BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Hotel Mode
None but the strike in '97 was different. At least the new contract was integrated onto existing fleets. We are now facing a separate fleet which means the end to EF and WW fleets.
Ranger07
ST had no relevance in my decision to strike. Personally they can stuff it but as I have said many of our commuters are suffering from participating in a lawful industrial action. What BA did when they removed this concession was to punish every striker for being naughty.
Self importance? Of course. We are the reason as to why BA was once the world's favourite airline. Sure, some managers and desk clerks at Waterside might have put a few things together but the cabin crew are the face of the airline.
midman
What do you think will happen when we are too many crew on EF and WW fleets? They will either offer us Mixed Fleet (despite them being afraid of us contaminating the fleet) or show us the door.
BASSA offered different solutions which excluded crewing level reductions. BA weren't interested. At one point they were only £10 million pounds apart so I doubt that they have ever been interested in reaching an agreement.
Strikebreaking crew and VCC not minding their own business being applauded by passengers at the gate? Sure, that's certainly something to applaud at.
None but the strike in '97 was different. At least the new contract was integrated onto existing fleets. We are now facing a separate fleet which means the end to EF and WW fleets.
Ranger07
ST had no relevance in my decision to strike. Personally they can stuff it but as I have said many of our commuters are suffering from participating in a lawful industrial action. What BA did when they removed this concession was to punish every striker for being naughty.
Self importance? Of course. We are the reason as to why BA was once the world's favourite airline. Sure, some managers and desk clerks at Waterside might have put a few things together but the cabin crew are the face of the airline.
midman
What do you think will happen when we are too many crew on EF and WW fleets? They will either offer us Mixed Fleet (despite them being afraid of us contaminating the fleet) or show us the door.
BASSA offered different solutions which excluded crewing level reductions. BA weren't interested. At one point they were only £10 million pounds apart so I doubt that they have ever been interested in reaching an agreement.
Strikebreaking crew and VCC not minding their own business being applauded by passengers at the gate? Sure, that's certainly something to applaud at.
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I honestly think that with your attitude you would be better off working elsewhere, for your own peace of mind.
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Self importance? Of course. We are the reason as to why BA was once the world's favourite airline. Sure, some managers and desk clerks at Waterside might have put a few things together but the cabin crew are the face of the airline.
Forget what everyone else does within BA, the Cabin Crew, according to BASSA, are all that counts. The CEO that lead to such crass opinions is long gone as should such arrogance.
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And here lies your first mistake - it is NOT a contract. It is an AGREEMENT - just as we all work(ed) to AGREEMENTS until BA decided to change them. You and your colleagues have been used - No current BA crew will be 'safe' from whatever BA want to do.
For those of you who 'Backed BA' - you will not be 'protected' neither will 'legacy' (I love the way you Pilots are using that word) crew.
For Tiramisu, HiFlyer14, Eddy et al - you need to understand that BA is a business, a corporate machine, a money making entity for it's shareholders, simples 
BA is not here to 'protect' nor 'look after' anyone - it is here to make money.
BA is not here to 'protect' nor 'look after' anyone - it is here to make money.
As far as BA not protecting us, how would you explain Bill Francis offer that we've signed up to if that's not protecting our future earnings?
I have flown with several BASSA members who wished they too could have accepted the same offer.
Take whatever Bill Francis offered you with a pinch of salt - they will change whatever they want to change and do whatever they want to do. The only thing that could possibly stop them doing that would be a strong Trades Union and thats almost a thing of the past.
By the way, is BASSA the so called strong Trade Union that you are referring to that failed to bring BA to it's knees?
Bravo!
Last edited by Tiramisu; 6th Oct 2010 at 17:17.
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Miss M said,
It's not too late for you, or anyone else, to change your mind. The majority of us made the right decision earlier this year and won't doubt to make that decision again. Personally I will strike go on strike for as long as it takes as some of us care about out future and will not accept this behaviour from our excuse to an LT.
