BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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In 2008-09, British Airways made a loss of £401 million, that was compounded by a loss of £531 million in 2009-10.
That is a loss of £932 million over two years up to April 2010.
A loss of £932,000,000 (that is £1,270,000 pounds a day)
So the results for 2010-11 may show a profit of approx £200 million
We are now £700 million down on the last three years trading, and we also need to fund more efficient aircraft, pension deficit, shareholder dividend...the list goes on.
You don't need to look at the books, we will need to manage costs for many years to come to remain in this game and if there are individuals that can't agree with this outlook than I would be interested to know where I am mistaken.
That is a loss of £932 million over two years up to April 2010.
A loss of £932,000,000 (that is £1,270,000 pounds a day)
So the results for 2010-11 may show a profit of approx £200 million
We are now £700 million down on the last three years trading, and we also need to fund more efficient aircraft, pension deficit, shareholder dividend...the list goes on.
You don't need to look at the books, we will need to manage costs for many years to come to remain in this game and if there are individuals that can't agree with this outlook than I would be interested to know where I am mistaken.
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Len McCluskey ( my bold)
BA cabin crew have repeatedly shown that they will not be browbeaten by bullying and legal intimidation. Unite is therefore immediately setting in hand preparations for a further industrial action ballot on the issues arising from management’s breach of agreements and policies of industrial intimidation, including amongst others the withdrawal of staff travel concessions, unjustified and draconian disciplinary sanctions against representatives and other members, the employment of strike-breaking cabin crew on different terms and conditions, the introduction of a new “mixed fleet” of crew again on different terms, and the intention to degrade union representation arrangements among cabin crew.
Then there's the union represention of 'cabin crew'. Len, you and the rest of Unite/Bassa DO NOT represent me. Do you understand.
I'm going to write to LM tomorrow and tell him to please STOP labelling ALL cabin crew under the Unite/Bassa umbrella
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Unite whimps out over a "veiled threat"
LM's letter to members:
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/Lens_le...8_feb_2011.pdf
The company of course are hoping that their latest tactic will debilitate your resolve and make you want to
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/Lens_le...8_feb_2011.pdf
To all Cabin Crew Members at British Airways
Dear colleagues
British Airways Cabin Crew Dispute
You will by now have heard that British Airways has once again chosen the legal route to respond to your massive vote to take industrial action.
Their challenge to our ballot via the Electoral Reform Society carries with it a veiled threat that any action taken by our members would be unprotected, and although we do not accept their assertions we are conscious that we are dealing with an erratic management who are capable of doing anything.
Having consulted with your representatives we are not prepared to put any of you at risk and have therefore decided not to proceed with action based upon this ballot result. As your General Secretary I share your obvious frustrations.
The company of course are hoping that their latest tactic will debilitate your resolve and make you want to
“give up”. They believe they can “break your spirit”. I know differently.
Over the past 18 months I have witnessed your dignity, your determination and your sense of loyalty to each other. It has truly inspired me, and although I am as frustrated as you obviously will be, I am appealing to you not to fall into the company’s trap. Have faith in your values, your representatives and your union.
The company have already been told that we will ballot our cabin Crew once again and this will begin this month.
We have repeatedly told them that it is only through negotiation, not litigation, that a lasting peace can be achieved. Instead of playing games they would be better served in addressing the grievances of their frontline
staff. Contrary to statements they have made there has been no attempt to try to meet with us to resolve outstanding issues. But sooner or later they will get the message that we are not going away, no matter what
they try to throw at you. And sooner or later they will have to account for the damage they are doing to the British Airways brand.
staff. Contrary to statements they have made there has been no attempt to try to meet with us to resolve outstanding issues. But sooner or later they will get the message that we are not going away, no matter what
they try to throw at you. And sooner or later they will have to account for the damage they are doing to the British Airways brand.
Your continued support for one another over this difficult period has been a tremendous tribute to you all, your pride and overwhelming determination to secure a just and fair settlement to your grievances; you can remain assured of mine.
