Ryanair

[cessna l plate]

I have a question for you guys based on the previous post. Although not a fan of FR at all, and a humble student ppl with any potential to get into a boeing now removed, I have a problem with comments like the previous post.

Paying for own uniforms, type ratings, food and water. What is your problem? I wrk in aviation, but on the ground, sadly, and the only consession my company make is a new pair of safety boots every year. I have to buy my own lunch, pay for any training courses I need ( I am paying for my own ppl even though it will be used for business travelling where I can) I paid for my own CPC and my own HGV 1, and buy my own clothes. I am not poorly looked after, I have had this wherever I have worked.

Please stop castigating FR for these practices, although expensive at times and not in line with other carriers, they are a norm in the real world working enviroment. Get over it, don't like it then apply to BA!

[-8AS]

Turn down an interview for an airline to pay for a type rating on an A320 with no guarantee of a job?!?!???!!!

[fast & fat]

to FO JimmieJames

Have to say that I think you are be exceptionally foolish to turn down an interview in this game. You are basically going to pay for your TR as a low hours cadet or someone with low hours commercial experience. It makes more sense to pay for a type rating with a guaranteed job at the end of it, than to do a Generic Airbus TR not to any companies SOPs. I know of a guy who did precisely the same thing, paid for a TR and yes it got him an interview but the airline said that they required him to redo the same airbus TR with their SOPS.

As a rule the people who slag off Ryanair dont actually work for them and dont really know what its like on the inside. The fact is you are flying a fantastic new 737-800, superb roster and by the second year (if your a low hours cadet) your are paid more than a cadet in any other airline and if you join as a FO you are paid decent salary for them first day of your typerating.

You are also working for the fastest expanding airline in europe if not the world who are already renewing their 737-800's once they are 6 years old. They are going to recruit another 600 pilots over the next 3 years, providing great job security for pilots in a volatile market. Their terms and conditions cannot be as bad as you suggest considering that soo many pilots already work for them and soo many more are joining.

Yes you do pay for things like your licence, medical, uniform, your own tea bags but the fact is the company more than compensates you by paying you much more than other airlines where these things are provided, so depending on how you look at it, these things are pretty minor. Its easy to find fault but over all how big a deal is it???

The fact is ryanair is a straight talking fast paced no nonsence company who are currently the most successful and profitable low cost airline due to their down to earth hard working attitude.

Fair play to them! and all who work for them!

[RogerIrrelevant69]

fast & fat,

Pity that. In the first paragraph of your reply you started out with good advice on the TR front. But then it quickly degenerated into a rant about how Ryanair is in fact the best airline in the world to work for.

Newcomers to this site and those ignorant of both the many court cases (all lost by FR) and many articles in the aviation press may choose to go along with the official FR party line. I however do not.

The impression I get is that while yes there is a queue a mile long of low-hours and TP guys wanting to get into FR, many will be out the door as soon as they get a few years under their belt flying the 738's.

[DTYSAPCO]

Just had an email saying that I need to bring a credit card and £252

[fast & fat]

Originally Posted by RogerIrrelevant69

fast & fat,

The impression I get is that while yes there is a queue a mile long of low-hours and TP guys wanting to get into FR, many will be out the door as soon as they get a few years under their belt flying the 738's.

You say "the impression I get" thats the problem with so many posts, people get an inpression or have "a view" of ryanair. Bad news makes headlines, but good news goes untold. Ryanair fly 700 flights a day, that requires a lot of pilots, fact is (not impression) they have to treat their pilots well for them to say for like you say, you would be out the door with a great 737 TR under your belt and be very employable. Ryanair know this and have therefore to treat their pilots well enough to make them stay, sure a few leave but the majority dont, and as for the court cases, those who went to court, where do they still work? yep, ryanair.

Fact is (not impression) they have a great roster of 5 on 4 off and no senority-list so you can plan your life in advance where other airlines that do use senority, new entries and in particular low hour cadets can really get a crap deal.

Dont get me wrong Im not saying Ryanair are "the best" of course not, that would be unrealistic, what Im trying to say is that there is a lot of "impressions" or "peoples views" etc on ryanair but when you actually know about the company they are a lot better than people "think"

Lately they have also really sorted out their training and you go smoothly through finishing the TR one week to base training the following week.

You could do alot worse......

[Cojack]

You tell em Fatso!

I completely agree with yourself. Your grown men for god sakes. What do you want? Ryanair to took you into bed at night, kiss you on the forhead and tell you everything will be ok?

The facts are:
Ryanair Pay you a good wage.
They have a stable 5 on 4 off roster.
They garuntee no overnights.

What do you want? A medal and a sports day every year? Grow up. Your old enough to make your own sandwiches.

[scroggs]

Do not listen to rants from either side of this argument. Ryaniar employ some strange practices which can disadvantage you compared to other airlines, and you need to be aware of them before you commit to going that route. It is true that, on some contracts, the pay is reasonable (but not outstanding on any contract), but the lack of pay in the first year or so is a major hurdle, and so is the intimidatory attitude of the company to its workers (and customers - but that's another argument!).

Consider Ryanair, by all means, but make sure you have as many facts (not rumours) to hand as possible when you compare it with the competition! Most of the relevent facts are available within this thread, and those linked to in Terms and Endearments.

Scroggs

[TolTol]

Originally Posted by Cojack

They have a stable 5 on 4 off roster.

How come some pilots have this roster? I know other pilots who are on 5 on 2 off, 5 on 3 off. Does it depend on where you are based?

Thanks.

