British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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HiFlyer,
Erm...yes, I do actually. I'm not asking for names. I would just like to know how many LGW crew are involved in the organising of PCCC. Coming from a base that has always played second fiddle to LHR as far as BASSA are concerned, I would like to know that there is someone at the top table that not only knows our agreements inside out but that has also worked to them and knows the issues we have. Surely that is not unreasonable, is it?
However, if you feel that you are unable to reveal that, then that's fine. I shall let it rest.
Erm...yes, I do actually. I'm not asking for names. I would just like to know how many LGW crew are involved in the organising of PCCC. Coming from a base that has always played second fiddle to LHR as far as BASSA are concerned, I would like to know that there is someone at the top table that not only knows our agreements inside out but that has also worked to them and knows the issues we have. Surely that is not unreasonable, is it?
However, if you feel that you are unable to reveal that, then that's fine. I shall let it rest.
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As I said, if the only people they're planning to call out on strike (in the event of a 'yes' vote) at LGW are those who lost their staff travel, the lawful way to conduct things would be to only ballot those people
So how are BASSA going to ballot only those members at LGW who lost their staff travel as a result of going on strike? How are they going to know who to send the ballot papers to and who not to?
The way that I see it is that only a few people (9? I could be wrong here)actually went on strike at LGW but I am assuming that BASSA have a lot more members than that at LGW (at the moment).
So, if they are only going to ballot the members who actually lost their staff travel as a result of going on strike... how are they going to know who those people are?
The only way I can see them getting around this is to ballot the whole LGW membership.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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So, if they are only going to ballot the members who actually lost their staff travel as a result of going on strike... how are they going to know who those people are?
All BASSA needs to do is ask people to provide a copy of that letter so that they're included in the ballot.
Surely you can't only ballot those who you know will return a YES vote!
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Tiramasu
you seem to be praising the PCCC alot recently
any reason?
you seem to be praising the PCCC alot recently
any reason?
As a signed up member of the PCCC and not having been with a Union for six years, I'm hoping that the PCCC gather momentum and gain recognition from BA. I know that there are many crew who are in the same boat as me.
I have also had enough of the BASSA bullies and would like to see a more reasonable approach and better representation for all of us.
With Mixed Fleet here, who do we have now who will negotiate and represent us?
It's time for change.
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Presumably people were sent a letter by BA officially advising them of their loss of staff travel.
All BASSA needs to do is ask people to provide a copy of that letter so that they're included in the ballot.
All BASSA needs to do is ask people to provide a copy of that letter so that they're included in the ballot.
1. Who kept their letter? some may have thrown it away.
2. Someone may forge a letter to get a vote ( just looking at all possibilities).
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This seems quite an unsual way of conducting a ballot? This could be fraught with problems:
1. Who kept their letter? some may have thrown it away.
2. Someone may forge a letter to get a vote ( just looking at all possibilities).
1. Who kept their letter? some may have thrown it away.
2. Someone may forge a letter to get a vote ( just looking at all possibilities).
No, they'd have a better way for sure ??
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Not to mention how long it would take to identify everyone who received a letter !!
No, they'd have a better way for sure ??
No, they'd have a better way for sure ??
Besides didn't those people have salary deductions as well as loss of ST for being on strike? They must have some evidence of loss of earnings. Don't they need to submit it when claiming strike pay?
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Oh Dear ...
BASSA have put themselves and Unite in a right pickle. They have to include the poor souls at LGW who went on strike because otherwise they wouldn't get there staff travel returned in the unlikely even that BA caves in. However, there is a huge inconsistency in the way that the ballot has been called in that they are covering all of LHR but only a handful of L:GW. Whilst this may be legit, it does give the impression that the union has written off the prospect of any support from LGW. Not a good thng for Unite (remember, it's Unite that are calling the strike ballot, not BASSA or CC89) . Can they identify who went on strike ? I should hope so. Theyare supposed to have been paying striking crew Ģ30 or Ģ45 a day in strike pay. I would have expected them to have kept an accurate record for HMRC as to who they had paid. I believe that in order to get strikepay, crew needed to show payslips indicating that they had lost pay from BA. The sticky point will be if there are any staff at LGW who did not strike first time around, but did on the more recent days. A lot depends on whether BA has actually withdrawn staff travel from them. All told the ballot is on dodgy ground. Just depends whether BA can be bothered to make a song and dance about it, or whether they will just use alternate crew to once again break the strike (assuming that Unite can secure a majority).
