Ryanair
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Scandinavian Aviation Academy
Please, any feedback about the SAA?
How is the Ryanair assesment? and the MCC?
Among CAE, SAA makes this short of assesments for Ryan SSTR cadets.
Is there a pilot pool after the complection of the process?
Because on Ryanair´s webpage, says this:
Pilot Recruitment Update - CO - PILOTS
Our First Officer training courses for 2006 are now fully subscribed. Our next First Officer training courses will commence in April 2007. We are currently inviting applications from 737 type rated First Officers looking to commence training courses from April 2007 onwards.
We have just 25 places left on courses for Captains this year. If you are interested in applying as a Captain please forward your CV to [email protected] Applications are dealt with on a first come, first served basis. Type rating on the 737-800 is a decided advantage.Courses for cadets will commence in January 2007 at Ryanair approved schools. Applications should be made directly to the schools.
thanks in advance, and good luck!!!
Ramon
How is the Ryanair assesment? and the MCC?
Among CAE, SAA makes this short of assesments for Ryan SSTR cadets.
Is there a pilot pool after the complection of the process?
Because on Ryanair´s webpage, says this:
Pilot Recruitment Update - CO - PILOTS
Our First Officer training courses for 2006 are now fully subscribed. Our next First Officer training courses will commence in April 2007. We are currently inviting applications from 737 type rated First Officers looking to commence training courses from April 2007 onwards.
We have just 25 places left on courses for Captains this year. If you are interested in applying as a Captain please forward your CV to [email protected] Applications are dealt with on a first come, first served basis. Type rating on the 737-800 is a decided advantage.Courses for cadets will commence in January 2007 at Ryanair approved schools. Applications should be made directly to the schools.
thanks in advance, and good luck!!!
Ramon
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Ryanair low hour Cadets BEWARE!! - Brookfields!!
Hi guys,
First Off, moderator, PLEASE dont merge this with other threads. This is really important for people wanting to get into Ryanair and not wanting to be taken for a ride and ripped off.
Just though I would write a post on here to see if anyone else is having issues like me with Ryanair and some organisation called Brookfields Aviation.
Seems to me there is a whole lot of confusion about this, and people are making money off low hours cadets trying to get their first job.
If you have been to Parc to do your MCC, you will most likely have met a guy called Se Pardy. He is the guy who runs a company called SimTech, who haev the B737-200 sim that you do the MCC course in at the Aer Lingus building in Dublin.
Once you have completed the training, he will forward your details onto a chap called Declan Dooney at Brookfields Aviation. These guys will then organise an interview with Ryanair at East Mids for you.
At this point, you may get a a call from Se telling you not to go for the first date offered to you, because you will need to go back to Dublin to do EXTRA training in the B737-200 sim, (that his company runs), at a cost of 400 Euro/hour. On average you will do 4-5 hours, so thats effectively £1000. It really isnt needed to be able to pass the East Mids interview. 20 hours for the MCC is more then enough!
Ok, so we are now at the interview at East Mids. This consists of a Clacton 6B departure out of Luton, and then an NDB approach back in. Very easy stuff if you have managed to pass you IR.
In your interview, you will be asked where you would like to do your type rating, when you can start, and where you would like to be based after line training.
This is where it gets interesting!!
Ok. Within 3 hours of finishing the selection, if you are successful, a guy called Paul Deeves, who IS from Ryanair will email you saying congratulations, and then offer you a type rating start date. It will also state that the contracts will be sent to you on confirmation from you of when you want to start the type rating.
At the same time, you will recieve an email from Brookfields with contracts and details of security checks. This email will ask you again, where you want to do your type rating, and when you would like to start. It also tells you to sign the contracts and send them back as soon as possible.
The problem now facing you is, if you sign the Brookfields contract, you are an AGENCY pilot working for and agency, flying on a day to day contract with Ryanair, not a pilot for Ryanair direct.
The brookfield contract aslo states that you must pay them 4100 Euro per year to keep your B737-800 type rating current, (clause 17). You also will only be paid in Euros to an OUTSIDE UK back account, meaning you will have to sort your own tax out, meaning you will be, in their eyes, self employed.