Yours sincerely
Len McCluskey
General SecretaryLen McCluskey
vctenderness I would also like to see the books of BA that claimed we were in financial trouble.. please dont play the moral high ground that you are a loyal subject.. we are all loyal. The fact that thousands took part in Industrial action does not make them disloyal..just like the ground crew who walked out with out a ballot on a wild cat strike.. just like the price fixing, we are all loyal.. when we are at work we are all loyal to our company. However I am standing up with thousands of other for our employee rights and our right to have our voice. other wise we would be back in the victorian days. and the conditions you now work in and under were brought about by people standing up and fighting for those rights. I and thousands of others are choosing to protect those rights and not put greed and profit before the rights of the employees.
Now please answer my question will you ask to see the BASSA accounts as required by the rule book?
This blind avoidance of the problem is very worrying I am afraid.
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Reading Len McLucky's letter above, I sense a worrying change in tone from the Unite leadership, compared to when Tony Woodley was at the helm.
You got the impression that Tony, toward the end, had had enough of BASSA, thought that they had been offered a reasonably ok deal and wanted shot of them and this dispute. Len seems all up for keeping it going as long as possible, maybe to coincide with a summer of co-ordinated industrial strife across the country, in protest to the government's austerity measures.
Are BASSA's members going to be used as pawns in a far bigger political gameplan?
You got the impression that Tony, toward the end, had had enough of BASSA, thought that they had been offered a reasonably ok deal and wanted shot of them and this dispute. Len seems all up for keeping it going as long as possible, maybe to coincide with a summer of co-ordinated industrial strife across the country, in protest to the government's austerity measures.
Are BASSA's members going to be used as pawns in a far bigger political gameplan?
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Now, it's just occured to me that KW said recently that a bonus might be paid to all BA staff not participating in further IA. I maybe wrong, but ISTR that he said it'd be paid at the end of March? Will Unite manage to run the ballot and call people out on strike by then? If not, then BA seems to have done everyone a huge financial favour with their "veiled threat" re the last ballot.
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'British Airways has once again chosen the legal route '
And just what other route could they have taken Len ?
Autobrake low.Dont knock all cabin crew unless you have tried it yourself (which i assume by your comments you haven't)- Flying isn't your normal shift work.
And just what other route could they have taken Len ?
Autobrake low.Dont knock all cabin crew unless you have tried it yourself (which i assume by your comments you haven't)- Flying isn't your normal shift work.
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Our allowances are at a fixed rate of £66 per day. We only get these on trip days. So for a 3 day trip we get 3 lots of £66. We do not get anything for sep days or other training.
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Always someone else's fault
Holley's militia are now blaming ERS for sending the ballots to the wrong number of people. Just where do you think ERS got membership details from? BASSA perhaps?
By my reckoning we are now supposed to blame the following for this shambles of a dispute (in no particular order);
BA pilots
Willie Walsh
Keith Williams
Martin Broughton
Bill Francis
Tony McCarthy
Leadership Team
Asset Protection
Shareholders
"Fat cat" bankers
BA investors
"Mr A320"
Scabs
Strike breakers
VCC
BALPA
High Court judges
HM Courts
Heathrow Police
ERS
CAA
TUC
Brendan Barber
Parliament
Gordon Brown
David Cameron
ConLibs
The Conservative Party
The House of Lords
PWC
PCC(C)
CC89
Phil Schofield and Holly Willoughby
Daily Mail
Tony Woodley
Derek Simpson
Twitter
Face-book
The Great British public
But under no circumstances, ever, EVER blame BASSA, Duncan "hard man" Holley or Lizanne "nice but dim" Malone. EVER.
It's always someone else's fault.
Feel free to add to the list above.