It's not too late for you, or anyone else, to change your mind. The majority of us made the right decision earlier this year and won't doubt to make that decision again. Personally I will strike go on strike for as long as it takes as some of us care about out future and will not accept this behaviour from our excuse to an LT.
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Wonderful arrogance. It would seem within the world rankings the 'face of the airline' is in need of a lift.
Forget what everyone else does within BA, the Cabin Crew, according to BASSA, are all that counts. The CEO that lead to such crass opinions is long gone as should such arrogance.
Forget what everyone else does within BA, the Cabin Crew, according to BASSA, are all that counts. The CEO that lead to such crass opinions is long gone as should such arrogance.
Like it or not, we are the face of the airline. We spend the longest time with our customers. Whenever a manager, or some desk clerk, at Waterside decides to change something onboard, we have to face the consequences and deal accordingly, not them.
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Tiramisu
It's not too late to change side. Should there be another strike, you are more than welcome to come to BFC. Some of you, those 1000 who signed the individual BA offer and really sold yourselves down the river, might have move on. What happens later? No union representation. You will be on your own. Are you relying that PCCC will come and rescue you?
If you, and every other union member who crossed the picket line for whatever reasons, had supported your union, which is responsible for the terms and conditions which you are enjoying, we never would have been here today. The dispute would have been long gone. Unfortunately there will always be individuals who are enjoying certain benefits, which others are fighting for because they don't want to do it themselves.
It's not too late to change side. Should there be another strike, you are more than welcome to come to BFC. Some of you, those 1000 who signed the individual BA offer and really sold yourselves down the river, might have move on. What happens later? No union representation. You will be on your own. Are you relying that PCCC will come and rescue you?
If you, and every other union member who crossed the picket line for whatever reasons, had supported your union, which is responsible for the terms and conditions which you are enjoying, we never would have been here today. The dispute would have been long gone. Unfortunately there will always be individuals who are enjoying certain benefits, which others are fighting for because they don't want to do it themselves.
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Tiramisu
Yes I admit, an error on my part calling it a contract instead of an agreement. Nevertheless, it's still an agreement from BA in writng that confirms my future earnings which is much more than you or other crew members have. And for that I am grateful to BA.
In Backing BA, we backed ourselves protecting our jobs and those of other employees in BA too.
As far as BA not protecting us, how would you explain Bill Francis offer that we've signed up to if that's not protecting our future earnings?
I have flown with several BASSA members who wished they too could have accepted the same offer.
I'm very happy with the offer from Bill Francis and prepared to move with the times and work with BA.
As far as I am concerned, I'm playing my part like the rest of the BA workforce in contributing to cost savings while protecting my job. How are you playing your part?
By the way, is BASSA the so called strong Trade Union that you are referring to that failed to bring BA to it's knees?
Take whatever Bill Francis offered you with a pinch of salt - they will change whatever they want to change and do whatever they want to do. The only thing that could possibly stop them doing that would be a strong Trades Union and thats almost a thing of the past.
I emphasised the fact that BASSA is almost a spent force so I do not understand your point. BASSA is still the strongest trades union amongst Cabin Crew. There simply is no other viable alternative.
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Miss M,
No offence, but I'm not the type to frequent BFC even if it was the last place on earth!
As far as BASSA is concerned, it is a reckless union which has lost credibility in every sense. It's tarnished the name of cabin crew and I wouldn't want to be associated with it in any way. I'm also content with the benefits that BA have granted me.
I'm very happy with the PCCC which has a respectable and very adult forum where momentum is growing rapidly. If I need support, I will consult the PCCC.
No offence, but I'm not the type to frequent BFC even if it was the last place on earth!
As far as BASSA is concerned, it is a reckless union which has lost credibility in every sense. It's tarnished the name of cabin crew and I wouldn't want to be associated with it in any way. I'm also content with the benefits that BA have granted me.
I'm very happy with the PCCC which has a respectable and very adult forum where momentum is growing rapidly. If I need support, I will consult the PCCC.
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Why only some of you, MissM?
Flights crewed by VCC? VCC are not anywhere near the standards of some of us legacy crew.
Are we to assume that you place yourself amongst the "legacy crew" who're so much better than VCC?
