The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
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Day Dreamer I'm not sure why you are so bitter with CTC.
"For those of you who have failed CTC selection, look elsewhere as there are better options"
Can you tell me where, or is it on the planet you're on? Like Allocate On Arrival, I'm just wondering why and how such a bitter taste has been left in your mouth.
It has been unfortunate what has happened with the cadets who have recently gone to easyjet but that's what has happened to cadets who have recently gone to one airline. What about the cadets who have recently gone to TCX or Monarch or even those who are now flying for BA like myself? In fact, there are cadets soon to be starting type ratings with TCX and those who have just started with easyjet on the 737. The industry has been hit hard but it will pick itself up again but no one knows yet when that will be.
As Allocate On Arrival has mentioned CTC will renew your IR and if you haven't flown for a while and you get put onto a TR course, you will have the opportunity to use the sims at CTC to refresh your valuable skills for nothing. Does this happen at OAA? No. Because OAA will get you qualified and then that's their job done. You will find yourself also paying more for the services.
For those looking at CTC I would strongly recommend not being put off by those who have been left with a bitter taste in their mouth. At times like these it can be seen as a gamble but you are still 18+ months away from actually finishing your training. I'm not removing any health warnings that go with the scheme as it is a lot of money and commitment. When airlines aren't seeking to absorb the hold pool (see what I did there), times can be hard but that's when you temp elsewhere for a bit like I did, until it's your time.
Less scare stories please as this world has enough of those as it is.
"For those of you who have failed CTC selection, look elsewhere as there are better options"
Can you tell me where, or is it on the planet you're on? Like Allocate On Arrival, I'm just wondering why and how such a bitter taste has been left in your mouth.
It has been unfortunate what has happened with the cadets who have recently gone to easyjet but that's what has happened to cadets who have recently gone to one airline. What about the cadets who have recently gone to TCX or Monarch or even those who are now flying for BA like myself? In fact, there are cadets soon to be starting type ratings with TCX and those who have just started with easyjet on the 737. The industry has been hit hard but it will pick itself up again but no one knows yet when that will be.
As Allocate On Arrival has mentioned CTC will renew your IR and if you haven't flown for a while and you get put onto a TR course, you will have the opportunity to use the sims at CTC to refresh your valuable skills for nothing. Does this happen at OAA? No. Because OAA will get you qualified and then that's their job done. You will find yourself also paying more for the services.
For those looking at CTC I would strongly recommend not being put off by those who have been left with a bitter taste in their mouth. At times like these it can be seen as a gamble but you are still 18+ months away from actually finishing your training. I'm not removing any health warnings that go with the scheme as it is a lot of money and commitment. When airlines aren't seeking to absorb the hold pool (see what I did there), times can be hard but that's when you temp elsewhere for a bit like I did, until it's your time.
Less scare stories please as this world has enough of those as it is.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Dear CTC Wings applicants...
I have never posted before, but have read a lot of what has been said over the last few weeks. I have been under CTCs selection process for this time, and obviously been able to use this forum for useful information. I feel it is a shame I had to pick through the detritus that has been left by those who have attempted to pass CTCs selection scheme and failed.
Those of you who have abused this facility because of your ill-fortune are what can only be described as the lowest of the low, and quite frankly I am not surprised that CTC has been able to weed you out. It gives me great comfort that people of your nature will struggle to attain what we have all set out to achieve.
I would like to mention some key points that I hope future applicants will note:
1) If any negative post on this forum has ever made you doubt wanting to be a pilot…… don’t bother applying.
2) If you are worrying about the current financial climate of concern and the knock on effect it has on the aviation industry, in particular the available job market........Don’t! What’s the point? No-one can predict what will happen in 2 years following your training. You only live once and who knows when you might get hit by that bus.
3) If you truly want this then go for it! Listen to the people who have done it successfully and are living the dream.
But the intelligent, and in turn more likely to be successful, applicants, will already know this. So I’ll stop teaching granny to suck eggs, and will look forward to seeing you out in New Zealand (I’ll be the one with the big smile on my face).
