British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

[Juan Tugoh]

The website states that the mixed fleet will (at least initially) operate A320 series and B777 aircraft, so that rules out some routes moving over.
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At least until the fleet plans are published for next summer - so lets say 10 months?

[Juan Tugoh]

So, shall we leave the unsubstantiated scaremongering to BASSA? They do enough without anyone else joining in.

No it's far more fun when we all join in!

How about the next round of CR which will only affect Old Fleet?

[Juan Tugoh]

Fly12345

sorry next time I will put smiley faces on everything for the hard of thinking.

[License to Fly]

crystal ball ...

Whilst its is very sad certain CC will be faced with a rapidly changing job, I think BASSA must take alot of responsibility for this. If they had evolved with a changing airline industry this would probably not be happening now

WW has been very calm and collected through this dispute and I think he has been waiting for this moment - the moment that many CC will not feel anger against BA, but against the union for not sorting out a fair deal.

In my crystal ball i can see :-

-mixed fleet having a large number of routes in 12 months time.
-old fleet CC will be going to same places alot/places that do not earn much money
-old fleet not being utilised as much as they can be (like the shorthaul CSD's are now), thus restricting the pay of the old fleet crew
-many current CC will have joined Mixed Fleet as it will offer them a promotion (that would not have been there otherwise) and higher wages for them.
-all part time requests will be approved, enabling new fleet to grow quicker
-all new planes (787/380) will be new fleet
-high standard of performance management brought in to all fleets
-BASSA membership may dwindle due to the above and a new (modern) union could be born which will look at sensible negotiations for the benefit of CC and BA

if BA has brought this out of the blue, who's knows what is possible over the coming months...

LTF

[Caribbean Boy]

I don't see Mixed Fleet expanding rapidly. For cabin crew, the starting salary is only £11,000pa and the flying allowance £2.40ph, so most of the existing cabin crew will have to take a pay cut if they join as no pay differential will be paid. Part-time crew may find that they won't be offered a part-time contract.

Furthermore, there will be no transfer from existing fleets, so everyone must apply for jobs (with no guarantee of success) which are now advertised in eJobscan (see https://jobsadmin.baplc.com/eJobscan/).

If you want to apply, get your CVs up-to-date!

[fruitbat]

Yes, true for BA applicants. However, these positions are being advertised to external applicants as well. I'm sure the conditions are better than many airlines, even at this level. And remember there is to be a bidding system, so people will have some say over their trips/days off.

[Caribbean Boy]

I don't see a large number of external crew being recruited as this would blow the IFCE budget - which is already under strain. Initially, only BA staff can apply for cabin crew posts. My guess is that external candidates will be able to apply only when the number of successful internal applicants is known.

[Hotel Mode]

I don't see Mixed Fleet expanding rapidly. For cabin crew, the starting salary is only £11,000pa and the flying allowance £2.40ph, so most of the existing cabin crew will have to take a pay cut if they join as no pay differential will be paid. Part-time crew may find that they won't be offered a part-time contract.

Many BA main crew will be able to apply for the cabin manager role. At 25k that will be very attractive.

Main Crew:
36+ months full time or equivalent as BA Cabin Crew within the last 6 years, plus 12+ months experience in a people management or leadership role (internally or externally to BA) within the last 6 years - to include team, performance and resource management.

Many recruited in the last 6 years have that experience.

[Chigley]

I expect that mixed fleet will really grow when we start seeing expansion in the business again. Until then it will be relatively small scale. Yes, some current crew will seize the opportunity for promotion, and for some it will be a great opportunity.

I can't see old fleet being 'starved' of work either as BA will be effectively paying two people to do one job? And if we are being paid MTP then does it matter if you fly to DXB when your being paid and average payment that includes a NRT/HKG? Another reason why I can't see it happening.

Also, IMO EF CSD's have been 'starved' of work because they have not been getting fair share of the SCCM workload. The company has wanted to discuss the Single Supervisory role for sometime but BASSA have always blocked any talks. Hence the CSD's have only been working CSD a/c and not doing an equal share of the airbus work. Another area of the workforce let down by the union.

I do think p/t and even further offers of VR in the future will be incentives for current crew which will inevitably shrink the existing fleets. But I still think that the presentation at the Investor Day is closer to reality.

After all I was told before the strike in '97 that we would all be forced on to cheaper contracts and I would never get promotion - the scare mongering then is no different from now, needless to say it was all rubbish.

[Hotel Mode]

I don't see a large number of external crew being recruited as this would blow the IFCE budget - which is already under strain. Initially, only BA staff can apply for cabin crew posts. My guess is that external candidates will be able to apply only when the number of successful internal applicants is known.

External recruitment has also started.

Here

[Caribbean Boy]

The only job which is being offered externally is Mixed Fleet Customer Service Manager. It is Band 3, salary £25,000pa. You can only get an email alert for cabin crew jobs.

