British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Take note BASSA
With reference to the BAA situ-
That's the mature way to 'negotiate'. Look the word up in the dictionary. Just above it, you'll observe 'negligible'. Another apt word should you continue your belligerence and IA.
"I think it's a deal that is a fair reward for our staff, but it's also a deal that the company can afford."
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It will be interesting to see what final percentage rise they settled on.
Not sure how UNITE can publically sell settling for say 2.5% with BAA staff yet still not recommending the BA deal with a 3% rise for two years running.
Publically it will look like greed.
Not sure how UNITE can publically sell settling for say 2.5% with BAA staff yet still not recommending the BA deal with a 3% rise for two years running.
Publically it will look like greed.
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Another Mistake?
Been away from here for a few weeks, but interestingly a couple of weeks ago I got a letter from Unite stating that ' as I had not been a member for over 6 months, I was now excluded from the union'. However I only resigned a few weeks ago. Just a coincidence perhaps but I most certainly did not resign way back in January. If I had done, how come I received a ballot paper in the recent poll re BA offer and polls for the proposed strikes. The plot just thickens!
On a different note I would love to be a fly on the wall at the meeting on the 6th Sept. Then again if I'm off I might just turn up and watch the proceedings from the back, after all there are no checks on whether you are a member (current or not) when you go along are there. Wonder if anyone brave enough to question DH on anything different rather than his tomatoes, drinking habits or diet!
On a different note I would love to be a fly on the wall at the meeting on the 6th Sept. Then again if I'm off I might just turn up and watch the proceedings from the back, after all there are no checks on whether you are a member (current or not) when you go along are there. Wonder if anyone brave enough to question DH on anything different rather than his tomatoes, drinking habits or diet!
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The Walsh Factor
I am very disappointed that UNITE are able to clinch a deal with the BAA but not with BA.
Both the BAA and BT avoided strikes by negotiating with the unions, but Mr Walsh just trains up people to go to war. £200 million and still deadlock with BASSA. Could it be that Walsh is the problem?
Why have you signed the deal Ottergirl? I thought it was terrible. Only 1100 went for it, not surprising really. What will you do if BASSA get a better deal?
Both the BAA and BT avoided strikes by negotiating with the unions, but Mr Walsh just trains up people to go to war. £200 million and still deadlock with BASSA. Could it be that Walsh is the problem?
Why have you signed the deal Ottergirl? I thought it was terrible. Only 1100 went for it, not surprising really. What will you do if BASSA get a better deal?
UNITE / the BAA staff have just signed a deal that is worse than the current offer from BA to their cabin crew.
If it was good enough for them, why is the better deal not good enough for BASSA / CC? This proves that it is not the BA CEO that is the problem, but the wayward branch of UNITE.
Why can't you see this?
LD
If it was good enough for them, why is the better deal not good enough for BASSA / CC? This proves that it is not the BA CEO that is the problem, but the wayward branch of UNITE.
Why can't you see this?
LD
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If you are disappointed that Unite reached an agreement with everyone but BA, then have a look what the others agreed on. And go and talk to Unite and ask them to agree as well to what we are given. We accepted this offer (although better offers have been put on the table and got rejected from Bassa without you even having a chance to see them) because it is simply the last offer. You see, some of us believe our employer and not a "ghost" Union... I wonder who they will have to represent in 6 months time when all the members are away...or who will represent any existing members!
And a final question... Why when we get rid of a troll, another one appears?
Welcome back HV!!!
And a final question... Why when we get rid of a troll, another one appears?
Welcome back HV!!!
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I read that wen Willie Walsh was a union negotiator he was quoted as saying that "you get nowhere in negotiations by being reasonable".
Perhaps his unreasonable behaviour is the real reason why other companies can negotiate a deal without inconveniencing customers and causing the company to lose hundreds of millions in strike costs?
Neither BT or the BAA knowing that a strike was possible, spent millions training strike breaking staff and then provoking a strike seemingly. It is madness to spend so much money when BA is suppposed to be hard up. What is the point of cost cutting if you spend so much achieving it?
Another CEO would not have bgot BA into such a mess.
What is our CEo going to do with all the people, some flown in from the USA, to keep them in recency? If there is no strike consequently, will Walsh take responsibility for his decision to train up all these other staff and the associated costs?
Perhaps his unreasonable behaviour is the real reason why other companies can negotiate a deal without inconveniencing customers and causing the company to lose hundreds of millions in strike costs?
Neither BT or the BAA knowing that a strike was possible, spent millions training strike breaking staff and then provoking a strike seemingly. It is madness to spend so much money when BA is suppposed to be hard up. What is the point of cost cutting if you spend so much achieving it?
Another CEO would not have bgot BA into such a mess.
What is our CEo going to do with all the people, some flown in from the USA, to keep them in recency? If there is no strike consequently, will Walsh take responsibility for his decision to train up all these other staff and the associated costs?
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Lady BA BA. Sweetie, Hun,...think long term, darling. 
Mr Walsh has managed to cut out a tremendous amount of cost - more than he could have dreamed of this time last year - by imposition, and the early introduction of MF. And I'll tell you summat else - there could be whole lot more savings to be had if he really was to go nuclear. Current CC have a lot to be grateful for in his magnanimity, given BASSA's witlessness (IMHO)....so far. I hope BASSA do not think there is still mileage to be had.
As for forward bookings? - God only knows how that's going to pan out.
Mr Walsh has managed to cut out a tremendous amount of cost - more than he could have dreamed of this time last year - by imposition, and the early introduction of MF. And I'll tell you summat else - there could be whole lot more savings to be had if he really was to go nuclear. Current CC have a lot to be grateful for in his magnanimity, given BASSA's witlessness (IMHO)....so far. I hope BASSA do not think there is still mileage to be had.