For those of you who have posted negative comments purely because you are bitter, when you’re thinking about your next post …… just switch your PC off and get on with your own life.
There will be no more posts from me. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE.
Those of you who have abused this facility because of your ill-fortune are what can only be described as the lowest of the low, and quite frankly I am not surprised that CTC has been able to weed you out. It gives me great comfort that people of your nature will struggle to attain what we have all set out to achieve.
I would like to mention some key points that I hope future applicants will note:
1) If any negative post on this forum has ever made you doubt wanting to be a pilot…… don’t bother applying.
2) If you are worrying about the current financial climate of concern and the knock on effect it has on the aviation industry, in particular the available job market........Don’t! What’s the point? No-one can predict what will happen in 2 years following your training. You only live once and who knows when you might get hit by that bus.
3) If you truly want this then go for it! Listen to the people who have done it successfully and are living the dream.
But the intelligent, and in turn more likely to be successful, applicants, will already know this. So I’ll stop teaching granny to suck eggs, and will look forward to seeing you out in New Zealand (I’ll be the one with the big smile on my face).
For those of you who have posted negative comments purely because you are bitter, when you’re thinking about your next post …… just switch your PC off and get on with your own life.
There will be no more posts from me. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE.
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Thats all very nice and good luck with the course. You are firmly in posession of those tinted specs though. I'd leave the preaching until you have finished the course, got a job and had a few years of experience in the industry.
I've done it and I'm a few years into airline flying. And it's a great job, and a great feeling when all the hard work pays off.
However.
The debt is big and it takes a long time to pay it off. Which is fine, if you get a job quick and/or your airline doesn't totally exploit you, as my employers have just done with 22 CTC cadets.
I'm not being negative or a miserable git, I'm just telling it how it is, from a view inside the industry. No-one knows how long this downturn will last. By all means give CTC a go, but all this "follow your dream" and "go for it" stuff is being given to you by guys who are understandably buoyant at the prospect of New Zealand. The cold hard fact is that this is a seriously bad time to be spending life changing amounts of money on the proviso that you will get a job which right now doesn't exist.
Good luck to all the CTC guys.
If you truly want this then go for it! Listen to the people who have done it successfully and are living the dream.
However.
The debt is big and it takes a long time to pay it off. Which is fine, if you get a job quick and/or your airline doesn't totally exploit you, as my employers have just done with 22 CTC cadets.
I'm not being negative or a miserable git, I'm just telling it how it is, from a view inside the industry. No-one knows how long this downturn will last. By all means give CTC a go, but all this "follow your dream" and "go for it" stuff is being given to you by guys who are understandably buoyant at the prospect of New Zealand. The cold hard fact is that this is a seriously bad time to be spending life changing amounts of money on the proviso that you will get a job which right now doesn't exist.
Good luck to all the CTC guys.
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I kind of agree with a few of the "negative" posts on here. I think it’s important to have perspective and varied inputs. Otherwise you can develop rose tinted vision!
While Day Dreamer does seem to have a thing about CTC I do agree with one thing he said, all that matters is bottom line to them. They are not training you out of the goodness of their hearts. They do not have some great philanthropic reason to get you a (f)ATPL.
However keeping the bottom line in the black means looking after your cadets! They need to look after you and place good quality people to keep the brand looking good and to keep people coming through the door.
I have said this before, now is not a time to rush in to anything and I think CTC are going to hit hard times placing people but I still think you are safer with CTC than other training providers. No-one is going to find it easy placing people in the next year or so but I reckon CTC will find it less difficult!
I don't think it is a debate on CTC or someone else, more to start now or wait a while. There are cheaper alternatives out there but I do think with CTC you pay a bit more for a slightly better chance of getting a jet job. Only you can decide if it is worth spending the extra money to increase your chances of employment.
I also think it’s important to have negative posts because reading them might put some people off starting training. They might not think the risk is worth it. Others however will read all the doom and gloom and think I still want to do it. That’s great because those are the ones we need in aviation. The truly committed ones. The ones that really want it.