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Only the BASSA leadership can conclude the deal
Do BA even care any more?
They could just let Bassa and their lemmings wallow in self pity.
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As far as I am concerned, I'm playing my part like the rest of the BA workforce in contributing to cost savings while protecting my job. How are you playing your part?
By working with one less crew member every trip
But yet you went on strike for working one crew member less!
PS:I have re-read your post re-BASSA being a spent force, so my reference to BASSA being the so called stong Trade Union was indeed irrelevant.
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So, has a deal been struck with Unite and BA ?
Sorry, but I've been off the radar for a bit and have missed all the latest gossip.......................
By the way, when did the thread title get changed ? Don't I get consulted on anything anymore!
Sorry, but I've been off the radar for a bit and have missed all the latest gossip.......................
By the way, when did the thread title get changed ? Don't I get consulted on anything anymore!
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Miss M
Self importance? Of course. We are the reason as to why BA was once the world's favourite airline. Sure, some managers and desk clerks at Waterside might have put a few things together but the cabin crew are the face of the airline.
[Takes deep breath]
Without wishng to be disparaging to cabin crew, you might care to contemplate what happened during the strike and extrapolate.
BA as a business continued to operate. We sold lots of seats. we sold lots of cargo space, we made certain that passengers, their baggage and all that cargo got from A to B. We bought in aircraft and crews.
Basic bit of airline fact - you don't need planes or cabin crew or (and here I am on thin ice given this forum) flight crew. You do need accountants, marketeers, sales folk, revenue management and maybe the odd IT bod. You don't need vast numbers but you do need some.You can go into the market place and buy the rest. That's what wet leasing is all about. You can buy in your ground handling, that's what Servisair Gatwick Handling and others provide. You won't make as much profit or have as big an asset base, but then you won't have huge debts to service either.
Cabin crew may be one of the faces of the airline, but are no use unless there is sizeable operation out there to ensure that there are passengers to carry in the first place.Cabin crew are not the most important part of the airline, never have been and never will be. Your comments only serve to make you look foolish.
The strength of an organisation is the sum of its component parts.
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Millitant or Moderate
What I find very interesting in the debate today, is whether BASSA/Unite or the PCCC would represent the interests of crew better? I would be a little naive if I thought that the bulk of contributors to this and previous threads, thought that BASSA/Unite was a good thing, but why set up another association to consult with BA? If BA are a reasonable employer, then a works council set up under the ICE regs would suffice. OK, you would not have negotiating rights, but negotiating rights mean nothing, if you cannot enforce a position and that does mean industrial action.
I understand that a banner is needed to draw people away from BASSA/Unite (I really want to say the T&G and god help us if Len gets in and my subsequent expulsion from Unite), but who is to say that the PCCC will not be made up of BASSA reps, if a deal is made by Unite with BA? There probably would be a fair few union cards ripped up if that happened, but could the PCCC be selective in its membership?
I understand that a banner is needed to draw people away from BASSA/Unite (I really want to say the T&G and god help us if Len gets in and my subsequent expulsion from Unite), but who is to say that the PCCC will not be made up of BASSA reps, if a deal is made by Unite with BA? There probably would be a fair few union cards ripped up if that happened, but could the PCCC be selective in its membership?
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DeThirdDefect
I can't speak for everybody but there are always exceptions. Surely there are probably some VCC who perform better than certain regular CC but they are definitely in the minority. I know that I'm very good at my job. I have a very good service record and would undoubtedly beat every VCC in every aspect onboard.
Tiramisu
We were striking over the principle of imposition and not actually the fact that crewing levels were decreased.
Colonel White
Are cabin crew not needed? Try departing a full 747 without any cabin crew onboard and you will see what happens. I gather you would get a personal visit from CAA.
BA is a premium airline. Customers pay a lot of money to fly with us and they do so for many reasons. We offer a good service (not as good as it used to be) onboard. Who deliver it? That would be us in the cabin. Customers tend to have high expectations, both on the service itself but also on us.