[Bluejay]

Miss M

Maybe there haven't been any fresh calls after VCC because they know it won't help. Maybe the interest previously was so low that they are going abroad. Who knows?

Utter Rubbish - I know of plenty of colleagues who were and still are keen to volunteer as VCC

LD12986

can BASSA legally exclude LGW crew from the ballot?

I am not sure they can I read something recently that stated that any IA had to ballot ALL members and that there MUST be a minimum response rate of 40% of all members only then will it be legal if there is a majority vote.

Anyone have any idea of the BASSA numbers, I can only guess that it will be difficult to get 40% what with LGW crew being excluded plus the attrition of the BASSA membership

[DeThirdDefect]

I am not sure they can I read something recently that stated that any IA had to ballot ALL members and that there MUST be a minimum response rate of 40% of all members only then will it be legal if there is a majority vote.

The union must ballot all members who will be called out on the resulting strike and mustn't ballot anyone who won't.
So, balloting only LHR members would be consistent with a lawful LHR-only strike.

I don't think there's a minimum turnout specified in the law. Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)

[winstonsmith]

UNITE will not be excluding LGW in their next ballot - get your facts right.

[License to Fly]

Originally Posted by Caribbean Boy

I don't see a large number of external crew being recruited as this would blow the IFCE budget

I was flying with someone last week and she said BA had been at her daughters UNI (Loughborough) recruiting .... think about it, if you are graduating now there are not many jobs out there, so a 11 month contract which will allow you to see the world is fab - then apply for your proper job if you want to (or maybe even stay). At least its money to stop going into further debt.

WIN : WIN as BA get lots of cheap labour and some intelligent people. I wonder how many other University campus' BA have been around ...

[Caribbean Boy]

Ballot

The LGW-based crew are a lost cause to Unite, that became obvious during the first two strikes. Unite is entitled to ballot only its LHR-based cabin crew members. Legally, the only times that all members must be balloted are:

• in advance of a merger with another trade union
• elections to fill senior positions within the trade union
• to start up and continue a political fund

[LD12986]

Unite has denied that LGW crew are to be excluded:

Twitter / Unite-BA updates: BA wrong again - Gatwick c ...

[BABOBO]

UNITE will not be excluding LGW in their next ballot - get your facts right

Winstonsmith,

Maybe you should get your facts right..... but Unite is excluding LGW in the next ballot!!! The only crew who will be ballotted at LGW are the crew who lost their staff travel because they went on strike as apparently 'return of ST' is the only issue in this ballot which affects LGW!!! This info comes directly from a BASSA rep and I for one wonder if this is legal.

[HiFlyer14]

Hi flyer a question if you please?

Thank you for your efforts with the pccc which is something I'm watching with interest. It seems that PPRuNe members are aware of it's existence but not the cc community in general. I was told by someone that during the last wave you intended to blitz crc with flyers to start gaining the publicity you need but for some reason this didn't happen. My question being that surely it's time to really get out there sooner or later and advertise heavily rather than relying on word of mouth. It seems an opportunity was missed during the last wave of strikes. If cc who are so disgruntled with bassa knew more about the pccc then you'd really start getting the interest.

GetSmart

You are right - a lot of cabin crew are unaware of us, and therefore we do need to raise the profile. We did manage to do this very successfully during the last strike. There were flyers on the noticeboards (including the BASSA noticeboard!), business cards in the ad stands, etc and people talking freely about the PCCC. Our membership doubled during the last strike.

However, now the BASSA dirty tricks department are back, the flyers only stay up a matter of hours, it is difficult for people to talk about it and therefore many cabin crew do not know about the PCCC. Alongside that, the BASSA militants are stating that we are managers, funded by BA, or BALPA etc so we have to combat that too.

Raising the profile of the PCCC is acutely difficult in the environment that we are in. We are aware that being anonymous doesn't help and we are looking into that. But if there are any budding marketeers out there with some good ideas, please email us at info(at)my.pccc.co.uk.

With Mixed Fleet well under way now, and no MTP or route transfer agreement in place for existing crew, the Professional Cabin Crew Council is the only chance that cabin crew have got.

JetsetLady

You don't seriously expect me to answer that to a non-believer on a public forum do you? If you were to join, you may well find out!

[DeThirdDefect]

I for one wonder if this is legal.

As I said, if the only people they're planning to call out on strike (in the event of a 'yes' vote) at LGW are those who lost their staff travel, the lawful way to conduct things would be to only ballot those people.

Entitlement to vote in ballot
Entitlement to vote in the ballot must be accorded equally to all the members of the trade union who it is reasonable at the time of the ballot for the union to believe will be induced to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in the industrial action in question, and to no others. Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)
I can see nothing in the act that limits a union's ability to pick and choose the specific employees it wishes to include in a strike.