By my reckoning we are now supposed to blame the following for this shambles of a dispute (in no particular order);
BA pilots
Willie Walsh
Keith Williams
Martin Broughton
Bill Francis
Tony McCarthy
Leadership Team
Asset Protection
Shareholders
"Fat cat" bankers
BA investors
"Mr A320"
Scabs
Strike breakers
VCC
BALPA
High Court judges
HM Courts
Heathrow Police
ERS
CAA
TUC
Brendan Barber
Parliament
Gordon Brown
David Cameron
ConLibs
The Conservative Party
The House of Lords
PWC
PCC(C)
CC89
Phil Schofield and Holly Willoughby
Daily Mail
Tony Woodley
Derek Simpson
Face-book
The Great British public
But under no circumstances, ever, EVER blame BASSA, Duncan "hard man" Holley or Lizanne "nice but dim" Malone. EVER.
It's always someone else's fault.
Feel free to add to the list above.
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Storminnorman
You are correct -I have not tried being Cabin Crew. Whilst I disagree with the BASSA stance I am not prepared to volunteer and antagonise the dispute.
I have however worked nights for 6 months on a factory line - been a security guard and even cleaned portaloos in my illustrious working career and I can categorically say that the cabin crew shift work certainly appears infinitely better than any of those!
There may be hard work from time to time as there is with most work but to get beds on the aircraft and generous breaks -and end up in nice hotels and see the world and get very generous salaries to do it - you can see why so many check in agents and other staff members are only too happy to offer their services!
You are correct -I have not tried being Cabin Crew. Whilst I disagree with the BASSA stance I am not prepared to volunteer and antagonise the dispute.
I have however worked nights for 6 months on a factory line - been a security guard and even cleaned portaloos in my illustrious working career and I can categorically say that the cabin crew shift work certainly appears infinitely better than any of those!
There may be hard work from time to time as there is with most work but to get beds on the aircraft and generous breaks -and end up in nice hotels and see the world and get very generous salaries to do it - you can see why so many check in agents and other staff members are only too happy to offer their services!
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Observation from Stormin Norman
You are so right Stormin, it does take a bit of getting used to!
I have flown with VCC and they are absolutely no different to any cabin crew that have just come to WW. Unless you have done it, you simply cannot describe what life is like sometimes living plus 11hrs/minus 8hrs and getting your rest and life sorted downroute.
VCC, everyone, we eventually achieve a regime that suits us but it is a question of what works for you and it takes a few trips to figure that out.
I think you will find that very many VCC will admit to finding the WW experience a whole lot different to the PR view of beaches, five star hotels and ample crew rest in bunks.
Autobrake low. Dont knock all cabin crew unless you have tried it yourself (which i assume by your comments you haven't)- Flying isn't your normal shift work.
I have flown with VCC and they are absolutely no different to any cabin crew that have just come to WW. Unless you have done it, you simply cannot describe what life is like sometimes living plus 11hrs/minus 8hrs and getting your rest and life sorted downroute.
VCC, everyone, we eventually achieve a regime that suits us but it is a question of what works for you and it takes a few trips to figure that out.
I think you will find that very many VCC will admit to finding the WW experience a whole lot different to the PR view of beaches, five star hotels and ample crew rest in bunks.
Last edited by Rover90; 8th Feb 2011 at 23:07.
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I have flown with VCC and they are absolutely no different to any cabin crew that have just come to WW. Unless you have done it, you simply cannot describe what life is like sometimes living plus 11hrs/minus 8hrs and getting your rest and life sorted downroute.
I was recruited to BA when fluency in at least an European language was a requirement to get the job (and as to your knowledge I am fluent in an additional two languages despite what you, or as what pilots, tend to insinuate otherwise).Why can't cabin crew make a career? Why is it fine for pilots, or any other position in this company, to make a career ? I have given 16, almost 17, years to BA. Why, all of the sudden, are some to say that I shouldn't be allowed to make my job a career? Are we all "flying waitresses"?
We don't want do destroy BA. We just want to make a living.gl
Last edited by MissM; 9th Feb 2011 at 02:10.