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Can they identify who went on strike ?
Poor show.
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Didn't someone say there were only 9 people? Hardly the most onerous of tasks to check 9 letters.
I can see your point about the members who went on strike at LGW being identified by their strike pay claims.
I still think its a strange way to conduct a ballot, though. Has anyone heard of any comparable examples to this? I would be very interested in hearing about them.
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It's going to be extremely interesting to learn the result of the forthcoming ballot, and I'm gutted it's going to take as long as a month before we get anything back.
The last two times I flew during a strike, there were a few crew members on my trips who had gone on strike in the past, lost staff travel, but decided that enough was enough and that they'd lost faith in Bassa.
So I cannot help but wonder how these people are likely to vote?!
They see no point in striking and have made that clear by coming to work.... But without a strike they will probably wave goodbye to their staff travel forever (
) If there's a no-vote for the next ballot, the company will stop considering any form of return of staff travel so everyone who has lost staff travel thus far will be voting, effectively, for it to be gone for good.
However, if they vote in favour of a strike to get staff travel back, well, Walsh has already shown that he can run the operation rather well despite the industrial action because of support from crew and other areas of the business. So the company keeps running, the strike comes to an end with lots of crew struggling to pay their bills, and staff travel remains a distant memory.
I flew with a guy on a strike-trip who said he had come to work and sent Mr. Francis an email asking for the return of his staff travel, considering his decision to return to work.
I don't know the outcome, though.
And let's just remember that, in the past, Bassa told us all that staff travel "couldn't be removed", that if it were removed it could "be got back in five seconds" and that its removal is "illegal". So why not go to court and humiliate Walsh if they're so sure?
I maintain a great deal of respect for my colleagues who have chosen to go on strike to stand up for what they believe in, but I wish they'd realise that this one is over.
There's almost bound to be another opportunity in the future to stand up against the company and many of those crew who have worked during this dispute will join the number on the picket lines; but this one is over.
The last two times I flew during a strike, there were a few crew members on my trips who had gone on strike in the past, lost staff travel, but decided that enough was enough and that they'd lost faith in Bassa.
So I cannot help but wonder how these people are likely to vote?!
They see no point in striking and have made that clear by coming to work.... But without a strike they will probably wave goodbye to their staff travel forever (
) If there's a no-vote for the next ballot, the company will stop considering any form of return of staff travel so everyone who has lost staff travel thus far will be voting, effectively, for it to be gone for good. However, if they vote in favour of a strike to get staff travel back, well, Walsh has already shown that he can run the operation rather well despite the industrial action because of support from crew and other areas of the business. So the company keeps running, the strike comes to an end with lots of crew struggling to pay their bills, and staff travel remains a distant memory.
I flew with a guy on a strike-trip who said he had come to work and sent Mr. Francis an email asking for the return of his staff travel, considering his decision to return to work.
I don't know the outcome, though.
And let's just remember that, in the past, Bassa told us all that staff travel "couldn't be removed", that if it were removed it could "be got back in five seconds" and that its removal is "illegal". So why not go to court and humiliate Walsh if they're so sure?
I maintain a great deal of respect for my colleagues who have chosen to go on strike to stand up for what they believe in, but I wish they'd realise that this one is over.
There's almost bound to be another opportunity in the future to stand up against the company and many of those crew who have worked during this dispute will join the number on the picket lines; but this one is over.
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I still think its a strange way to conduct a ballot, though.
It looks like an admission that not only have they failed to convince the bulk of the wider public of merits their case in the dispute and failed to convince the bulk of their colleagues in the rest of the airline, they don't even appear to have the support of all but a few of their colleagues in the same department at a different base.
Last edited by DeThirdDefect; 23rd Jun 2010 at 23:00.
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Hiflyer14,
I understand your point of view, but I also understand the point of view of the average CC, even if they are not happy with BASSA. BASSA is a BA-only CC association, federated into the UNITE union (previously T&GWU). If I was crew and they asked me to join a bargaining group that is not in any big union, I would be quite reticent to do so. Has it got the financial power to carry out their tasks? Can they offer all the services that unions are capable of, like legal services? Have they got the infrastructure and money to train their reps and employ the administrative staff they need?
