British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

[Duggie Fashion]

MC. Do you honestly think that you will stay on your existing T&C's for the rest of your career without a union to enforce and protect your agreements?

Just take a look at what happened at Aer Lingus to the cabin crew.....and the pilots

[Duggie Fashion]

Hi Flyer. The PCC is a quasi union set up by BA. It is a joke.

pcf. You can Google the information about the 1948 Redeployment Agreement. It is a lot to give up, that is why BA want to change your contract. It is not scaremongering, it is a fact. If you are thinking of staying in BA as a career, it will affect your pension as well if you are forced to give it up.

3rd Defect. I am not talking about an injunction on a cosultative ballot

[giza]

well said

Furthermore, we absolutely refuse to let a minority of la la land die hards hold the company to ransom.

well said, that just about sums it up

[pcf]

Quote from Duggie 'It is a lot to give up, that is why BA want to change your contract'.

Duggie. Where have BA ever said they want to change my contract?

[giza]

envious

Most groundstaff are envious of the cabin crew and very few crew ever leave flying to work on the ground, unless it is for medical reasons.

DSD, I wonder why, maybe it is because cc are the best rewarded staff in BA, why would they leave !!, another footshooter I am affaid

[HiFlyer14]

Duggie,

The PCCC was set up by myself and several other CABIN CREW MEMBERS. Do not believe everything BASSA tell you.

I am a non-union fully fledged cabin crew member who came to work on every single strike wave. More importantly I have signed and accepted the BA offer.

Do you honestly think that now, BA is going to give you a striker, a better offer than the one that I, and many other PCCC members, have signed? Do you honestly think that BA would now say "well bugger those that came to work - let's give the strikers a better deal?"

I will bet you good money that by next January, when I receive my pay rise and you don't, you and I will be on VERY DIFFERENT contracts, if indeed you are still employed by BA.

And yours will undoubtedly be the more inferior.

We have, finally, reached the fork in the road now, and our paths, once inextricably linked by this pathetic union, are now taking us down very different roads. Good luck, D. And good bye.

[Rover90]

8 Days trips are the max

Duggie observed:

Unfortunately with a workforce dispersed around the world, it looks like two weeks was not long enough to get all the votes in.

In the seventies/eighties the longest trip was about 21 days Duggie..... The longest trip now is 8 days....you may leave on a Friday evening for example and get back on the following Saturday morning one week later.....

Which world do you think your members are dispersed in Duggie?

[giza]

oh really

duggie DSD

What I find touching here is that somehow the pilots, engineers and other groundstaff who are cheering Willie on, seem to think that they will be immune from his attentions later on? If he beats the cabin crew, the rest of you will simply roll over and get it where the sun don't shine.

Are you even aware that the pilots and engineers have spend a long time negotiatiing productivity improvements and have already signed up to a new deal. We have already made the required sacrifices. So, yes, i guess that gives us an element of immunity.

[Colonel White]

Col White seems to have a lot of time on his hands. Why don't you practice what you preach and take a pay cut to help your company out? We are in a recession you know.

Duggie, - people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You might notice that my posts are done outside of normal office hours. There's a clue Oh and you want me to take a pay cut to fund your pay rise ?? Now I'm aware that communism works on the basis of equal shares for all, so I would suggest that you ask your ex-branch secretary for a wedge before you start tapping other staff. For the record I am also a volunteer for crew

The consultative ballot was a complete cock up from start to finish. BASSA sent out way more ballot papers than they have current members. They didn't allow enough time to get a full response and I would suggest they actually did themselves out of a far s stronger case. If, as you say, staff living overseas did not get ballot papers till late in the day it sounds likely that hese selfsame votes were not counted. Now I put it to you that the group of staff who have allegedly felt the most pain from the withdrawal of staff travel as a result of their strike action have been overseas based staff. Has BASSA gone for a longer ballot period these votes might have given them a somewhat better position. A cynic on the other hand might suggest that the brevity of the voting period was an attempt by BASSA to ensure that a 'no' vote prevailed as it prevented significant numbers of staff from gettng their votes in.

[giza]

Even I don't fly with BA for my commuting!!

any chance thats because you have lost your staff travel DSD.