[future captain]

We all speak speculation, some of it may be true, other bits not so. Take a lot of it with a pinch of salt. BUT when a current employee gives his/her side of the story, listen with all ears. They are the ones in the know, they know their **** about what's going on, if i want to know what it's really like working for Virgin I'd go to scroggs, if i want to know about ryanair, ill go to a ryanair chap, simple as. The in betweens is a big mist and does not usual tell the whole story.

[scroggs]

OK, here's some experience from the inside:

Ryanair - some thought-provoking info

Read it. Then tell those guys they don't know what they're talking about!

Scroggs

[God Loves a Flyer]

Scroggs - that info is a year old, it is irrelevant to this discussion.

Also I take issue with you (as a moderator) making statements that are blatently untrue with regard to Ryanair.

Please stop passing rumours as facts. What intimidatory atmosphere are you talking about? You have never worked in Ryanair so I don't think you are qualified to make this statement.

"On some contracts the pay is reasonable", I can't belive the negative tone of this statement. It is widely accepted (even by hardened FR bashers) that Ryaniar pay well. Why are you asserting otherwise?

"the lack of pay in the first year" What lack of pay?

I do agree that should take every post with a pinch of salt. Advocates of Ryanair could be management, complainents could be union people pushing their own agenda etc.

Signed, a weary Ryanair pilot who can no longer take the constant, unjustified digs on these forums.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I fly regularly with FO's who are ex-Ryanair and they all confirm that the companies approach to industrial relations is very different to that found in every other airline of similar size and shape.

I don't think even Ryanair management would deny that.

Wannabes need to be aware of this. Which is why Scroggs and I urge caution where Wannabes and Ryanair are mixed together.

Cheers

WWW

[RogerIrrelevant69]

It begs the question how many other organisations have some of the FR enthusiasts worked for? Maybe some of them think that the FR way of dealing with industrial relations is the norm. From what we read and what the Irish judicial system has been presented with on a number of occasions, it clearly is not.

I have worked for a couple of pretty bad outfits in my time and when I got out the other side and into a normal working atmosphere it was like going from the ****tyest day in winter to a fine day in spring. I think you will find it is all relative.

[potkettleblack]

The biggest problem in trying to understand the inner workings within Ryanair is that it is tending to go more and more for contractors. Each one of them could concievably have different terms and conditions. You need to bear that in mind when people post on pprune saying that information is a year out of date. Very few people will be in a position to know what the various T&C's are across the entire pilot group. You also have separate contracts for pilots who are employed by Ryanair and these will undoubtedly vary depending on the joining date.

The only real way of knowing is to get a copy of the latest contract on offer and then come back with specific questions to see if they are trying a fast one or not.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Working for an employer that might be trying to pull a fast one is, I think, the whole issue.

WWW

[willby]

TolTol,
The roster depends on whether you are employed directly by Ryanair or contracted to them by Brookfield. The Brookfield contract has the 5 on 4 off roster.
Rgds
Willby

[scroggs]

Originally Posted by God Loves a Flyer

Scroggs - that info is a year old, it is irrelevant to this discussion.Also I take issue with you (as a moderator) making statements that are blatently untrue with regard to Ryanair.

It is indeed a year old - slightly more, in fact. However, it is anything but irrelevent to this discussion. It was posted by people who declared themselves to be Ryanair employees, and backed up by others. There has been no information posted within this forum to suggest these practices have been altered or discontinued. Have you verifiable information otherwise? Where are the untruths?

Please stop passing rumours as facts. What intimidatory atmosphere are you talking about?

The intimidatory atmosphere is documented in the so-called 'Guide for Prospective Ryanair Employees'; it was referred to by the judge in the recent, high-profile court case that Ryanair lost; it is cited as one of the reasons for the existence of the Ryanair European Pilots Association. Again, are you suggesting that all this evidence is fabricated?

"On some contracts the pay is reasonable", I can't belive the negative tone of this statement. It is widely accepted (even by hardened FR bashers) that Ryaniar pay well. Why are you asserting otherwise?

Because there have been a number of threads that suggest that, for some contracts, the pay is not great; this is just one example. If that is not the case, please state where the inaccuracies lie.

"the lack of pay in the first year" What lack of pay?

From this post, among others. Can you categorically state that this salary and allowances regime is no longer in effect? Are Ryanair's low-hours pilots now paid a reasonable living wage from day 1, irrelevent of flying hours completed?

Signed, a weary Ryanair pilot who can no longer take the constant, unjustified digs on these forums.

Nothing I have posted is a dig at Ryanair. Not one word of the criticism of your company has originated from me; all I have done is read the contributions by your colleagues and suggested that those who wish to work for Ryanair also read these comments before they commit to anything. It is up to them to make their minds up whether they wish to work for an organisation that seems to generate so much adverse comment from its own employees.

Of course, if you can give us assurance that none of the posts linked to state the truth, and can show us the evidence to the contrary, we will be pleased to post it so that wannabes - and your fellow employees - can read it. Or would you rather it was all brushed under the carpet and we continued to pretend that all is well in this, the best of all possible worlds?

Scroggs

[zooloflyer]

It is a fact that you cannot really speak of a neutral moderator at all times

I guess there is a lot of truth in the FR document but on the other hand there's also a lack of detail.

Anyway as this is the wannabes forum why not get to the point and try to get someone who just went through the FR training to tell us how things went recently.

- timing from ground course to line check
- pay over year 1, year 2,...
- base allocation - stability
- roster - the site says 5on 4off...
- atmosphere
etc

Thanks

[TolTol]

Willby, I have a friend who is employed directly by Ryanair and she is on a 5 on 4 off roster and based in Ireland. So lucky