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Airbus 320 type rating & 500 hours of Line training Rate of success??

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Airbus 320 type rating & 500 hours of Line training Rate of success??

Old 18th Oct 2012, 10:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I love it when you apply somewhere and they return your email saying they have no places but are more than happy to offer you line training
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 09:46
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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a320

well citilink has o hrs 500hrs line trainning u have to pay about 50k usd for that
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Old 23rd Oct 2012, 14:24
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Still with pay to fly? Just stop it and try a normal job.
That's all
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Old 24th Oct 2012, 01:02
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Capricious is what I call to these rich dady kids that wants to fly a shiny jet whatever the cost!
I would say more .. lack of intelligence and common sense to see that the Pilot Market jobs are full and theres no jobs on globe for low timers, but P2F guys insist like babies crying!
Guys like you are destroing this profession and make me vomit!
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Old 28th Oct 2012, 04:47
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Dear jaocastro

I'm not going to tell you do it or not, i'm going to tell you that if you're looking for an answer this forum or any other it's really the wrong place to look for it .... i did find my answer in this way and i did the biggest mistake of my life immediately after... here you will find a discrete number of people (TRTO, Agencies, flying schools) direcly interested in getting people like you and me involved in their scam , they will feed your your burning dream with plenty of gasoline talking about " THE GREAT PILOT SHORTAGE " , great working opportunities after 500LT, 777 employed after 500LT, maybe true or maybe you will end up like me and many other Pilots ( i personally know) the don't even have the courage to loose their face comeing here to tell the ugly truth...

I'm currently empolyed in asia from 3 years in a very expensive 737 Line training program , i've direct experience , please feel free to ask anything but don't post me in private like many others are doing , ask me here where anybody can read .....

I'm personally trying to convince some of my collegues to come here at least 20 minutes aevery day ( not easy to find 20 minutes when you fly 110 hours a month ) and write about their experience, so it can become an even fight against this scammy no soul Liars !!
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Old 28th Oct 2012, 09:13
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Posts: 152
737 Ride

I applaud the post above trying to lift the lid on the reality of line training programs. I made a BIG mistake 3 years ago by going and getting a jet rating without any gaurantee's of a job... I was naive and stupid and fully regret it.

But I am ok now, why? Because I realized my mistake. Alot of people throw good money after bad money and feel 'but I've just wasted money on a rating! If I don't throw another 50,000 euro at it then its useless!!'

But it is already useless, unless things change, throwing away the rest of your money won't change that. People will always know you are one of the guys who helped destroy the T&C's for this profession and it will follow you like a bad smell for the rest of your career.

And another thing does anyone actually realize how much money 50,000 euro is? Living a normal lifestyle it will take years to pay that off, even if you do get the 777 job they promise you....

Personally I know several people who disagree with me and are currently in the middle of line training programs, mostly unhappy, but will defend there decisions to the end...
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Old 31st Oct 2012, 13:24
  #47 (permalink)  
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737 Ride,

First of all tank you for the reply, it's good to have an honest comment like yours. I know that this is a very competitive profession, and hardly we see someone sharing the experiences they had.

I am aware of the 737 program in Asia, and actually there are a few questions I would like to ask you if you dont mind.

The first one has to do with the agency that you have made contact to provide you with this program.

Have you applied trough Eagle Jet or Falcon aviation?

What do you think it would be the best solution?

I have read some information about these two agencies, but establishing contact with some one that currently is in the program it's different.


A few other questions I would like to ask you, has to do with the living costs in Jakarta. This includes rent, meals and transportation.

Did the company helped you finding an apartment or house before you arrived at Jakarta, or you had to do everything by yourself?

How much is an average rent in Jakarta?

I know that it will vary on weather it is a house or an apartment and the place where it is located. But in a situation like mine, I need to stay close to the airport or the airline company location.

Can you tell me what is your approximate cost in rent?

How have you solved the transportation issue? The airline company provides transportation for it's pilots?

I would like to ask you one more thing, that has to do with the "waiting period" some people say that they have spent a few months to complete the ground school and getting they're licenses ready.

Do you know what is the average waiting time? I know that every case is different, but some people wait less than others.

I am asking you all of these questions, so I can make a good judgement of how much money I will need.


