BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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The reason Nxxx Mxxxxx was sacked was not that she was "representing" the crew or any other "official" reason from Bassa. It has to do with a serious incident onboard an aircraft (without pax at the time), where when the crew were due to be interviewed, Nxxx Mxxxxx encouraged them to lie. That's just one of the real reasons. I know you all probably want me to elaborate, but I can't. Sorry.
Well done to those few who have the guts to stand up to DH and are trying to get some answers. I suspect their access to the Bassa Forum will now be denied, and no doubt, their membership cancelled for them.
Well done to those few who have the guts to stand up to DH and are trying to get some answers. I suspect their access to the Bassa Forum will now be denied, and no doubt, their membership cancelled for them.
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If you were present MIDLGW then I cannot argue against your understanding of the reps dismissal, however, my understanding is that she explained to the crew involved that they could not provide a statement based on hearsay, they could not report what they hadn't seen, they could not report the rumour they had heard as fact.
On that basis BA were unable to discipline anyone.
On that basis BA were unable to discipline anyone.
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MIDLGW
The reason Nxxx Mxxxxx was sacked was not that she was "representing" the crew or any other "official" reason from Bassa. It has to do with a serious incident onboard an aircraft (without pax at the time), where when the crew were due to be interviewed, Nxxx Mxxxxx encouraged them to lie. That's just one of the real reasons. I know you all probably want me to elaborate, but I can't. Sorry.
Well done to those few who have the guts to stand up to DH and are trying to get some answers. I suspect their access to the Bassa Forum will now be denied, and no doubt, their membership cancelled for them.
Well done to those few who have the guts to stand up to DH and are trying to get some answers. I suspect their access to the Bassa Forum will now be denied, and no doubt, their membership cancelled for them.
I suggest that you are posting 'fact' on hearsay and I would suggest that your posting, unless you are able to prove its validity is slanderous
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SaS
Bob told me he had just killed John. Bob was covered in blood and clearly distressed. When the police came to interview me about the incident, I thought it best not to mention what Bob had said, as I clearly hadn't seen Bob do it and it would just confuse their investigation. I mean the blood could have been from anywhere and Bob may not have even been talking about that particular John. I did hear John screaming "Bob stop hurting me" but again I didn't actually see it I just heard the screams. And that knife could have been for a steak Bob was about to eat........
You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of us.
She wasn't sacked for nothing. That much I know. Instinctively.
I guess we'll find out when this goes to tribunal.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of us.
She wasn't sacked for nothing. That much I know. Instinctively.
I guess we'll find out when this goes to tribunal.
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I suggest that you are posting 'fact' on hearsay and I would suggest that your posting, unless you are able to prove its validity is slanderous
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PC767
Exactly. It sounds like you know the LEAST about this incident. Why don't you go and get some facts from your union bods and stop believing the soundbites.
I'd bet money that she doesn't win at tribunal.
Back to the thread.......
Exactly. It sounds like you know the LEAST about this incident. Why don't you go and get some facts from your union bods and stop believing the soundbites.
I'd bet money that she doesn't win at tribunal.
Back to the thread.......
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Nobody, as far as I'm aware, knows the full facts on here. Instead we sit back and let reputations be maligned for no better reason than it makes Bassa look bad.
The least I know about this incident is equal to the amount you know and I suspect MIDLGW. I offer an alternative rumour for the sake of balance.
The least I know about this incident is equal to the amount you know and I suspect MIDLGW. I offer an alternative rumour for the sake of balance.
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PC767, I don't have a problem with you not believing me. It's your perogative. I'm confident enough in what I know that a few people not believing me is not an issue.
The only reason I brought this to people's attention, is because I'm tired of the lies about sackings and suspensions. I know some have been re-instated, and good for them. I know some haven't been re-instated, which means they did something seriously wrong. Some cases have been more public than others, such as D.H. and M.E. Both of these guys claim to be innocent, but we all (well, most) know better.
The only reason I brought this to people's attention, is because I'm tired of the lies about sackings and suspensions. I know some have been re-instated, and good for them. I know some haven't been re-instated, which means they did something seriously wrong. Some cases have been more public than others, such as D.H. and M.E. Both of these guys claim to be innocent, but we all (well, most) know better.
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Disciplinary process
There is a lot of misinformation, even by Unite, on BA's EG901 disciplinary process. You get the impression that people have been disciplined or sacked for doing little or nothing wrong.
