flightless_bird

Cpt SC, I hate to be the devil's advocate here but my understanding is the reason that CTC cadets only get paid £1000 for the first six months is that the remainder of their salary is used by the airline to pay CTC for the cadets' type rating. So you are in effect funding your own type rating (but at a much reduced rate so in a lot of ways it is still a good thing).

And I believe that there is a clause in the contract which prevents cadets declaring themselves bankrupt to avoid their loans.

no sponsor

If you're bankrupt, you're bankrupt - you cannot pay your creditors. It is for a judge to decide and stamp your bankruptcy petition, not CTC! The judge may of course reject your application.

However, the 12 months following your bankruptcy can see the court imposing a repayment program if you do then start earning money of sufficient quantities which they consider should be paid to your creditors. That can last up to 5 years.

ctctim

in a way im glad im doing it in new zealand cos we get the student loans etc and no matter what happens we just paying a percentage of our salary back to the govt till payed off, although would love to be able to get type rating like you guys.

another few questions....

how long into the ground school will i start flying? are us kiwis in classes with the british people?

cheeeers for the help.

Aerospace101

I see the ctc cadets are not just landing themselves in huge amounts of debt but are landing in vast amounts of SH*T

sharpclassic

A few things all prospective CTCers should know.

1. It is not a sponsored scheme.

From the CTC Wings Cadet site...
Total Bo**ocks. You pay £60,000, or whatever it is these days. IF (and I'll come to this later) you get a permanent job at the end, your salary is £12,000 a year less than the normal F/O salary which goes to paying back your loan.... plus interest. You are paying for your training. End of.

2. CTC have created this pilot excess themselves.
Once upon a time, there were 4-6 cadets a course. Now there are 16 (give or take a few). In the current climate, it would be hard enough placing 4 cadets a month, let alone 16. Money talks.

3. The scheme is designed for airlines to take on dirt cheap pilots for 6 months and enable them to dump them at the end should they so desire. If the airline then wants more pilots, they can take a new batch of dirt cheap pilots and keep this cycle going.

End result? A rapidly growing pile of type rated pilots with 400hrs on type with little to no job prospects anywhere else. It is the reality. It's happening now. Wake up to it.

4. Wings iCP is a money making product using their currently good name.
Chief Pilot: So you went through CTC?
Cadet: Yes.
Chief Pilot: So did you do the Wings Cadet or Wings iCP?
Cadet: iCP
Chief Pilot: Why?
Cadet:...................................?

I am stating facts, not opinions. Feel free to deduce any opinions that you wish.

ctctim

cheers for that mate much appreciated, looking forward to life down there! hopefully it aint too frustrating on the ground just wanting to fly haha.

is this eagle placement just a one off or is it looking to be continued? i heard from a pilot that they might have mucked up a lil bit in the process? hope not but good on them for getting through!

flightless_bird

Sorry, I meant the loan contract with the bank, not the training contract with CTC so you are right: it is not up to CTC to decide whether you are bankrupt or not.

flightless_bird

sharpclassic, you are right, even though CTC say that the scheme is sponsored in my mind it is not. You do indeed pay for your training and your salary (before the amount given to you for bond repayment) is £12,000 less per year. However at the same time you get a lot more training for your for £60,000 than you have actually paid for: namely the Airline Qualification Course (containing the Multicrew Co-operation Course and the Jet Orientation Course) and the cheap type-rating so you could argue that there is a sponsorship aspect there.

I do have to disagree with you with regards to your third point though. Apparently easyJet is actually treating the cadets they have not been able to offer positions to after their line training pretty well. While they are indeed not currently able to hire them currently they are continuing to pay them the portion of their salary which is used to repay their bond (£1,000 a month) and have said that they will offer them positions again when things pick up after the winter. This to me doesn't sound like an airline just dumping cadets in able to take up a new batch of dirt cheap pilots.

jaimz1982

Sharpclassic

'4. Wings iCP is a money making product using their currently good name.
Chief Pilot: So you went through CTC?
Cadet: Yes.
Chief Pilot: So did you do the Wings Cadet or Wings iCP?
Cadet: iCP
Chief Pilot: Why?
Cadet:...................................?'

Are you trying to ambigously say somethng? Do you have experience of this response?

I'm on the ICP scheme and quite proud of it. If I get that question then I will simply say I missed the maths by 2 questions, but was offered the ICP scheme. I then took it because I feel / felt that CTC would give me the best training from the FTO's available.

I would like to think that an employer would look at your training record as a whole and not the fact you missed one scheme by a very small margin.

sharpclassic

Flightless Bird,

Maybe so, but if EZY are unable to offer these guys full time contracts, why are a number of 'pay-to-fly' pilots being put throught their line training at this moment?


Jaimz,

All im saying is that the iCP scheme is no different from any other training school in the world. You pay your money, you get your licence.

Tommy_uk

Anyone been to the new phase 2/3 selection day in the past couple of months?

EvelcyclopS

did mine in september, gonna reapply in early march. good day, i recommend you stay there overnight so your as fresha s you can be , you'll also get some very helpful tips off some very nice people.

flightless_bird

I do not know about this (and try to only talk about things that I do know about so that PPRuNe remains a useful resourse). One possibility though is that they have a contract with these pilots who are paying for their line training so are obliged to continue with their training even if they would rather it were the CTC cadets flying in their place but as I said I am not sure, sorry.

no sponsor

Those ATP guys and gals are a source of revenue for the airline. Although CTC cadets are cheaper than direct entry F/Os, the ATP cadets are making the airline money, so why would they stop offering seats which people pay for, even if they are at the pointy end?

Melnaboo

Maybe you think it is an abuse, but for a lot of us is the unique chance in our lifes to become an airline pilot.

From my point of view, CTC Wings is the people who will make my dream become real (if I am lucky), since I am in my reapplication.

Have good flights.

Gary Lager

That's with the proviso that if they agree to this deal then all other contracts/deals with EZY & CTC are considered expired.

Translation: we think you would have a chance of winning if you took us/CTC to court for breach of contract, so we're hoping you're desperate enough to take a pathetic amount of money to go away and keep quiet instead of fighting. Oh and easyJet can cancel this deal at any time (like, for instance, the week after you sign it and before you get any cash).

How does it sound like they're treating people now?

clear prop!!!

You know, when you analise these bonds, are they really not a rip off?

Are the airlines not claiming training grants, government subsidies, huge volume discounts from the training organisations etc etc then, adding admin charges etc etc, not to mention claiming back the VAT and setting the training cost off against profit and therefore corporation tax (if, they are in profit!!)

I wonder what the true cost of your bond really is!!

Just a thought!!

jaimz1982

Hi can some one PM me with the planes that are flown in New Zealand,

I've heard it's Cessnas and Robins, if so which ones?

Any helps appreciated,

Thanks

Jim

One9iner

Not too sure which Robins & Cessnas but they also have Diamond DA40 and the DA42 Twinstar

Ronnie1982

Hi Clear prop!!!

Just a few queries about your post above:

• What training grants are you referring to?
• Which government subsidies are available to airlines for pilot training?
• How can the airlines get a volume discount from something they don't pay for?
• To offset a cost against corporation tax, you need to spend something; if the airlines are not paying for the training, they cannot offset the costs, can they?
• To reclaim VAT, an VAT registered organisation must first have paid the VAT as an input tax. Are the airlines paying VAT; if so, what on? If they are, then the net effect will be nil as thy will reclaim it, so what is the benefit to them?
• What is included in the "etc, etc"?

Not a journalist are you? Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.