Oxford Aviation Training (OAT) - Who has got a job?
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Originally Posted by Lucifer
Dream on mate, dream on!
, I reckon they would be comparable to graduate salaries, certainly not double (i.e. £44k).
, I reckon they would be comparable to graduate salaries, certainly not double (i.e. £44k).
I am just out of the bank this afternoon, you will be pleased to know that pilots are not seen very well in terms of income security, loans, etc....in comparison with doctors, finance people, lawyers, teachers, etc... It is maybe just the point of view of my bank, but I strongly suspect this is what most banks think...
Gives one food for thought....
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Correct. Why do you also think HSBC have stopped their loans to pilots. You now need it secured and they have renamed it "Professional Studies Loan."
The only way for the HSBC loan, is through OAT (I am told), unless you have a home to risk.
The only way for the HSBC loan, is through OAT (I am told), unless you have a home to risk.
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Don't go to OAT
I would advise anyone, don't waste your money. Reasons:
1) I left last Autumn out of the 12 who started 5 have got jobs. (90% yea right)
2) I think in the current market there is no point paying over the odds £65 grand to do the training. As even when you have completed the training most companies are expecting you to pay for the type rating anyway so you may as well do it for £40 grand and spend the extra £20 grand on a type rating with a good company e.g. PARC who have a 100% job success rate.
JUST A THOUGHT
I would also like to mention that I thought OAT was completely disorganized throughout so it came as no surprise to me that as soon as I had finished my course I heard nothing not even a hint of an interview and that goes for the other seven on my course without jobs. Some of whom have now had to completely give up on their dream. If OAT is the best in the country I would not like to see the worst!!!
P.S some of you might think this is sour grapes and yes it is, lots of money, lots of work, a 100% pass mark through out and still no job!!!
1) I left last Autumn out of the 12 who started 5 have got jobs. (90% yea right)
2) I think in the current market there is no point paying over the odds £65 grand to do the training. As even when you have completed the training most companies are expecting you to pay for the type rating anyway so you may as well do it for £40 grand and spend the extra £20 grand on a type rating with a good company e.g. PARC who have a 100% job success rate.
JUST A THOUGHT
I would also like to mention that I thought OAT was completely disorganized throughout so it came as no surprise to me that as soon as I had finished my course I heard nothing not even a hint of an interview and that goes for the other seven on my course without jobs. Some of whom have now had to completely give up on their dream. If OAT is the best in the country I would not like to see the worst!!!
P.S some of you might think this is sour grapes and yes it is, lots of money, lots of work, a 100% pass mark through out and still no job!!!
Last edited by Dotty Daisy; 22nd Jul 2006 at 07:44.
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Fact: There is a shortage of pilots, but only at the experienced end. It is partly a smoke screen by the Aviaton media to make money. If Pilot, Flyer, AC Int etc all jump on the band wagon and keep reporting of a huge pilot shortage, the FTO's advertising and spending thousands are really happy, the bod buying the mag is happy cos the dream is alive, and the airlines are happy, as they can have us all fight over a limited number of jobs for low hours crews. This means threads like " which TRTO shall I go to...like the one I have just chatted on."
They are not allowed to recruit past a certain percentage, so the whole scam is bo##ox. Yes they all need hundreds of pilots, but where are the TRCapt's to fly with them?
Further why is it since JAA has arrived, hundreds of European pilots have emerged in the UK being paid in Euro's (bargain for the Airlines), which doesn't really bother me; what does is that you try to get a job in Spain, France, Germany etc... not a hope, unless you fancy the far reaches of the sunny ex block countries and part of the requirement is that you speak their language.
Ever tried to hold a conversation with some of the new FO's in this country?
I think it stinks!
God that feels better. Still don't have a job though.
They are not allowed to recruit past a certain percentage, so the whole scam is bo##ox. Yes they all need hundreds of pilots, but where are the TRCapt's to fly with them?
Further why is it since JAA has arrived, hundreds of European pilots have emerged in the UK being paid in Euro's (bargain for the Airlines), which doesn't really bother me; what does is that you try to get a job in Spain, France, Germany etc... not a hope, unless you fancy the far reaches of the sunny ex block countries and part of the requirement is that you speak their language.
Ever tried to hold a conversation with some of the new FO's in this country?
I think it stinks!
God that feels better. Still don't have a job though.
Last edited by PAPI-74; 21st Jul 2006 at 22:35.