But EG901 is quite clear on what the process is. Briefly, there is first a preliminary investigation (PI) to determine if there is a case to be answered. If there is, then there is a hearing. You may ask: Who carries out the hearing? This is the answer (quoted verbatim from EG901):
If the case is found against the employee, the employee can appeal twice against the sanction.
The employee is entitled to have union help at the hearing.
So, how can Unite claim that the process is so flawed, causing may cabin crew have been unfairly disciplined or dismissed?
But EG901 is quite clear on what the process is. Briefly, there is first a preliminary investigation (PI) to determine if there is a case to be answered. If there is, then there is a hearing. You may ask: Who carries out the hearing? This is the answer (quoted verbatim from EG901):
a manager with no prior involvement in the case, a management grade or equivalent if dismissal is a possible sanction
The employee is entitled to have union help at the hearing.
So, how can Unite claim that the process is so flawed, causing may cabin crew have been unfairly disciplined or dismissed?
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Caribbean Boy
The policy does not matter; if business want rid, then there is no comeback other than a financial penalty for acting in an improper manner. The £65K max penalty is a drop in the ocean, compared to the savings figures.
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I hear that the Branch Secretary of BASSA has asked all union members who did not vote or voted no to industrial action to leave the Unite/Bassa union.
If this is true, i wouldn't be suprised if a few thousand took him up.
If this is true, i wouldn't be suprised if a few thousand took him up.
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So what this boils down to is N.M. encouraged crew to withhold information that could have been useful to BA. Naughty naughty, interfering with the investigative process and all that (to use Duncans vernacular).
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Unless any of us have actually read the disciplinary notes and reports in any of these cases then none of us are in a position to discuss individual disciplinaries and suspensions with any degree of certainty.
What is certain is BA do not just sack people. There is a robust procedure in place which is followed when disciplining ANY BA employee, cabin crew or not. I know some peolple will crow that this process is being used more harshly in order to get rid of militant employees, but again, how are any of us able to pass judgement like that if we haven't seen or heard the evidence in question.
As already mentioned, an Employment Tribunal will have the final say.
Now can we move on....
What is certain is BA do not just sack people. There is a robust procedure in place which is followed when disciplining ANY BA employee, cabin crew or not. I know some peolple will crow that this process is being used more harshly in order to get rid of militant employees, but again, how are any of us able to pass judgement like that if we haven't seen or heard the evidence in question.
As already mentioned, an Employment Tribunal will have the final say.
Now can we move on....
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hula
An employment tribunal will not have a final say in anything. It will make sure that BA followed due process and examine whether their actions where a reasonable response to the alleged misconduct.It is not allowed to transpose its own view, for that of the employer.
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AITO Speaks out
AITO blasts BA crew strike decision
AITO has hit out at British Airways crew for voting to strike again, labelling the action “comical if it weren’t so serious”.
A statement from the Association of Independent Tour Operators says that following a “brutal” year which saw the ash cloud debacle and heavy snow disruption, a strike is the “last thing” that the airline needs.
It says: “The threat of another BA strike once again hangs over the travel industry, and on the very day when the British Airways name disappears from the London Stock Exchange, cabin crew seem to be doing their best to cause chaos to innocent travellers once again.”
It was revealed on Friday that British Airways cabin crew had voted by 5,751 to 1,579 in favour of strike action. No strike dates have been set yet. Crew union Unite said the turn out to vote on whether to strike was bigger than the last time.
Union leader Len McCluskey said: “For the fourth time in 13 months, BA cabin crew have voted overwhelmingly in support of their union and expressed their dissatisfaction with management behaviour.”
The dispute has been dragging on for two years and has already led to 22 strike days, costing BA £150m.
AITO aviation committee chairman John Tangney said: “If it wasn’t so serious it would be almost comical, cabin crew were warned that if they went on strike that their staff concessions would be removed yet they continued regardless.
“They can have absolutely no grounds for complaint; it is clear that their initial strike action was a calamitous decision and achieved nothing.
“I would recommend that travellers who are concerned about this strike to contact their tour operator who will be ready for their calls and will help re-book flights with other carriers.”
BA says it has contingency plans in place that will mean that during the next walk out it will be able to operate all of its flights from Gatwick and London City and all long-haul flights from Heathrow. Only “a minority” of short-haul flights from Heathrow will be affected.
AITO ends its statement by advising holiday makers to book with specialist tour operators in order to receive “full back up”.