All I would say to those individuals though is think through your finances, now and in the future. Even when placed with an airline (for the 6 months while still with CTC) think about cars, houses etc. Don't over commit etc.
If you really really want it, still start with CTC but think it through very carefully. If you have any nagging doubts don’t bother. You will probably realise you made the right decision in the long run.
Whatever you do, don't rush in. Read the positive "just go for it posts" but also read the negative ones. Think about it all carefully.
If you were about to fly an approach and there was a huge CB sat on 5 mile final would you press on with a positive attitude or would you listen to some negative info and delay starting the approach till things improve??
Whatever you do, do it armed with all the information available so you can make an informed decision! You never know, starting now could place you nicely for an industry upturn but no-one really knows what will happen. It could get better, it could get much worse. What happens if you are in the hold pool for 12 months??? Plan for the worst case.
P.S it is well worth it when you do make it (long days and shift work not withstanding!!)
P.P.S I now have cramp from my longest post ever!!
While Day Dreamer does seem to have a thing about CTC I do agree with one thing he said, all that matters is bottom line to them. They are not training you out of the goodness of their hearts. They do not have some great philanthropic reason to get you a (f)ATPL.
However keeping the bottom line in the black means looking after your cadets! They need to look after you and place good quality people to keep the brand looking good and to keep people coming through the door.
I have said this before, now is not a time to rush in to anything and I think CTC are going to hit hard times placing people but I still think you are safer with CTC than other training providers. No-one is going to find it easy placing people in the next year or so but I reckon CTC will find it less difficult!
I don't think it is a debate on CTC or someone else, more to start now or wait a while. There are cheaper alternatives out there but I do think with CTC you pay a bit more for a slightly better chance of getting a jet job. Only you can decide if it is worth spending the extra money to increase your chances of employment.
I also think it’s important to have negative posts because reading them might put some people off starting training. They might not think the risk is worth it. Others however will read all the doom and gloom and think I still want to do it. That’s great because those are the ones we need in aviation. The truly committed ones. The ones that really want it.
All I would say to those individuals though is think through your finances, now and in the future. Even when placed with an airline (for the 6 months while still with CTC) think about cars, houses etc. Don't over commit etc.
If you really really want it, still start with CTC but think it through very carefully. If you have any nagging doubts don’t bother. You will probably realise you made the right decision in the long run.
Whatever you do, don't rush in. Read the positive "just go for it posts" but also read the negative ones. Think about it all carefully.
If you were about to fly an approach and there was a huge CB sat on 5 mile final would you press on with a positive attitude or would you listen to some negative info and delay starting the approach till things improve??
Whatever you do, do it armed with all the information available so you can make an informed decision! You never know, starting now could place you nicely for an industry upturn but no-one really knows what will happen. It could get better, it could get much worse. What happens if you are in the hold pool for 12 months??? Plan for the worst case.
P.S it is well worth it when you do make it (long days and shift work not withstanding!!)
P.P.S I now have cramp from my longest post ever!!
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"If you were about to fly an approach and there was a huge CB sat on 5 mile final would you press on with a positive attitude or would you listen to some negative info and delay starting the approach till things improve??"
huge Cilla Blacks on 5 mile finals are impossible to remove forever, they are like a cancer, you think youve got rid of the ginger scouser, but then no - Blind Date starts on prime time TV on saturday nights, right after gladiators. Then whe she decides she's bled the dessert dry on that occasion, you think 'great, she's
gone', but no, she does a cheap advert for life insurance that will forever remain on daytime TV, just inbetween property ladder and countdown and filling her up with daily royalties so she can propergate her jewellry collection. How am i supposed to get my fill of pretentious etymology and beer-mat mortgage advice now eh?
See what you've gone and done?
I hope you're all pleased
huge Cilla Blacks on 5 mile finals are impossible to remove forever, they are like a cancer, you think youve got rid of the ginger scouser, but then no - Blind Date starts on prime time TV on saturday nights, right after gladiators. Then whe she decides she's bled the dessert dry on that occasion, you think 'great, she's
gone', but no, she does a cheap advert for life insurance that will forever remain on daytime TV, just inbetween property ladder and countdown and filling her up with daily royalties so she can propergate her jewellry collection. How am i supposed to get my fill of pretentious etymology and beer-mat mortgage advice now eh?See what you've gone and done?