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On the loan front there, even through OAT, you need to secure it. So still need to risk your home! The way to do it is a thorough business plan, not just to fool the bank. Make sure its genuine. You really need to know in your own mind that you can pay this money back in the case of a severe downturn of recruitment in the industry. All be it the world is short of pilots as we keep seeing in the likes of Flight Int and Flt Training News, it only takes a one off tragedy or terrorist threat for the industry to plummet once more. This is risky so make sure you can dig yourself out of a hole if needed.
On the jet salary front...new jet FO's do earn 44k! Obviously thats the higher end andas a result of self sponsoring a type rating. Then in 4/5 years in a quick promoting company like easyjet, you're looking at 90K (more with the 10% pay rise looming). THe whole scheme from groundschool to paying of the loan is more than financially viable. But it seems to be a lottery as to wether you're lucky enough to get the job, and then, if its a high paying one!
Good luck to all who go for it...but think carefully!
On the jet salary front...new jet FO's do earn 44k! Obviously thats the higher end andas a result of self sponsoring a type rating. Then in 4/5 years in a quick promoting company like easyjet, you're looking at 90K (more with the 10% pay rise looming). THe whole scheme from groundschool to paying of the loan is more than financially viable. But it seems to be a lottery as to wether you're lucky enough to get the job, and then, if its a high paying one!
Good luck to all who go for it...but think carefully!
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If Pilot, Flyer, AC Int etc all jump on the band wagon and keep reporting of a huge pilot shortage, the FTO's advertising and spending thousands are really happy,
As for F/O pay for new pilots straight from flight school....I have a number of friends who have gone straight into the Lo-Cos (all on the 737) through the various schemes and most have (or will have) taken home less than 6k in thier first 6 months of line flying. (BTW they were all modular and got jobs off their own backs)
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Only 6k!!
I'm guessing they went to Ryanair!? But they knew that before starting. Ryanair pay crap at the beginning, thats the way it works. I dont know any other lo costs that act in suck a way. There are those that charge for line training, thats naff. How can anyone justify charging a pilot for the privalige to carry cout a commercial service?! However, none of this is a sudden supprise before you join the airline! Who takes a job without knowing what they're going ot be paid!
Believe me, this is not true of all low cost carriers!
The current easy FO salary is 35k (90%in first 6 months) + sector pay works out about 55-60 a day of which some is not taxed).
Only part of the negotiated 10% pay rise has been added, the resto to come in october and next year (i think).
I hate to come on here and blow the trumpet of those of us that are of course extrememly lucky and very much were in the right place at the right time. However, did pay for a type rating (which ive beentold time and time gain is silly...personally i think it was a bloody great decision!) But come on guys...why are these forums always SOOOOOOOOOO negative! Some are lucky some are unlucky, this is a big risk...but come on...why all of this scaremongering!?
I'm guessing they went to Ryanair!? But they knew that before starting. Ryanair pay crap at the beginning, thats the way it works. I dont know any other lo costs that act in suck a way. There are those that charge for line training, thats naff. How can anyone justify charging a pilot for the privalige to carry cout a commercial service?! However, none of this is a sudden supprise before you join the airline! Who takes a job without knowing what they're going ot be paid!
Believe me, this is not true of all low cost carriers!
The current easy FO salary is 35k (90%in first 6 months) + sector pay works out about 55-60 a day of which some is not taxed).
Only part of the negotiated 10% pay rise has been added, the resto to come in october and next year (i think).
I hate to come on here and blow the trumpet of those of us that are of course extrememly lucky and very much were in the right place at the right time. However, did pay for a type rating (which ive beentold time and time gain is silly...personally i think it was a bloody great decision!) But come on guys...why are these forums always SOOOOOOOOOO negative! Some are lucky some are unlucky, this is a big risk...but come on...why all of this scaremongering!?
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just my tuppence
I have.
graduated from oat in april this year on course 244, now working for BA along with 6 of my colleagues. when I left (almost) everyone from courses, 238,239,240,241,242,243 and 244 had been employed, approximately 15 people on each course. don't know what happened after that cos I wasn't there, but it was certainly good when I left! it's definately about being in the right place at the right time i'm afraid. I think everyone of those graduates in one way or another (reduced salary/capital upfront) paid their own type ratings, even in BA we are getting a big reduction in salary for the first 5 years, equating to around 40K in lost earnings, but that is now the way of the world and there aint all that much you can do about it as a low hours pilot.
not saying oat is perfect or for everyone, it's not.
same goes for jerez, I spent 5 weeks out there on a BA joc and didn't think it was that great to be honest.
haven't been to cabair for more than half a day so can't comment.
I think I got good value for money out of oat and I know it's easy for me to say having been employed virtually instantly, but even without the new job straight away, I think the quality of training and facilities far exceeded most, if not all of their competitors.