This is the bit where they start making their money. If you sign the Brookfields contract, you are contracted to them for 5 years. Should you then be offered a job with Ryanair direct, (which is likely if you finish the 100 hours odd line training), then you can accept it, but only if you then pay Brookfields 2,500 Euro to buy yourself out of the contract, (Clause 18 on the contract).
In summery so far, If you sign a contract with Brookfields, you ARE NOT employed by Ryanair, and you will have to pay them 450 Euro for you currency of your B737 rating, (Non-refundable), and then if you go to be employed with Ryanair direct after your line training, 2,500 Euro to buy out the contract. You are now 3000 Euro out of pocket for NO REASON!! (not including the extra 1,500 Euro if you went back to Dublin for the pointless extra sim hours)
Ok, now for the scare stories, (if I havent bored you enough yet??)
When contacting you, Brookfields may tell you they are from Ryanair. They may also tell you on the phone that ALL pilots who will start working for Ryanair will be agency pilots on their books - NOT TRUE!.
The best one i have heard of so far, is a guy who has signed the 6 month training contract from Ryanair direct, (that will be sent to you once you have confirmed with Paul Deves the Type Rating start date), then was sent the contracts from Brookfields. He contacted them to find out what was going on. Brookfields then told him Ryanair had made a mistake, and that he should be on agency books. He was then told to write a letter to Ryanair Direct RESIGNING so he could then sign a Brookfields contract. The reason he was told to do this:-
"All pilots will do their line training under a Brookfields contract, then they will be offered a full time job from Ryanair, and transfer over" - NOT TRUE!!
Refer to what i wrote before, and clause 18 of the Brookfields contract:-
"If the pilot transfers from this contract to direct emplyment by Ryanair, then a fee of Euro 2,500 will be due from pilot to contractor"
Again, in summery, a nice little earner for Brookfields of 2,500 Euro because you signed their contract before Ryanair had time to send you a direct employment one.
Dont get me wrong. Being an agency pilot can and does work for some people, but if you are wanting to fly for Ryanair, just be very warey of what is going on. There are alot of people trying to make easy money out of you low hours guys because they know that you are desperate to get that first job.
My advice, always read the contracts, and contact ALL parties directly that are ever mentioned in a contract to confirm what you have written infornt of you is actually what should be happening, because once you have signed that contract, you are stuck with it.
Thanks for reading, and be careful guys. I've been stung, and I dont want other people falling into the same trap that some people are setting for inexperinced low hours pilots.
And again, moderator, please dont merge this with another thread. People wanting to go to Ryanair need to read this.
First Off, moderator, PLEASE dont merge this with other threads. This is really important for people wanting to get into Ryanair and not wanting to be taken for a ride and ripped off.
Just though I would write a post on here to see if anyone else is having issues like me with Ryanair and some organisation called Brookfields Aviation.
Seems to me there is a whole lot of confusion about this, and people are making money off low hours cadets trying to get their first job.
If you have been to Parc to do your MCC, you will most likely have met a guy called Se Pardy. He is the guy who runs a company called SimTech, who haev the B737-200 sim that you do the MCC course in at the Aer Lingus building in Dublin.
Once you have completed the training, he will forward your details onto a chap called Declan Dooney at Brookfields Aviation. These guys will then organise an interview with Ryanair at East Mids for you.
At this point, you may get a a call from Se telling you not to go for the first date offered to you, because you will need to go back to Dublin to do EXTRA training in the B737-200 sim, (that his company runs), at a cost of 400 Euro/hour. On average you will do 4-5 hours, so thats effectively £1000. It really isnt needed to be able to pass the East Mids interview. 20 hours for the MCC is more then enough!
Ok, so we are now at the interview at East Mids. This consists of a Clacton 6B departure out of Luton, and then an NDB approach back in. Very easy stuff if you have managed to pass you IR.
In your interview, you will be asked where you would like to do your type rating, when you can start, and where you would like to be based after line training.
This is where it gets interesting!!
Ok. Within 3 hours of finishing the selection, if you are successful, a guy called Paul Deeves, who IS from Ryanair will email you saying congratulations, and then offer you a type rating start date. It will also state that the contracts will be sent to you on confirmation from you of when you want to start the type rating.
At the same time, you will recieve an email from Brookfields with contracts and details of security checks. This email will ask you again, where you want to do your type rating, and when you would like to start. It also tells you to sign the contracts and send them back as soon as possible.