I hope you're all pleased
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10 October 2008
DHL AIR UK AND EASYJET SWITZERLAND NEW CTC WINGS PARTNER AIRLINES
CTC Wings now enjoys partnerships with ten major airlines around the world, with the new addition of DHL Air
and easyJet Switzerland.
These two join CTC’s long-standing partner airlines British Airways, CityJet, easyJet, Jet2.com, Jetstar Pacific,
Monarch, Thomas Cook and Thomsonfly to provide even greater opportunity for the 168 cadet pilots being trained
annually by CTC Aviation.
To date, 100% of CTC Wings cadets have obtained a job as an airline pilot with one of the company’s partner
airlines upon successful completion of training.
The initial group of DHL Air cadets commence training at CTC’s Crew Training Centre-Hamilton this month.
The first easyJet Switzerland CTC Wings pilot is close to completion of his Airbus A319 type-rating training at
CTC’s full flight simulator facilities near Southampton, UK and will begin line training in Geneva shortly.
Lee Woodward, Head of CTC Wings and Executive Director for CTC, said: “Whilst we have been consistently
placing pilots with our partner airlines over the past five years, it is a significant development for CTC Wings and a
true reflection of the calibre of our cadets that DHL has joined CityJet in preselecting their pilots from the outset.
“easyJet Switzerland operates independently of the UK organisation. They were impressed by the our cadets and
this led to a request for us to supply cadets to the Swiss operation direct. We look forward to placing more pilots
with both DHL Air and easyJet Switzerland in the near future as well as continuing our supply to our long standing
partners.”
CTC has been providing training support for both DHL and easyJet Switzerland through their Type Rating
Training Organisation (TRTO) operation for several years. This new partnerships with CTC Wings is seen as a
strengthening of already established relationships.
Tom Mackle, Director Flight Operations for DHL Air said: “CTC has a great reputation for quality training and
developing innovative solutions. We are working to crew a growing fleet over the next couple of years and will be
looking to resource this with a combination of direct entry and cadet pilots. The CTC Wings pilots will form a
significant part of our future crew composition.”
Licensed pilots from easyJet Switzerland have attended a variety of training courses with CTC over the years;
from type-ratings, through command skills development and Instructor training to
Examiner Standardisation. It is a natural transition for CTC to supply cadets to the airline into the future.
For more information log on to AIRLINE PILOT TRAINING or CTC Aviation Group plc - Home
ENDS
http://www.ctcwings.co.nz/pdfs/news/...gs_10oct08.pdf
DHL AIR UK AND EASYJET SWITZERLAND NEW CTC WINGS PARTNER AIRLINES
CTC Wings now enjoys partnerships with ten major airlines around the world, with the new addition of DHL Air
and easyJet Switzerland.
These two join CTC’s long-standing partner airlines British Airways, CityJet, easyJet, Jet2.com, Jetstar Pacific,
Monarch, Thomas Cook and Thomsonfly to provide even greater opportunity for the 168 cadet pilots being trained
annually by CTC Aviation.
To date, 100% of CTC Wings cadets have obtained a job as an airline pilot with one of the company’s partner
airlines upon successful completion of training.
The initial group of DHL Air cadets commence training at CTC’s Crew Training Centre-Hamilton this month.
The first easyJet Switzerland CTC Wings pilot is close to completion of his Airbus A319 type-rating training at
CTC’s full flight simulator facilities near Southampton, UK and will begin line training in Geneva shortly.
Lee Woodward, Head of CTC Wings and Executive Director for CTC, said: “Whilst we have been consistently
placing pilots with our partner airlines over the past five years, it is a significant development for CTC Wings and a
true reflection of the calibre of our cadets that DHL has joined CityJet in preselecting their pilots from the outset.
“easyJet Switzerland operates independently of the UK organisation. They were impressed by the our cadets and
this led to a request for us to supply cadets to the Swiss operation direct. We look forward to placing more pilots
with both DHL Air and easyJet Switzerland in the near future as well as continuing our supply to our long standing
partners.”