As for forward bookings? - God only knows how that's going to pan out.
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Ahem, point of order, it's not 'his' (your) 'our' company.
However, there is an awful lot of folk out on the front line trying their butts off to lift the reputation of BA out of the wreckage caused by the BASSA brigade. IMHO of course.
However, there is an awful lot of folk out on the front line trying their butts off to lift the reputation of BA out of the wreckage caused by the BASSA brigade. IMHO of course.
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Yes, cost cutting is difficult, yet the alchemist Walsh has succeeded in cutting costs from ground staff, engineers, management, pilots, suppliers and landlords and reached a pensions settlement without industrial unrest. Of course everybody knew that BASSA would cause trouble as they are utterly resistant to efficiencies (4hr turnaround on EF anyone?) so his performance measure there has been on whether he can beat BASSA. And he has done so. His reward is promotion to CEO of IAG.
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Lady BA BA
Both the BAA and BT avoided strikes by negotiating with the unions, but Mr Walsh just trains up people to go to war. £200 million and still deadlock with BASSA. Could it be that Walsh is the problem?
And how do you negotiate with a branch like BASSA with their fingers in their ears constantly.
Why is it only BASSA that will not play ball? The rest of us have done our bit and continue to do so. Don't under estimate the strength of feeling here. Hence, the VCC's.
Yes, like the board, the city, the staff and public, we are on Willie's side on this issue.
Cost cutting is easy
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There was a post by "Lady BA BA" that referred to the approx 1100 non union members that have signed up to their existing terms and conditions (with some safeguards) offered by Bill Francis. Lady BA BA went on to note that he/she would agree with that figure as he/she estimated that 70/80% of the crew that he/she flew with were strikers. The post has subsequently been removed.
In my humble experience, when you meet a crew for the first time, 100% are strikers. During the course of the flight and as a result of general chat it appears that the 100% starts to erode a little until at the end of the trip when the non-strikers get to know of each other, the probable percentasge of crew members who took industrial action is more like 35-40%.
Anybody else had that experience?
The 1100 crew members that have just signed up to the very good safety net by virtue of the fact that they were not BASSA members on 25th Jun 2010 must feel they have done the right thing. How many more would perhaps like to get their signature on a document that promises a continuation of their existing terms and conditions.
If this goes to the 90 day scenario, just curious what the content of the document that is issued will contain. In short, it could contain absolutely anything, even an invitation to join Mixed Fleet, take it or leave it.
Many will respond with points of view that strenuously deny this, but this is actually where we are at the moment and it is where BASSA have placed us.
In my humble experience, when you meet a crew for the first time, 100% are strikers. During the course of the flight and as a result of general chat it appears that the 100% starts to erode a little until at the end of the trip when the non-strikers get to know of each other, the probable percentasge of crew members who took industrial action is more like 35-40%.
Anybody else had that experience?
The 1100 crew members that have just signed up to the very good safety net by virtue of the fact that they were not BASSA members on 25th Jun 2010 must feel they have done the right thing. How many more would perhaps like to get their signature on a document that promises a continuation of their existing terms and conditions.
If this goes to the 90 day scenario, just curious what the content of the document that is issued will contain. In short, it could contain absolutely anything, even an invitation to join Mixed Fleet, take it or leave it.
Many will respond with points of view that strenuously deny this, but this is actually where we are at the moment and it is where BASSA have placed us.
Last edited by Rover90; 17th Aug 2010 at 19:42. Reason: typos
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One final thing......
Lady BA BA wrote:
The answer is that the 1100 will get the improved terms...it actually states that in the document...but it is surely unlikely that BASSA will do better.
Perhaps someone will shout out what the downside is for the 1100 who have put their signature to a document that ensures their current terms and conditions......
Quiet isn't it!
Only 1100 went for it, not surprising really. What will you do if BASSA get a better deal?
Perhaps someone will shout out what the downside is for the 1100 who have put their signature to a document that ensures their current terms and conditions......
Quiet isn't it!
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I read that wen Willie Walsh was a union negotiator he was quoted as saying that "you get nowhere in negotiations by being reasonable".
Look at WW's track record at BA. Lots of significant changes agreed with the unions without all hell breaking loose.
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Getting only 1100 crew to sign up is hardly a great victory. They are irrelevant anyway, as most onloy have a few years left in the company and don't care about the future. It just shows the working of a mind that can even think such an action is worthwhile, dividing the workforce further and making industrial relations more difficult to heal in the future.
Quite honestly he is a pathetic little man that views point scoring as more important than settling a costly dispute that he alone has escalated by his rhetoric and actions. Hundreds of millions down the drain, even more spent training strike breakers that may not be needed and untold damage to the brand. Other CEO's must look at Willie Walsh and wince. Why didn't Ian Livingstone CEO of BT take on the CWU and bust the union out of the company? Why have the BAA given in so easily to UNITE?
The reason why this dispute has not been settled is because of the vindictive nature Walsh has adopted in punishing strikers. Both the BAA and BT disputes were over PAY RISES. BA crew just want a fair deal that is not disproportionate to other departments in the company.
Quite honestly he is a pathetic little man that views point scoring as more important than settling a costly dispute that he alone has escalated by his rhetoric and actions. Hundreds of millions down the drain, even more spent training strike breakers that may not be needed and untold damage to the brand. Other CEO's must look at Willie Walsh and wince. Why didn't Ian Livingstone CEO of BT take on the CWU and bust the union out of the company? Why have the BAA given in so easily to UNITE?
The reason why this dispute has not been settled is because of the vindictive nature Walsh has adopted in punishing strikers. Both the BAA and BT disputes were over PAY RISES. BA crew just want a fair deal that is not disproportionate to other departments in the company.