I am not a shiny 18 year old with rich parents either, 27 with 7 years as a licensed avionic engineer with the same company I'm with now.
my advice to anyone is to have something to fall back on so if things aren't great when you graduate, you are able to earn a decent wage whilst looking for work. a few people I know have unfortunately found themselves in the summer lull and have resorted to low paid, unskilled labour to make ends meet and they are finding things very difficult indeed.
spending lots of money on any flight training course is a big risk certainly, but it's one you are gonna have to take unfortunately! reduce the risk by ensuring you have a good back up plan, hopefully you won't need it but you never know!
moo
I have.
graduated from oat in april this year on course 244, now working for BA along with 6 of my colleagues. when I left (almost) everyone from courses, 238,239,240,241,242,243 and 244 had been employed, approximately 15 people on each course. don't know what happened after that cos I wasn't there, but it was certainly good when I left! it's definately about being in the right place at the right time i'm afraid. I think everyone of those graduates in one way or another (reduced salary/capital upfront) paid their own type ratings, even in BA we are getting a big reduction in salary for the first 5 years, equating to around 40K in lost earnings, but that is now the way of the world and there aint all that much you can do about it as a low hours pilot.
not saying oat is perfect or for everyone, it's not.
same goes for jerez, I spent 5 weeks out there on a BA joc and didn't think it was that great to be honest.
haven't been to cabair for more than half a day so can't comment.
I think I got good value for money out of oat and I know it's easy for me to say having been employed virtually instantly, but even without the new job straight away, I think the quality of training and facilities far exceeded most, if not all of their competitors.
I am not a shiny 18 year old with rich parents either, 27 with 7 years as a licensed avionic engineer with the same company I'm with now.
my advice to anyone is to have something to fall back on so if things aren't great when you graduate, you are able to earn a decent wage whilst looking for work. a few people I know have unfortunately found themselves in the summer lull and have resorted to low paid, unskilled labour to make ends meet and they are finding things very difficult indeed.
spending lots of money on any flight training course is a big risk certainly, but it's one you are gonna have to take unfortunately! reduce the risk by ensuring you have a good back up plan, hopefully you won't need it but you never know!
moo
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I'm guessing they went to Ryanair!? But they knew that before starting. Ryanair pay crap at the beginning, thats the way it works.
I dont know any other lo costs that act in suck a way.
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Originally Posted by moo
same goes for jerez, I spent 5 weeks out there on a BA joc and didn't think it was that great to be honest
Last edited by captwannabe; 22nd Jul 2006 at 13:04.
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The guy in the Pilot magazine training with OAT was almost guaranteed to get a job. Imagine if 6 months down the line he hadnt got a job and was writing about that in Pilot magazine. What would that have done for them.
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That goes back a few posts to what a joke those mags are. They are all in each others back pockets, to make money out the believers.
Don't believe and don't buy that cra#, especially if you get a wiff of it being anywhere near a marketing dept. like that article. I didn't buy it, just read it from a table. This just feed the whold chain with cash.
The airlines have stopped their sponsorship, FTO's are flooded, Airlines can pick and choose from all countries, adverts are bigger and bolder....can noone see it.
If it sound too good to be true.....it probably isn't *(as they say)* 
Don't believe and don't buy that cra#, especially if you get a wiff of it being anywhere near a marketing dept. like that article. I didn't buy it, just read it from a table. This just feed the whold chain with cash.
The airlines have stopped their sponsorship, FTO's are flooded, Airlines can pick and choose from all countries, adverts are bigger and bolder....can noone see it.
If it sound too good to be true.....it probably isn't *(as they say)*
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Ive read the article since it first appeared as I subscribe to Pilot magazine.
Ive not been taken in by this stuff. Im 22 and am just finishing my PPL. I plan to go all the way but im gonna follow the modular route and keep my day job which is shift work and pays well so i will be able to do all my training and pay for it without getting in to debt. I will be able to keep my current job and will not have to get a job when im qualified ill be able to apply and apply and apply and not have to worry about paying back loans.
Im not bothered what I fly just as long as I can fly.........
Ive not been taken in by this stuff. Im 22 and am just finishing my PPL. I plan to go all the way but im gonna follow the modular route and keep my day job which is shift work and pays well so i will be able to do all my training and pay for it without getting in to debt. I will be able to keep my current job and will not have to get a job when im qualified ill be able to apply and apply and apply and not have to worry about paying back loans.
Im not bothered what I fly just as long as I can fly.........
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I wish you luck. Quick stat. for you. 70% of distance learners quit to go full time or fail.