If the PCCC wants to represent cabin crew properly (and this is my opinion only, Hiflyer) it has to be integrated into a bigger union (Unite, GMB, RMT, whatever) for it to have real bargaining power. CC and BA are equally not happy with BASSA, but both parties still recognise Unite as a valid representation body. Personally, I would need much more than the prospect of getting rid of BASSA and being the voice of BA CC. I would need assurance that the PCCC is included in the legal framework for bargaining, and today, that can only be achieved by belonging to well-established union.
PCCC as an association of staff can only make suggestions to the company, PCCC as part of a union, have the legal right and means to negotiate. People will not join just because BASSA screwed up this time, they will want a version of BASSA that wonīt screw up. What Iīve heard from some friends is that PCCC is a good idea, but the fact that itīs shown as an alternative to BASSA, and the rethoric it uses, makes people think that itīs an anti-union, exclusive CC club that will work with the company no matter what, even in the face of real threats. Thatīs what is scaring them off. So I believe the question would be, are you prepared to integrate into a big union to have the negotiating framework once you get the right number of affiliations? Or are you planning to stay as a BA only CC association without bargaining power? This is very important for many people.
WW was a former union negotiator. I believe he knows of the problems involved with sectorial representation of the workforce. He still prefers Unite as a bargaining force in BA, he just wants to get rid of the BASSA hard liners.
I understand your point of view, but I also understand the point of view of the average CC, even if they are not happy with BASSA. BASSA is a BA-only CC association, federated into the UNITE union (previously T&GWU). If I was crew and they asked me to join a bargaining group that is not in any big union, I would be quite reticent to do so. Has it got the financial power to carry out their tasks? Can they offer all the services that unions are capable of, like legal services? Have they got the infrastructure and money to train their reps and employ the administrative staff they need?
If the PCCC wants to represent cabin crew properly (and this is my opinion only, Hiflyer) it has to be integrated into a bigger union (Unite, GMB, RMT, whatever) for it to have real bargaining power. CC and BA are equally not happy with BASSA, but both parties still recognise Unite as a valid representation body. Personally, I would need much more than the prospect of getting rid of BASSA and being the voice of BA CC. I would need assurance that the PCCC is included in the legal framework for bargaining, and today, that can only be achieved by belonging to well-established union.
PCCC as an association of staff can only make suggestions to the company, PCCC as part of a union, have the legal right and means to negotiate. People will not join just because BASSA screwed up this time, they will want a version of BASSA that wonīt screw up. What Iīve heard from some friends is that PCCC is a good idea, but the fact that itīs shown as an alternative to BASSA, and the rethoric it uses, makes people think that itīs an anti-union, exclusive CC club that will work with the company no matter what, even in the face of real threats. Thatīs what is scaring them off. So I believe the question would be, are you prepared to integrate into a big union to have the negotiating framework once you get the right number of affiliations? Or are you planning to stay as a BA only CC association without bargaining power? This is very important for many people.
WW was a former union negotiator. I believe he knows of the problems involved with sectorial representation of the workforce. He still prefers Unite as a bargaining force in BA, he just wants to get rid of the BASSA hard liners.
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initially, only BA staff can apply for cabin crew posts
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Mixed Fleet
I can confirm th following
The Ex Temps in the hold pool have been invited to pick an assessment day for MF, they didn't have to complete the online application form and have been told if they are successful at assessment they will get permanent MF.
Current Temps - Can apply internally as can other existing BA cc, BUT, we have to complete the application form to be able to chosen for assessment.
My question is this, how come folk outside the company (ex temps), be able to bypass the application form stage but those in BA need to complete this??
The Ex Temps in the hold pool have been invited to pick an assessment day for MF, they didn't have to complete the online application form and have been told if they are successful at assessment they will get permanent MF.
Current Temps - Can apply internally as can other existing BA cc, BUT, we have to complete the application form to be able to chosen for assessment.
My question is this, how come folk outside the company (ex temps), be able to bypass the application form stage but those in BA need to complete this??