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I have flown with VCC and they are absolutely no different to any cabin crew that have just come to WW. Unless you have done it, you simply cannot describe what life is like sometimes living plus 11hrs/minus 8hrs and getting your rest and life sorted downroute.
I suppose it's easier when you can bid to work your half a month in a row and then have remaining half a month off. It's different for those of us on WW (with a "computer says no" system) as we don't have a bidding system when they are working us to a maximum.
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Dave3
I admire the determination of you and your colleagues to “stick it out”.
You have principles, as it seems your colleagues have. Principles can and are expensive. People in this world have lost their lives to uphold their principles (think Tiananmen Square, or the current situation in Egypt.) I of course would not advocate that the high principled cabin crew should be snuffed out and would not wish that. Replace “lost lives” with “lost jobs”. A person must have a strong constitution to carry on with their principles to such an extent that it ends with loss of life (job).
A large number of CC have looked at the situation they are in and have decided, that despite their high principles, their families come first (call it common sense if you like). Dave3, a time will come soon when you and your colleagues have to make a decision.
Miss M
We all have careers of some sort. The job market and financial health of a company can determine how those careers go.
Clearly BA wants to have cost effective staff, unfortunately for CC, you as a group were not considered cost effective. CC costs to the company have been shown to be double or more above the market rate. So what is the market rate? It is the rate that can be sustained by the company, whether it be in wages paid (the minimum without haemorrhaging staff) or the highest price obtained on a product (without haemorrhaging customers).
To determine whether you continue your career with BA or choose another airline is up to you. People do move on to improve their careers.
I admire the determination of you and your colleagues to “stick it out”.
You have principles, as it seems your colleagues have. Principles can and are expensive. People in this world have lost their lives to uphold their principles (think Tiananmen Square, or the current situation in Egypt.) I of course would not advocate that the high principled cabin crew should be snuffed out and would not wish that. Replace “lost lives” with “lost jobs”. A person must have a strong constitution to carry on with their principles to such an extent that it ends with loss of life (job).
A large number of CC have looked at the situation they are in and have decided, that despite their high principles, their families come first (call it common sense if you like). Dave3, a time will come soon when you and your colleagues have to make a decision.
Miss M
We all have careers of some sort. The job market and financial health of a company can determine how those careers go.
Clearly BA wants to have cost effective staff, unfortunately for CC, you as a group were not considered cost effective. CC costs to the company have been shown to be double or more above the market rate. So what is the market rate? It is the rate that can be sustained by the company, whether it be in wages paid (the minimum without haemorrhaging staff) or the highest price obtained on a product (without haemorrhaging customers).
To determine whether you continue your career with BA or choose another airline is up to you. People do move on to improve their careers.
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BASSAwitch,
Fantastic !. As a former GMB senior rep and former Airline manager I can see both sides to the story. The problem is, BASSA have misled their membership so badley, it's criminal . Honest to God, I have never witnessed such bad union leadership in all my life. I am a Pilot, it's true, however, I also support unionism, but I have to say, what a bunch of hot headed idiots the top tier of BASSA have been over this dispute.
I feel sorry for the 45 ish odd per cent of the total BA Cabin crew, that actually voted for strike action. You can be sure that push comes to shove, only half again will actually put their money where their mouth is. And when they do, I admire their conviction.
That's the world we live in folks. Mortgages have to be paid. Other halfs have lost jobs, ( see public sector ) kids have to be fed and most of all, we have to make ends meet.
We are ALL lucky in this climate, to have decent, honest to God jobs, my friends.
Remember this, it's hard to let go. Think outside the box. Think miners and imagine yourself with NO income, devorce, depression and maybe worse. This is no joke. This country and indeed the world is in not a happy place. What effect would that have on your lifestyle, family, living standards ? Catastrophic predictions I hear you say ?
Think about it. I lived through it and it wasn't pretty.