If you have the time, I would appreciate your help with these questions.
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Old 2nd Nov 2012, 16:47
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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No real professionals start at the apex of their chosen field. Why should aviation be any different? 200 hr pilots should not start out their careers so close to the highest level attainable in their career path.
One should start a career in aviation knowing it will require some hard work in some poor conditions for a considerable amount of time before attaining the required level of experience and COMPETENCE, to reach the final goal.
People that circumvent the process cheapen the industry as a whole and bring only disdain on themselves.
There are plenty of turboprop jobs around where they will actually pay you to fly. Now you might have to move out of mum and dads house, maybe even to another country, but at least it will be a respectable job you are doing not an expensive hobby that in the long run will ensure you get payed less. Don't be so short sighted.
I've recently heard or companies that are implementing pay to upgrade to captain. Pathetic.
My days flying small planes were the most fun and provided the best learning experiences of my career. P2F is not looked on favorably by me nor any of my peers. Eventually many of us who came up the old way will be in management positions and I don't think those with P2F backgrounds will fare too well.
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Old 3rd Nov 2012, 02:12
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Dear, cgwhitemonk11

Yes you lost your money but you've been smarter than any of us , i spent almost twice the money you lost hopeing in a better future that did not came, after the last pay cut and after i heard my son calling my father Daddy ( my family is leeving with my parents becouse i can not affort the rent for them ) i've realized that i'm loosing my life so , don't be shy my friend , you did the right thing screwing up this BS.


Personally I know several people who disagree with me and are currently in
the middle of line training programs, mostly unhappy, but will defend there
decisions to the end...
Yes, it's a kind of Psycological reaction, kind of stoccolma sindrome where you love your kidnapper !! I was like that as well but now... after 3 years that banks are continously knocking my door as they want money back, my father feeding my family, i'm a pubblic failure , i can not hide anymore.... so here i am....

Last edited by 737RIDE; 3rd Nov 2012 at 03:32.
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Old 3rd Nov 2012, 03:19
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: jakarta
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Dear joaocastro


I have read some information about these two agencies, but establishing
contact with some one that currently is in the program it's different
Sorry but i can not help you here, i see lots of cadets comeing from indian MSD as well but i don't know how to contact any agency.


Did the company helped you finding an apartment or house before you arrived
at Jakarta, or you had to do everything by yourself?
you will deal everithing by yourself, local agencies speak english


How much is an average rent in Jakarta?
Good solution is Serpong, one hour motorway south the airport, 3 bedroom house fully furnished in a good cluster is about 12000 euros a year ( contract are not less than 1 year in serpong ) , best solution is Central Park complex in west Jakarta, 30 minutes from the airport (no traffic of course), 3 beedrom is approx 17000 euros a year but very nice place and you can get a six months contract with some agencies, Thamrin city in Jakarta Centre is a little bit cheaper but crazy traffic to go there, sometimes 2 hours stuck in the traffic when you come back from the AIRPORT !!
I personally share an apartament with another Pilot, all inclusive ( electricity, water, paytv and crapy internet) we share about 1000 euros a month but is really a decent place.

you can find a lot of cheaper accomodations in jakarta but you really have to be carefull where you go to live , this place can be dirty far over your expectations ....

How have you solved the transportation issue? The airline company provides
transportation for it's pilots?
Transport is not a total crap, 40% is ok, 30% is late , 30% does not come at all so you take the taxy to go work.
when you finish working you have to wait for a driver ( captains, local FO and sometimes even Flight attendands get trasport before expats of course ) but usually i wait no more than 40 minutes....

From January with the new contract no transport anymore , all the expat FO (not the locals of course) will have to moove in Ballaraja !! (a complex about 1 hour and 30 minutes east of the airport ) the complex is massive, divided in male and female area, will take all The expats FO, Flight attendands , manteniance, ramp and office workers, busses every hour day and night for the airport, you'll have to sign every time you go out or you get in so they will know exattly witch door to knock to wake you up and send you at work when they need....
Sounds really in the chinese Lionair owner stile, work 25 hours per day....