Its adds: “Many of AITO’s 140 holiday specialists are ready to work around the clock to rebook clients on alternative airlines, reorganise accommodation and car hire, source new dates for holidays, and generally reassure people that they are in safe hands.
"Tour operators assume responsibility for holidays when something goes awry and, when a problem of this magnitude rears its head, who doesn’t want to have somebody to turn to for advice and practical help instead of opting for a long wait for a BA phone to be answered?”
AITO has hit out at British Airways crew for voting to strike again, labelling the action “comical if it weren’t so serious”.
A statement from the Association of Independent Tour Operators says that following a “brutal” year which saw the ash cloud debacle and heavy snow disruption, a strike is the “last thing” that the airline needs.
It says: “The threat of another BA strike once again hangs over the travel industry, and on the very day when the British Airways name disappears from the London Stock Exchange, cabin crew seem to be doing their best to cause chaos to innocent travellers once again.”
It was revealed on Friday that British Airways cabin crew had voted by 5,751 to 1,579 in favour of strike action. No strike dates have been set yet. Crew union Unite said the turn out to vote on whether to strike was bigger than the last time.
Union leader Len McCluskey said: “For the fourth time in 13 months, BA cabin crew have voted overwhelmingly in support of their union and expressed their dissatisfaction with management behaviour.”
The dispute has been dragging on for two years and has already led to 22 strike days, costing BA £150m.
AITO aviation committee chairman John Tangney said: “If it wasn’t so serious it would be almost comical, cabin crew were warned that if they went on strike that their staff concessions would be removed yet they continued regardless.
“They can have absolutely no grounds for complaint; it is clear that their initial strike action was a calamitous decision and achieved nothing.
“I would recommend that travellers who are concerned about this strike to contact their tour operator who will be ready for their calls and will help re-book flights with other carriers.”
BA says it has contingency plans in place that will mean that during the next walk out it will be able to operate all of its flights from Gatwick and London City and all long-haul flights from Heathrow. Only “a minority” of short-haul flights from Heathrow will be affected.
AITO ends its statement by advising holiday makers to book with specialist tour operators in order to receive “full back up”.
Its adds: “Many of AITO’s 140 holiday specialists are ready to work around the clock to rebook clients on alternative airlines, reorganise accommodation and car hire, source new dates for holidays, and generally reassure people that they are in safe hands.
"Tour operators assume responsibility for holidays when something goes awry and, when a problem of this magnitude rears its head, who doesn’t want to have somebody to turn to for advice and practical help instead of opting for a long wait for a BA phone to be answered?”
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Posted by JUAN TRIPP on 19th Jan
Got that totally wrong didn't you clever clogs. Might I suggest that next time you come on here spouting off your 'mystic meg' ideas, you engage brain first and then type.
Sorry about the above folks. I've had a chat with my alterego and I think he now understands the process a bit more. He did mention to me though that he thought DH would now go nuclear, and go for a straight solid 2 month strike. Ummm?? I've told him to stop coming out with such stupid ideas
So the ballot result is due to be announced on Friday. How do we feel its going to go?. My guess has changed totally over the last few weeks, and now I think there will be a 'NO' majority. If Bassa/Amicus are to be believed, and that 10000 ballots were sent out, I think there will be around 8000 returned forms. Of those 3500 will be yes, and 4500 will be no. The main reason I'm saying this, is because I've met a hell of a lot of crew recently who are still in Bassa ( WHY??)
but came into work and have voted NO in this ballot. I really think that Bassa will lose this one.
but came into work and have voted NO in this ballot. I really think that Bassa will lose this one.Sorry about the above folks. I've had a chat with my alterego and I think he now understands the process a bit more. He did mention to me though that he thought DH would now go nuclear, and go for a straight solid 2 month strike. Ummm?? I've told him to stop coming out with such stupid ideas
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I think all the 'NO' voters are on Eurofleet because I have flown with so many too. The abstainers are actually all the people who have left the unions in the last year and yet still got a ballot paper, which just leaves a few thousand hard core WW crew who voted 'YES'. On Eurofleet, the remaining 'Yes' voters are definately in the minority and seem to be centred among the Purser community (for reasons I haven't been able to fathom) and senior main crew.
It'll be interesting to see which of them have the courage of their convictions and actually 'walk the talk'.
Blimey, two whole months without a non-op; I don't know if I can cope with that much work after two years of sitting around! he doesn't need you putting crazy ideas in his head, he has enough of his own!
It'll be interesting to see which of them have the courage of their convictions and actually 'walk the talk'.
a straight solid 2 month strike