The problem now facing you is, if you sign the Brookfields contract, you are an AGENCY pilot working for and agency, flying on a day to day contract with Ryanair, not a pilot for Ryanair direct.
The brookfield contract aslo states that you must pay them 4100 Euro per year to keep your B737-800 type rating current, (clause 17). You also will only be paid in Euros to an OUTSIDE UK back account, meaning you will have to sort your own tax out, meaning you will be, in their eyes, self employed.
This is the bit where they start making their money. If you sign the Brookfields contract, you are contracted to them for 5 years. Should you then be offered a job with Ryanair direct, (which is likely if you finish the 100 hours odd line training), then you can accept it, but only if you then pay Brookfields 2,500 Euro to buy yourself out of the contract, (Clause 18 on the contract).
In summery so far, If you sign a contract with Brookfields, you ARE NOT employed by Ryanair, and you will have to pay them 450 Euro for you currency of your B737 rating, (Non-refundable), and then if you go to be employed with Ryanair direct after your line training, 2,500 Euro to buy out the contract. You are now 3000 Euro out of pocket for NO REASON!! (not including the extra 1,500 Euro if you went back to Dublin for the pointless extra sim hours)
Ok, now for the scare stories, (if I havent bored you enough yet??)
When contacting you, Brookfields may tell you they are from Ryanair. They may also tell you on the phone that ALL pilots who will start working for Ryanair will be agency pilots on their books - NOT TRUE!.
The best one i have heard of so far, is a guy who has signed the 6 month training contract from Ryanair direct, (that will be sent to you once you have confirmed with Paul Deves the Type Rating start date), then was sent the contracts from Brookfields. He contacted them to find out what was going on. Brookfields then told him Ryanair had made a mistake, and that he should be on agency books. He was then told to write a letter to Ryanair Direct RESIGNING so he could then sign a Brookfields contract. The reason he was told to do this:-
"All pilots will do their line training under a Brookfields contract, then they will be offered a full time job from Ryanair, and transfer over" - NOT TRUE!!
Refer to what i wrote before, and clause 18 of the Brookfields contract:-
"If the pilot transfers from this contract to direct emplyment by Ryanair, then a fee of Euro 2,500 will be due from pilot to contractor"
Again, in summery, a nice little earner for Brookfields of 2,500 Euro because you signed their contract before Ryanair had time to send you a direct employment one.
Dont get me wrong. Being an agency pilot can and does work for some people, but if you are wanting to fly for Ryanair, just be very warey of what is going on. There are alot of people trying to make easy money out of you low hours guys because they know that you are desperate to get that first job.
My advice, always read the contracts, and contact ALL parties directly that are ever mentioned in a contract to confirm what you have written infornt of you is actually what should be happening, because once you have signed that contract, you are stuck with it.
Thanks for reading, and be careful guys. I've been stung, and I dont want other people falling into the same trap that some people are setting for inexperinced low hours pilots.
And again, moderator, please dont merge this with another thread. People wanting to go to Ryanair need to read this.
Thank you man . I'm certain it will help some of us paying attention to those things
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Seems to me there is a whole lot of confusion about this, and people are making money off low hours cadets trying to get their first job.
Once you have completed the training, he will forward your details onto a chap called Declan Dooney at Brookfields Aviation.
I still can't believe Ryanair has a waiting list of low hour pilots to join. I know 4 low hours who went to Ryan and all have left due to gross unhappiness.
Perhaps that's why Ryanair make it so financially punitive to join. Only the committed to apply perhaps?
Last edited by Craggenmore; 2nd Dec 2006 at 15:52.
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Ryan were quite open about the two methods of working for them at their recent employment seminars, contract pilot via Brookfield or staff pilot with Ryanair. The contract pilots apparently earn around 10k more per annum, to offset their lower base stability. However, it does not affect seniority/command prospects.
From what was said, this is certainly not a new arrangement, nor a temporary measure.
From what was said, this is certainly not a new arrangement, nor a temporary measure.
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My money would be on that MOL prob owns brookfields, if not a member of the "family" does it seems to be the way he operates. I think you will find he owns the ryanair sims and the cabin crew "agencies."
Be very very very very careful with anything to do with ryanair, I have heard of several horror stories.
Be very very very very careful with anything to do with ryanair, I have heard of several horror stories.