The same for the flying side. Give yourself 4 months off with no other pressure. I have seen friends fail because they had to be back at work. That will cost you thousands and a black mark on your C.V.
Modular is just as good as Int. but working and studying is v. tough.
I did mod. full time in house. 5 of the 9 in there were ex. distance learners and more came along every few months into the school for various classes (not just the 2 week cram before the exam).
Those who do get all first time passes and work too....my hat goes off to you, cos you have earned a job at the end.
My point...it's not easy. Some degree students say it is harder doing the ATPL exams. If you are going to do it, go with Bristol GS. Their support is second to none.
Good Luck!
The same for the flying side. Give yourself 4 months off with no other pressure. I have seen friends fail because they had to be back at work. That will cost you thousands and a black mark on your C.V.
Modular is just as good as Int. but working and studying is v. tough.
I did mod. full time in house. 5 of the 9 in there were ex. distance learners and more came along every few months into the school for various classes (not just the 2 week cram before the exam).
Those who do get all first time passes and work too....my hat goes off to you, cos you have earned a job at the end.
My point...it's not easy. Some degree students say it is harder doing the ATPL exams. If you are going to do it, go with Bristol GS. Their support is second to none.
Good Luck!
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Bristol was my first choice anyway.
Im o.k with the studying and working as Im an engineer for a printing company and I work a continental shift pattern . That means I work 3 days a week or 3 nights so if you took monday as the first day of the month i would work like this
Mon,Tue,Wed days......... then........no work....Thurs,fri,sat,sun,mon,tue....then......wed,thurs,fri night.....then....nowork sat,sun,mon,tue,wed.....then..work....thurs,fri,sat day,sun,mon,tues night and then off till mon and back at start of month.
That means I work 12 days a month and I can devote at least 12 days a month to studying.
Thanks for your advice though I take it onboard and im not expecting an easy ride.
Im o.k with the studying and working as Im an engineer for a printing company and I work a continental shift pattern . That means I work 3 days a week or 3 nights so if you took monday as the first day of the month i would work like this
Mon,Tue,Wed days......... then........no work....Thurs,fri,sat,sun,mon,tue....then......wed,thurs,fri night.....then....nowork sat,sun,mon,tue,wed.....then..work....thurs,fri,sat day,sun,mon,tues night and then off till mon and back at start of month.
That means I work 12 days a month and I can devote at least 12 days a month to studying.
Thanks for your advice though I take it onboard and im not expecting an easy ride.
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You won't get an easy ride. Think of the exams as a filter to get rid of the ones who couldn't cope with a TR at the end.
They fill up your head with a huge amount of info., some of it you will never use again. This in itself is a test of endurance and personality. Think of the man in the CAA as a twisted, sick individual. His job is to torment you into failing but traps. If you don't keep reading this info every 9 days, you will forget certain concepts or it will take you too long to work out calculations from formula and tables (probably second nature to an engineer).
My piont: it takes constant revision to master what they are asking you in the question. It is worded to trip you up. Bristol will iron it out, but to have no one to show you how to do e.g.multi leg point of equil time calcs or Departure, Convergency,Grid nav, charts / scale, etc...
Like I say, good luck!
They fill up your head with a huge amount of info., some of it you will never use again. This in itself is a test of endurance and personality. Think of the man in the CAA as a twisted, sick individual. His job is to torment you into failing but traps. If you don't keep reading this info every 9 days, you will forget certain concepts or it will take you too long to work out calculations from formula and tables (probably second nature to an engineer).
My piont: it takes constant revision to master what they are asking you in the question. It is worded to trip you up. Bristol will iron it out, but to have no one to show you how to do e.g.multi leg point of equil time calcs or Departure, Convergency,Grid nav, charts / scale, etc...
Like I say, good luck!
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Originally Posted by Pilotdom
I will be able to keep my current job and will not have to get a job when im qualified ill be able to apply and apply and apply and not have to worry about paying back loans.
Some schools will also try to sell you a (modular) course on the pre-text that you can carry on working, BUT think very carefully befor you swallow this line! The benefit to them may be around £30-£40K so they have a vested interest in you signing up. You're attitude is admirable, BUT BEWARE!
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Moo
I'm affraid your stats on the courses you quoted are very incorrect I am from one of those courses and don't have a job along with six of my colleagues. (Sorry but very well done for getting into BA, good effort)
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It seemed a bit puffed up to be a realistic figure. Didn't get it from OAT marketing did you MOO.
Mind you, how else do we find out apart from half any figures these places give us?
Mind you, how else do we find out apart from half any figures these places give us?