Do you know what is the average waiting time? I know that every case is
different, but some people wait less than others.
I don't know exatly about time after application, i heardis about 6 months to come in jakarta, after you're in jakarta it can vary a lot, you could start after 5 months or after 8, everyone ha different problems and different storyes (i was Grounded more than one month waiting for my yearly license verification as the demand was very high ), last bathc did not start ground school after 2 months, every line training captain has 2 trainee in the cockpit, now i see the sistem is really saturated of wannable FO , it will be better maybe next year, and anyway when the glass is so full they cut a lot on the simulator , i heard a lot of them don't pass the checkride as the standards are now very high !!

What do you think it would be the best solution?
I really have no idea my friend, i wish i could answer this question to myself as well, i think the autorities have to stop this, FAA in America has now a kind of protection against agencies an flight schools speculations, 1500 for the atp and for passenger transport, so you estabilish again the natural order of things, i heard o lot in US going for regional after beeing flight instructors an upgrade for a major airline after some experience without pay anithing !! not even the type rating, i'm not sure about this , but i think once again the Americans are doing the right thing.... i hope JAA will copy and paste as well....

Please feel free to ask more...

Last edited by 737RIDE; 3rd Nov 2012 at 03:33.
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Old 3rd Nov 2012, 03:54
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: jakarta
Age: 36
Posts: 20
Dear Kolo666


No real professionals start at the apex of their chosen field. Why should
aviation be any different? 200 hr pilots should not start out their careers so
close to the highest level attainable in their career path.
Icame to this LT program after some years of instruction in US, mainly MEP and more than 1000 hours, the only way to upgrade was to pay or being lucky enough to get in RyanAir, but apparently i was to experienced for them.... as i'm now too experienced for them and many other airlines....


I've recently heard or companies that are implementing pay to upgrade to
captain. Pathetic.
i'm afraid is true, many Capatains pay EagleJet to get a job, they don't talk on PPRuNe , i met them here, some wants to upgrade , other out from the market for couple of years for any reason so no current anymore and you have to pay again....

The only good deal is for LT captains , they get good money and there is shortage at the moment, so again , the ones that get the better deal are those that didn't pay any training or any agency, they did get everithing for free and still they make money over us.....

There are plenty of turboprop jobs around where they will actually pay you to fly.
This is actually true, i'm invited for an interview in europe for a position to fly Jetstream , looks ok, salary and conditions are better that what i have now, i'm seriously considering to giveup the 737 , the problem is if i don't fly it for 6 months there will be no way in the future to get in the 737 again unless i pay again.... and anyway i can not find the time to go for the interview, next time i'm in europe i would really like to see my kids again....

Last edited by 737RIDE; 3rd Nov 2012 at 04:16.
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Old 3rd Nov 2012, 13:00
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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jetstream

contact us

737 are these guys the ones you were talking about? I cant seem to find another Jetstream...

I would love a turbo-prop job but I don't think they are as easy to get as people make out, with only 850tt anyway, im banking on my options improving once im over the 1000 mark next year.

Aside from the morals and rights are wrongs of the whole thing, if im not mistaken you will have at least 1500 hrs with 500 on type by the time you are finished, surely more doors will open for you then?

Also if it is of interest to anyone I know Wizz air have many open days scheduled in London soon for A320 TR guys with no hours on type but over 1000tt.
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Old 3rd Nov 2012, 13:08
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe he means... British Aerospace Jetstream 41 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 3rd Nov 2012, 16:39
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
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@737RIDE

I have enjoyed reading your posts bud. Nice work!

Sorry but i can not help you here, i see lots of cadets comeing from indian MSD as well but i don't know how to contact any agency.
Really?? A lot of cadets eh? I have heard of a lot of these guys not making it past the sim checks. I am not surprised though. The two guys i know who went for gigs at Lion and Sriwijaya would any day struggle to make it past an airline sim check.

No offence but when i think about the quality of guys going for these schemes, i wonder if flying a jet requires much skill at all. Or maybe an accident is waiting to happen?! Anyways, till a couple of months back, the people from MSD and Glorietta were contacting me regularly, offering a "job" in Indonesia. All they got in reply was a stiff middle finger. "Passion for flying" and all those delusions sound good but i need to make money and not keep spending it, especially the money that i did not earn or do not have.