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Originally Posted by
[B
[B
I still can't believe Ryanair has a waiting list of low hour pilots to join. I know 4 low hours who went to Ryan and all have left due to gross unhappiness.
Perhaps that's why Ryanair make it so financially punitive to join. Only the committed to apply perhaps?[/B]
Perhaps that's why Ryanair make it so financially punitive to join. Only the committed to apply perhaps?[/B]
As a newly qualifed atpl myself who has not yet gotten a job but have a fair understanding of the aviation business.
How is ryanair able to cope with so many people leaving and absorbing new trainees. You dont need to be a genius to figure out that thier human resourses department must be very chaotic or constantly working overtime.
Is it oleary's fault that the company is like this as long as they produce profits ( the end justifies the means approach) or the management actually or genuinely wants to treat pilots better but are held hostage by the owners disdain for pilots.
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As a Cadet you do not have to pay EURO 2500 to leave a Brookfields contract and work on a Ryanair company contract. My son has done this and did not have to pay.
The pay on Brookfields for a Cadet is good. Better than working for Ryanair as you get paid gross and if you set it up correct can claim back training costs against from your type rating against tax you self declare.
The pay on Brookfields for a Cadet is good. Better than working for Ryanair as you get paid gross and if you set it up correct can claim back training costs against from your type rating against tax you self declare.
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As a Cadet you do not have to pay EURO 2500 to leave a Brookfields contract and work on a Ryanair company contract. My son has done this and did not have to pay.
The pay on Brookfields for a Cadet is good. Better than working for Ryanair as you get paid gross and if you set it up correct can claim back training costs against from your type rating against tax you self declare.
The pay on Brookfields for a Cadet is good. Better than working for Ryanair as you get paid gross and if you set it up correct can claim back training costs against from your type rating against tax you self declare.
Brookfields pay you E45 for the first 3 months, then for the following 9 months its E65, and then it goes to E75 per hour gross. NO FLIGHT PAY added ontop, and you MUST be paid into a forign bank account, and then deal with your own tax. Dont forget you have to then take E5 per hour out of that for the Non-refundable recurrancy training on your B737 rating.
As for claiming the tax back on your type rating. I am checking to see whether because you are purchasing a service from outside the country of residency, you should be able to claim the VAT back anyway. I'll keep you guys posted.
As for Brookfields operating like this, I wonder whether Ryanair themselves realise how bad they are getting. Having someone phoning from an agency telling you that they are infact Ryanair, and then telling you that there is no other option other then to sign a Brookfields contract to be able to fly for them. It is giving Ryanair a really bad name.
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Hmm, but don't forget that these 'components' (Parc, Brookfields, Ryanair) are nevertheless channels through which a new fATPL can still have a fighhting chance to get that first job. Indeed you might well have to pay your way but then again if the demand is there why shouldn't they charge a reasonable fee for administering the whole process. They are not a government funded body there to assist new wannabes to onto the first rung of the ladder, if they were they'd be a darn sight worse for sure! (2 year waiting list, all of the budget spent on a lousy IT system).
The extra simulator hours are debatable perhaps you need them, maybe you don't but for any prospective job you can't and shouldn't take any chances. Even if you fail to get that job at least you have learned something and with that extra training know you're prepared for the next hurdle.
We would all like to go through life with the minimum of cost and fuss but when embarking on something so strategic we can't afford to be so lean in our preparations. There are ample opportunities for us to fall short and then wonder "why didn't I just take the more conservative route instead of a chancey shortcut, what was the rush?". Of course this doesn't work for everyone but it all boils down to what you can afford to loose, time, money, opportunity, esteem, etc?
Good luck chaps and all the best
The extra simulator hours are debatable perhaps you need them, maybe you don't but for any prospective job you can't and shouldn't take any chances. Even if you fail to get that job at least you have learned something and with that extra training know you're prepared for the next hurdle.
We would all like to go through life with the minimum of cost and fuss but when embarking on something so strategic we can't afford to be so lean in our preparations. There are ample opportunities for us to fall short and then wonder "why didn't I just take the more conservative route instead of a chancey shortcut, what was the rush?". Of course this doesn't work for everyone but it all boils down to what you can afford to loose, time, money, opportunity, esteem, etc?
Good luck chaps and all the best
Last edited by boogie-nicey; 4th Dec 2006 at 16:11.