CTC has been providing training support for both DHL and easyJet Switzerland through their Type Rating
Training Organisation (TRTO) operation for several years. This new partnerships with CTC Wings is seen as a
strengthening of already established relationships.
Tom Mackle, Director Flight Operations for DHL Air said: “CTC has a great reputation for quality training and
developing innovative solutions. We are working to crew a growing fleet over the next couple of years and will be
looking to resource this with a combination of direct entry and cadet pilots. The CTC Wings pilots will form a
significant part of our future crew composition.”
Licensed pilots from easyJet Switzerland have attended a variety of training courses with CTC over the years;
from type-ratings, through command skills development and Instructor training to
Examiner Standardisation. It is a natural transition for CTC to supply cadets to the airline into the future.
For more information log on to AIRLINE PILOT TRAINING or CTC Aviation Group plc - Home
ENDS
http://www.ctcwings.co.nz/pdfs/news/...gs_10oct08.pdf
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I have heard but not had confirmed that Monarch have followed easyJets lead in declining to take on their CTC cadets currently on 6 months initial trial.
Guys, do not delude yourselves. There are hundreds of CTC cadets either being returned, in the pool or in the training system. If no airline steps forward in 2009 and takes a big chunky number of them then I very much doubt anyone will be keeping anyone current.
Job prospects are a matter of opinion; the debt is real.
WWW
Guys, do not delude yourselves. There are hundreds of CTC cadets either being returned, in the pool or in the training system. If no airline steps forward in 2009 and takes a big chunky number of them then I very much doubt anyone will be keeping anyone current.
Job prospects are a matter of opinion; the debt is real.
WWW
captainflash - no its not a cut and paste. Its a paraphrase of Meryn Kings wrly accurate statement to the Commons committe when discussing house prices; that values are a matter of opinion but the debt is real.
If there's one thing sadder than me spending time warning Wannabes of the tragic mistakes they may shortly take its you popping up every couple of weeks to have a go at me for doing so. On Oct 10th you said:
You were shot down for being both entirely mistaken and rude. So why don't you change the friggin record, pal?
Share with us just where you think the CTC cadets will be finding employment in 2009. Contruct an argument as to why 12 months from now is going to be a good time for job hunting. Explain how the worst crisis Western commercial aviation has seen for a generation is actually nothing to worry Wannabes about.
Go on.
Thought not.
WWW
If there's one thing sadder than me spending time warning Wannabes of the tragic mistakes they may shortly take its you popping up every couple of weeks to have a go at me for doing so. On Oct 10th you said:
Mr WWW must have made a typo, 30BC is more of the realm when he was born.
Although granted, he knows his stuff on the most part, and he does indeed make many good points, it is fair to say after considering his posts, that he is a PESTIMISTIC type of chap.
He's done it the hard way, been an instructor for years, worked his way up etc, and bollocks to anyone trying to do it any other way. The world is doomed, you'll never get a job, become a train driver brigade, things aren't as good these days as they were in the past, I've been around and see things before so I must be right, in summary a stale old fart stuck in his ways, and unopen to change or evolving with the times.
WWW: do you live with you mother?
Although granted, he knows his stuff on the most part, and he does indeed make many good points, it is fair to say after considering his posts, that he is a PESTIMISTIC type of chap.
He's done it the hard way, been an instructor for years, worked his way up etc, and bollocks to anyone trying to do it any other way. The world is doomed, you'll never get a job, become a train driver brigade, things aren't as good these days as they were in the past, I've been around and see things before so I must be right, in summary a stale old fart stuck in his ways, and unopen to change or evolving with the times.
WWW: do you live with you mother?
You were shot down for being both entirely mistaken and rude. So why don't you change the friggin record, pal?
Share with us just where you think the CTC cadets will be finding employment in 2009. Contruct an argument as to why 12 months from now is going to be a good time for job hunting. Explain how the worst crisis Western commercial aviation has seen for a generation is actually nothing to worry Wannabes about.