I can't speak for everybody but there are always exceptions. Surely there are probably some VCC who perform better than certain regular CC but they are definitely in the minority. I know that I'm very good at my job. I have a very good service record and would undoubtedly beat every VCC in every aspect onboard.
Tiramisu
We were striking over the principle of imposition and not actually the fact that crewing levels were decreased.
Colonel White
Are cabin crew not needed? Try departing a full 747 without any cabin crew onboard and you will see what happens. I gather you would get a personal visit from CAA.
BA is a premium airline. Customers pay a lot of money to fly with us and they do so for many reasons. We offer a good service (not as good as it used to be) onboard. Who deliver it? That would be us in the cabin. Customers tend to have high expectations, both on the service itself but also on us.
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BA has some truly excellent cabin crew. Then there are a majority who do their job as required. Then there is unfortunately a terrible minority as well who believe that the company owes them a living.
BA has created a monster - continually, crew have been told they are 'the best'. You just need to look at in-flight assessments - apparently crew member XYZ is exceptional because he smiled and used a customer name. Surely that should be the norm? There are countless other examples.
BA crew are not the world's best, I'm not sure if such a thing exists. The rifts between crew, and between crew and management, need to be fixed urgently. Ultimately, BA will move on with or without its crew. Ask yourself: 'how easily can BA replace me?' versus 'how easily can I replace BA?'
(My personal opinions, not those of my employer)
BA has created a monster - continually, crew have been told they are 'the best'. You just need to look at in-flight assessments - apparently crew member XYZ is exceptional because he smiled and used a customer name. Surely that should be the norm? There are countless other examples.
BA crew are not the world's best, I'm not sure if such a thing exists. The rifts between crew, and between crew and management, need to be fixed urgently. Ultimately, BA will move on with or without its crew. Ask yourself: 'how easily can BA replace me?' versus 'how easily can I replace BA?'
(My personal opinions, not those of my employer)
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Latest figures
Miss M said
Clearly she hasn't seen the latest stats for September. BA carried more passengers this year than last and more in premium cabins. So much for strike threats affecting forward bookings. 
BASSA going to go on strike ? Only if Unite let them have a ballot. And Unite won't do that because they know that the reason on the ballot paper links it to the previous walkout. BA could then not only sack strikers, they could also come after Unite for compensation. Now given Unite's dodgy finances having spent a small fortune first backing Labour in the election and then backing young Ed for the Labour leadership, plus all the cash they've splurged on this dispute in strike pay and legal fees, coupled with the money they need if they want a round of public services strikes, they may not have much in the kitty to pay BA as well.
If BASSA are determined to take action, Unite may just cut them loose. After all, BASSA aren't looking for a settlement, have cost the union a small bundle to date, damaged Unite's credibility at large by failing to mobilise mass support and could do further damage to the union by any continued action. Moreover, BA seem well placed to nullify the impact of any strike. Unite have bigger fish to fry.
A threat of a possible strike in the future will always have an affect on forward bookings. It's one of our strongest weapon. BA might be able to depart 100% of all WW flights should a strike occur. Customers however will not get what they are paying for. Flights crewed by VCC? VCC are not anywhere near the standards of some of us legacy crew. I have had the pleasure of working with some of them and I should certainly hope they perform better at Waterside or wherever they are based.
BASSA going to go on strike ? Only if Unite let them have a ballot. And Unite won't do that because they know that the reason on the ballot paper links it to the previous walkout. BA could then not only sack strikers, they could also come after Unite for compensation. Now given Unite's dodgy finances having spent a small fortune first backing Labour in the election and then backing young Ed for the Labour leadership, plus all the cash they've splurged on this dispute in strike pay and legal fees, coupled with the money they need if they want a round of public services strikes, they may not have much in the kitty to pay BA as well. If BASSA are determined to take action, Unite may just cut them loose. After all, BASSA aren't looking for a settlement, have cost the union a small bundle to date, damaged Unite's credibility at large by failing to mobilise mass support and could do further damage to the union by any continued action. Moreover, BA seem well placed to nullify the impact of any strike. Unite have bigger fish to fry.