suppose.
Not matter what problems EK has and there are lots, we are not bankrupt and according to all acounts Delta's long term outlook is grim. Iknow what you guys make and after taxes it is less that EK left seat after a few years, wide body.
Just like LHR rain your starting to lose track of all the BS you spout here.
You were not offered a job at 38000 dhs per month, you would have to come to Dubai, do the interview and wait for an offer, that didnt happen. You said you wouldn't even come for the interview, so it's an outright fib.
There was no job fair in Atlanta that EK was at, more BS.
I not sure what you think your trying to prove here, maybe justifying a bad decision I suppose.
Not matter what problems EK has and there are lots, we are not bankrupt and according to all acounts Delta's long term outlook is grim. Iknow what you guys make and after taxes it is less that EK left seat after a few years, wide body.
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Let's get a few things straight real quick. Okay! Don't put down any pilot because of the financial state of the company. It is not anyones fault (except the mangers) that a company goes into bankruptcy and at the same time you are not someone special because your company makes almost a billion dollars in profits. If you want to dive deeper look at the reasons why your company is succesful but that is a later post if you want to go that route.
Secondly I never said that I went to a job fair in ATL just that I heard that Emirates was there and someone else back up that asertion. Talk to the people that were there. I do know that Emirates was in DFW maybe 10 days or so ago but don't hold me to the dates.
Also I never said that I would not interview just that I would not take the job IF offered. It was offered and I turned it down.
In addition I am glad that you know what we make. Keep in mind that amount is now over a 50% paycut as well as numerous work rule changes with a frozen A fund. You start out somewhere around $7500 which I fully realize is tax free with a villa. Even our bottom captain earns at least $145,000. The only reason the offer was competive was that Emirates was giving a significant amount above your minimum.
I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else.
Secondly I never said that I went to a job fair in ATL just that I heard that Emirates was there and someone else back up that asertion. Talk to the people that were there. I do know that Emirates was in DFW maybe 10 days or so ago but don't hold me to the dates.
Also I never said that I would not interview just that I would not take the job IF offered. It was offered and I turned it down.
In addition I am glad that you know what we make. Keep in mind that amount is now over a 50% paycut as well as numerous work rule changes with a frozen A fund. You start out somewhere around $7500 which I fully realize is tax free with a villa. Even our bottom captain earns at least $145,000. The only reason the offer was competive was that Emirates was giving a significant amount above your minimum.
I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else.
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EK did attend the seminar, maybe not Atlanta, but somewhere in Texas... far-rider, you ride too far...
Seminar & Job Fair Airlines Attending List
Airlines Attending the Irving (Jan 2006) Job Fair
- Select a Seminar -LAX ( Mar 2006 )DFW ( Jan 2006 )ATL ( Nov 2005 )LAX ( Sep 2005 )DCA ( Aug 2005 )MIA ( Jun 2005 )ATL ( Apr 2005 )DFW ( Jan 2005 )
Foreign
Emirates Airlines
Attending: Donna Rawson, Recruitment Specialist
Disclaimer: Although the participation of airline representatives is confirmed at the time of your registration,
attendance is not guaranteed and is subject to change.
For more information on attending or exhibiting at the Airline Pilot Career Seminar and Job Fair,
contact AIR, Inc. at 1-800-AIR-APPS (800-247-2777).
AIR, Inc. * Atlanta, GA * Copyright ©2006 * 800-AIR-APPS/800-JET-JOBS * www.airapps.com / www.jet-jobs.com
Seminar & Job Fair Airlines Attending List
Airlines Attending the Irving (Jan 2006) Job Fair
- Select a Seminar -LAX ( Mar 2006 )DFW ( Jan 2006 )ATL ( Nov 2005 )LAX ( Sep 2005 )DCA ( Aug 2005 )MIA ( Jun 2005 )ATL ( Apr 2005 )DFW ( Jan 2005 )
Foreign
Emirates Airlines
Attending: Donna Rawson, Recruitment Specialist
Disclaimer: Although the participation of airline representatives is confirmed at the time of your registration,
attendance is not guaranteed and is subject to change.
For more information on attending or exhibiting at the Airline Pilot Career Seminar and Job Fair,
contact AIR, Inc. at 1-800-AIR-APPS (800-247-2777).
AIR, Inc. * Atlanta, GA * Copyright ©2006 * 800-AIR-APPS/800-JET-JOBS * www.airapps.com / www.jet-jobs.com
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TOMCAT
"Also I never said that I would not interview just that I would not take the job IF offered. It was offered and I turned it down."
Read that many times over and still makes no sense. By the way, that dhs38,000 is complete tosh.
I'll get out my resignation letter IF that ever becomes fact but until then I will ignore wind up merchants like you and join Quod boy for a beer........or two!
"Also I never said that I would not interview just that I would not take the job IF offered. It was offered and I turned it down."
Read that many times over and still makes no sense. By the way, that dhs38,000 is complete tosh.
I'll get out my resignation letter IF that ever becomes fact but until then I will ignore wind up merchants like you and join Quod boy for a beer........or two!
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BYMON,
Come on down to Longs,however Im afraid the 38K rumour is gaining momentum and it would not surprise me in the LEAST if introduced,why else would any 777 pilot give up seniority in an established airline to come to EK?
Its a yet another short term fix,but if you were 54,with a 90K UK pension,150 K lump sum sitting in the bank after your 30 yrs at BA ,(or about to be furloughed by Delta.or a current 737 Capt wanting big jet time) wouldnt you consider 3 yrs in the sunshinme to improve yr golf handicap?
I think it would be the single most divisive move yet in a long list of unbelievable decisions thus far.
Imagine trying pulling thatstunt in BA.
Beer awaits,QB
Come on down to Longs,however Im afraid the 38K rumour is gaining momentum and it would not surprise me in the LEAST if introduced,why else would any 777 pilot give up seniority in an established airline to come to EK?
Its a yet another short term fix,but if you were 54,with a 90K UK pension,150 K lump sum sitting in the bank after your 30 yrs at BA ,(or about to be furloughed by Delta.or a current 737 Capt wanting big jet time) wouldnt you consider 3 yrs in the sunshinme to improve yr golf handicap?
I think it would be the single most divisive move yet in a long list of unbelievable decisions thus far.
Imagine trying pulling thatstunt in BA.
Beer awaits,QB