Go on.
Thought not.
WWW
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Captain Flash
If you ever make it to easyJet when you are done with CTC and fly with the welshman in the flesh, you will find he is very supportive of the cadets.
Also you might want to have a chat with the ctc guys who have been sent packing by easyJet recently before you go singing CTC praises. Their treatment leaves a lot to be desired and though CTC cannot be blamed for the current problems, it would appear not a great deal is being done to support them either. Easyjet have behaved disgracefully, and to my mind (ex-ctc and now easyjet) CTC have let them down massively.
If you ever make it to easyJet when you are done with CTC and fly with the welshman in the flesh, you will find he is very supportive of the cadets.
Also you might want to have a chat with the ctc guys who have been sent packing by easyJet recently before you go singing CTC praises. Their treatment leaves a lot to be desired and though CTC cannot be blamed for the current problems, it would appear not a great deal is being done to support them either. Easyjet have behaved disgracefully, and to my mind (ex-ctc and now easyjet) CTC have let them down massively.
Jerry's final thought...
I've never had the pleasure of meeting anyone on these forums. I just cant understand how one can get angry with people who are only trying to help. Do people give advice with a hidden agenda? I doubt it. WWW or anyone alike don't have reasons to want to put people off training for their own benefit. It's not like he's making money from doing it!
"Be careful who's advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it"
And remember, if you don't like what you hear, be mature, polite and ignore it. Just don't throw it back in their faces, it's not nice.
S88
"Be careful who's advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it"
And remember, if you don't like what you hear, be mature, polite and ignore it. Just don't throw it back in their faces, it's not nice.
S88
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Where did this thread all go wrong? Why is it now dominated by whining over-sensitive types who have far too many battles to fight and not enough ammunition?
In true Pprune style, this thread has degraded from a useful resource for all those who are interested in CTC Wings, into a amateurish debate on economics, a mud slinging match, a more or less typical Pprune battle of 'wits' and oneupmanship.
Please, if you wish to argue this out with WWW, take it to the 'Downturn upon us' thread. For all the sh*t he cops for on these threads for being a 'whinger', he appears to have a better understanding of our economy than most.
Conversely, this is not a thread full of children that requires an 'adult' to step in and tell us how the world works, we can for the most part make a reasoned decision by our oown means. We need no knights in shining armour; yes we want to be informed, but not preached at in every thread we happen upon.
And while I'm here, what is the obsession with always having the last word? Please understand when a particular debate has reached a close, recognise when an exchange has no further value and have some consideration for those who have to sift through your bickering to find the useful information.
In true Pprune style, this thread has degraded from a useful resource for all those who are interested in CTC Wings, into a amateurish debate on economics, a mud slinging match, a more or less typical Pprune battle of 'wits' and oneupmanship.
Please, if you wish to argue this out with WWW, take it to the 'Downturn upon us' thread. For all the sh*t he cops for on these threads for being a 'whinger', he appears to have a better understanding of our economy than most.
Conversely, this is not a thread full of children that requires an 'adult' to step in and tell us how the world works, we can for the most part make a reasoned decision by our oown means. We need no knights in shining armour; yes we want to be informed, but not preached at in every thread we happen upon.
And while I'm here, what is the obsession with always having the last word? Please understand when a particular debate has reached a close, recognise when an exchange has no further value and have some consideration for those who have to sift through your bickering to find the useful information.
The original MkI thread had 1515 posts and this is the 2,502 post on the MkII. That's getting close to a Wannabe record.
Peace has been declared following the last 72hrs of hostilities and I want nothing more than for this thread to return to being a useful resource for current and prospective CTC cadets.
Many thanks to all contributors. Some recent posts have been edited or deleted, apologies made and hands have been shaken so the thread may make little sense to those arriving for the first time.
WWW
Peace has been declared following the last 72hrs of hostilities and I want nothing more than for this thread to return to being a useful resource for current and prospective CTC cadets.
Many thanks to all contributors. Some recent posts have been edited or deleted, apologies made and hands have been shaken so the thread may make little sense to those arriving for the first time.
WWW