Yes, it's a kind of Psycological reaction, kind of stoccolma sindrome where you love your kidnapper !! I was like that as well but now... after 3 years that banks are continously knocking my door as they want money back, my father feeding my family, i'm a pubblic failure , i can not hide anymore.... so here i am....
From what i have observed, it is just an itch. Got a license but no job......got to do something..........can't think straight...........insecure about what the people around you will think if you quit. And whats worse is that the more money in your pocket, the more itchy it gets After you give in to this itch and spend more(good money after bad) to get a T/R, the itch turns into pain.

Just wanted to think aloud. Thank you for bearing with me.
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Old 7th Nov 2012, 09:25
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Entry prop jobs, look in Asia Africa and the Caribbean.
Entry level jet jobs look in Asia
There are still decent companies out there that won't turn you into a whore.
I know a handful of guys that just recently went from small turboprops onto heavy jets, they got their asses bonded heavily but they didn't go out of pocket for it. They did it right and put in their time.
Simple as that, if there aren't any jobs when you are looking stay in the job you have and wait it out.
Don't cheat your peers and take money out of your own pocket.
There is no other possible outcome from P2F than the lowering of terms and conditions across the board, it will come back to bite you, and all of us for that matter.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 01:49
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: jakarta
Age: 36
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737 are these guys the ones you were talking about? I cant seem to find
another Jetstream...

I'm sorry my friend , i had the info from a guy that told to keep it for myself .

I have enjoyed reading your posts bud. Nice work!
Tanks buddy , yes , actually those from msd are those that have the biggest problems , basically they do a FAA type rating that is much more less than the JAA one

just few days ag i guy i know didn't manage to renew the contract with Lionair , they told him ( via e-mail ) " we are not interested to extend your contract "
so he went personally to ask why and the answer was :
" becouse we are not interested !!! "
so he told him :
" how is it possible? if you are still recruiting FO from the Agencies and there are plenty of FO waiting for company check or to start line training means you need FO !!!!"
After this question he became really pissed and he asked him to live the office ....

Jesus ... what's appening in this world...
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 10:09
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: FL 340
Age: 50
Posts: 51
Personally this is what I think.
Aviation today is not what it used to be back then, so for everyone that keeps saying "it shouldn't be any different than any other job", or it shouldn't be done that way, what not, is total bull.
Aviation is a game of luck, OR a rich man's game, that is all.
The number of times I've seen guys that have very poor knowledge and don't deserve the right hand seat is countless, yet they still sit there, and it is what it is.

I know so many guys that went through p2f schemes and now are working regular jobs, what's the problem?
Some of you speak of bush flying, Or ATRs, etc. as if the jobs in Africa are all stacked up. Friend of mine couldn't land a job in Africa in 4 years so far.

If your dream job is to fly, and you have the money, p2F now, fly as a job later.
I'd do it if I had to. Else you won't have a job, and don't forget many others ARE willing to p2f anyway.
Soon there won't be enough p2f opportunities either.

Good Luck

Last edited by 330airbus; 9th Nov 2012 at 11:03.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 17:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: egypt
Posts: 1
330airbus

you are right I see many people which they have no idea how the aircraft is fly ..and the job it self she still waiting for them right now ...

aviation is the function of cantacts just cantacts

No fair in aviation

but please tell me about those guys wihch they done p2f schemes ...and they still no jobs right now why ???

Last edited by air camper; 10th Nov 2012 at 00:08.
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Old 15th Nov 2012, 11:45
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1
Good thread, Certainly reinforced my belief that I should not spend money on line-training without a promise of an actual job.

Finished my Pilot training almost a year ago and have been unable to get any pilot related work.
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Old 9th Dec 2012, 20:23
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Basingstoke
Age: 38
Posts: 2
Hi Guys

Very good thread.
I'm in same position as most of you, I have my CPL IR, and what now?
My advantage (I think) is work in aviation as mechanic, and next step will be AML, just to have some other option to pay the bills, as the market in not really good for us.
Other think is get work with airlines, any kind of it, cabin crew, ground staff, check in, etc. and from time to time airlines do internal recruitment for flight crews, like easy jet recently, basic CPL was enough plus 5000 for rest of the training and of course bond for few years, but it is still decent job and not really p2f.
Just if somebody is interested BA will be doing recruiting for mechanics next year, no experience was necessary, at least it wasn't this year.
Best of luck, and hope we all find our dream jobs.
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