Take care my friends,
Fantastic !. As a former GMB senior rep and former Airline manager I can see both sides to the story. The problem is, BASSA have misled their membership so badley, it's criminal . Honest to God, I have never witnessed such bad union leadership in all my life. I am a Pilot, it's true, however, I also support unionism, but I have to say, what a bunch of hot headed idiots the top tier of BASSA have been over this dispute.
I feel sorry for the 45 ish odd per cent of the total BA Cabin crew, that actually voted for strike action. You can be sure that push comes to shove, only half again will actually put their money where their mouth is. And when they do, I admire their conviction.
That's the world we live in folks. Mortgages have to be paid. Other halfs have lost jobs, ( see public sector ) kids have to be fed and most of all, we have to make ends meet.
We are ALL lucky in this climate, to have decent, honest to God jobs, my friends.
Remember this, it's hard to let go. Think outside the box. Think miners and imagine yourself with NO income, devorce, depression and maybe worse. This is no joke. This country and indeed the world is in not a happy place. What effect would that have on your lifestyle, family, living standards ? Catastrophic predictions I hear you say ?
Think about it. I lived through it and it wasn't pretty.
Take care my friends,
Last edited by hongkongfuey01; 9th Feb 2011 at 05:40.
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It's different for those of us on WW (with a "computer says no" system) as we don't have a bidding system
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Miss M
I think what you have said lies at the heart of the problem. Cabin Crew who joined BA in the past feel that they embarked on a career as cabin crew and it should be possible to continue.
As in most jobs the selection criteria, in your case language fluency have changed. I think over the last 15-20 years most jobs have had alterations to their initial selection requirements. Unfortunately in the case of cabin crew that fluency is a nicety not a necessity.
If you would like to compare careers, I think many people outside aviation would consider 16-17 years in the same job to be incredible stability. The fact that only now are you being asked to consider if the potential change in lifestyle (not pay, as nowhere has it been stated that you will lose money despite the BASSA rhetoric) is no longer compatible with your ambition. In any other job, including being a pilot those decisions are all part of the process.
Things change, the business model adapts and the cost base does too. The demographic within the company has altered incredibly and if time to promotion etc do not suit you then it's time to look if those ambitions can be fulfilled elsewhere.
What this dispute has highlighted is that unlike other roles many BA cabin crew feel that their career stability and path is owed to them by nature of long service. It is up the the company to modify its business model to maintain their lifestyle rather than the other way around. I find it hard to believe that intelligent, generally well read individuals actually expect that in the modern world.
BASSA has hastened the advent of a new tranch of crew, they even requested it when they wanted the numbers allowed to leave under VR to be replaced to get the numbers on board back.
They missed their chance to negotiate a crew wide allowance schedule that would have made it comparable to put new and old contract crew on all routes and so have made the old contract less economically sustainable.
All these things are not the company eating at your pay/lifestyle and so career but BASSA not seeing the future and mitigating the threats to you.
I felt truly sorry for crew at the start of this dispute who were let unsuspecting to a 12 days of Christmas strike. Post that I feel sorry that those decent people have been led by such appallingly self obsessed union leadership who clearly cannot see what consequences they are bringing on their members. I feel almost ashamed that those, still holding membership have not brought to task their leaders and demanded not only explanations but direct answers to why 3 ballots held under simple existing law cannot be run legally. Simply why are they allowing the reputation of themselves to be soiled so badly.
Unfortunately that mud sticks, not just to the individuals but to us as a company. The outwardly inexplicable continuation of this idiocy taints us all. Possible another great reason why so many VCC's are still volunteering.
My apologise for the rant, and I know it is possible a futile exercise but the smiles at work hide a deep frustration. I hope this is over and soon, but until your colleagues realise your employer owes you the money for the work you do and does not OWE you a lifestyle or career I fear this will continue. It's your decision to take what they offer or find better elsewhere.
Good luck
Jazzy
I think what you have said lies at the heart of the problem. Cabin Crew who joined BA in the past feel that they embarked on a career as cabin crew and it should be possible to continue.
As in most jobs the selection criteria, in your case language fluency have changed. I think over the last 15-20 years most jobs have had alterations to their initial selection requirements. Unfortunately in the case of cabin crew that fluency is a nicety not a necessity.
If you would like to compare careers, I think many people outside aviation would consider 16-17 years in the same job to be incredible stability. The fact that only now are you being asked to consider if the potential change in lifestyle (not pay, as nowhere has it been stated that you will lose money despite the BASSA rhetoric) is no longer compatible with your ambition. In any other job, including being a pilot those decisions are all part of the process.
Things change, the business model adapts and the cost base does too. The demographic within the company has altered incredibly and if time to promotion etc do not suit you then it's time to look if those ambitions can be fulfilled elsewhere.
What this dispute has highlighted is that unlike other roles many BA cabin crew feel that their career stability and path is owed to them by nature of long service. It is up the the company to modify its business model to maintain their lifestyle rather than the other way around. I find it hard to believe that intelligent, generally well read individuals actually expect that in the modern world.
BASSA has hastened the advent of a new tranch of crew, they even requested it when they wanted the numbers allowed to leave under VR to be replaced to get the numbers on board back.
They missed their chance to negotiate a crew wide allowance schedule that would have made it comparable to put new and old contract crew on all routes and so have made the old contract less economically sustainable.
All these things are not the company eating at your pay/lifestyle and so career but BASSA not seeing the future and mitigating the threats to you.
I felt truly sorry for crew at the start of this dispute who were let unsuspecting to a 12 days of Christmas strike. Post that I feel sorry that those decent people have been led by such appallingly self obsessed union leadership who clearly cannot see what consequences they are bringing on their members. I feel almost ashamed that those, still holding membership have not brought to task their leaders and demanded not only explanations but direct answers to why 3 ballots held under simple existing law cannot be run legally. Simply why are they allowing the reputation of themselves to be soiled so badly.
Unfortunately that mud sticks, not just to the individuals but to us as a company. The outwardly inexplicable continuation of this idiocy taints us all. Possible another great reason why so many VCC's are still volunteering.
My apologise for the rant, and I know it is possible a futile exercise but the smiles at work hide a deep frustration. I hope this is over and soon, but until your colleagues realise your employer owes you the money for the work you do and does not OWE you a lifestyle or career I fear this will continue. It's your decision to take what they offer or find better elsewhere.
Good luck
Jazzy
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I suppose it's easier when you can bid to work your half a month in a row and then have remaining half a month off. It's different for those of us on WW (with a "computer says no" system) as we don't have a bidding system when they are working us to a maximum.
Almost every other airline has a crew bidding system, and BA used one for mid-fleet (and I believe plans are to introduce one for mixed fleet).
Why don't crew have a bidding / swapping system?
Because their reps don't want one!
Bassa reps choose their trips, and can drop any they don't want - to then replace with any good trips available. Why would they want a fair and equitable system for all crew?
So MissM. Time to get real. If you're as intelligent and educated as many crew keep telling us then ask some searching questions. Like.
Where are the Bassa accounts
How much does DH take as income, and when will some real elections take place
Blame your own reps.
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While I can not believe we have to suffer the pain and waiting of yet another ballot I guess it means that a membership count is underway. BA reckon that 2500 have already cancelled their payroll contributions and that was presumably before DH's FIFO message. It also doesn't include the droves who have headed out of Amicus because they are not subject to payroll deductions. What will the final headcount be? They won't be able to hide the numbers because the ERS will declare how many are balloted.
If it's only the YES voters left (and that's assuming none are upset over yet another c*** up in the ballot) then the actual number could be less than 25% of the community.
Will anyone notice if they all withhold their labour for the rest of the year?
If it's only the YES voters left (and that's assuming none are upset over yet another c*** up in the ballot) then the actual number could be less than 25% of the community.
Will anyone notice if they all withhold their labour for the rest of the year?