[giza]

DSD

Duggie DSD, Althouh I find you posts entertaining, I do have to ask, why do you work for BA. If its so bad, and there are so many oppotunities out there then go fill you boots

[DeThirdDefect]

Duggie, make up your mind

3rd Defect. I am not talking about an injunction on a cosultative ballot

You said....

The consultative ballot was managed via the Eletoral Reform Society so that BA would not say in the likely injunction to come, that BASSA had fiddled the figures.

There is no law that covers the conduct of a consultative ballot, so there is no possible injunction that could be brought on the basis of the conduct of one.

[giza]

new aircraft

3rd Defect, apart from the few 777-300's coming, the A380's have had their delivery dates deferred and even All Nippon airways will not get their first 787 until early 2012.

Thr youngest 747-400 is over 13 years old and even the 777's have been flying since 97. The 767-300's are all around 20 years old. Overall it is a geriatric fleet.

Duggie DSD, you are the master of foot shooting, do you think perhaps the reason we have not grown our routes and not replaced our fleet is because our costs are too high (30% of all cost attributed to CC). This has meant that we have not been able the make the 10% profit consistanty that is required to fund fleet replacement. Whan are you going to join the rest of us in the real world. (just a note, actually, although we shouted foul, the delay in delivery of the A380 and 787 has helped us get through this recession, shhhhhh, dont tell Boeing and Airbus (IMO not to be used in any legal action against compensation)

Backin BA and pround off it, Giza

[Spanner in the works]

DF wrote:

And to those engineers who are going to be VCC, every flight I do from now on into LHR will have at least 6 pages of defects. Thanks for interfering in our dispute.

Oh dear - another bullet in your foot. (must be getting hard to walk now Duggie)

From the statement above we can infer maybe three things:

1. You are going to ensure there are defects - which I cannot believe you meant, as this would be a criminal act.

or

2. There are defects currently, that you do not report - which is bordering on negligent.

and

3. You are suggesting AGAIN that our fleet is poorly maintained - which is not endearing you to the Engineering community at all. In fact, I would suggest that similar comments were the cause of many Engineering staff to resign from Unite AND to positively become involved as VCC.


Care to comment? Or perhaps you will swerve this one as well.

[Colonel White]

1948 redeployment agreement

This is another one of the union's smokescreens. The 1948 agreement is supposed to prevent BA from cutting staff salaries. It can ask for staff to work unpaid. Now the problem is that BA have already asked and got agreement from one bargaining group to take a pay cut. It's not one you hear a lot about. It's the MG group. Yup, managers. They all took a pay cut a year or so ago. So the 1948 agreement isn't all it's cracked up to be. As far as staff who sign up for the new Ts & Cs go, if they are all existing NAPS or APS members it makes no difference to their pension deal as the offer didn't change pension fund membership. BASSA are spreading disinformation - but then they have a history of doing that.

One thing that highlights the difficulty that cabin crew face is this. For most other staff in BA, if the company comes up up with a lousy pay deal there is the prospect of moving to another organisation for a similar or possibly better salary. As far as back office staff go -BA is a good employer, but there are a host of other companies who could use our talents and reward as well as if not better. Many are within an easy distance of LHR. What keeps us at BA is the fact that the company is a good employer - oh and the final salary pension and staff travel benefits help Cabin crew know damned well that other carriers will not pay anything like the amount that BA do. They also have a very specialised skill set which, if you have no other job history, can be quite difficult to reuse in other roles. So they've painted themsleves into a corner in a job that is now wholly reliant on BA being able to continue to maintain the status quo. Note I say job rather than career. Now that BA wishes to reduce its cost base these folk feel theatened, but have nowhere to go, hence the degree of head in the sand attitude being displayed. This total refusal to move with the times will be their undoing.

[Wirbelsturm]

Spanner in the Works.

Don't worry, they will be audited by the Captain first and, if they are rubbish, not entered.

[Rover90]

1948 Redeployment Agreement.

Would someone correct me if I am wrong but the changes to the 1948 Redeployment Agreement apply to all BA employees.

BA have historically been absolutely superb when an employee has been unable to continue in their contracted role.

Very many plc companies would show you the door when you have been medically unfit for 6 months.....BA has employees who have been medically unfit for terms lasting many years but are still technically in employment with the attendant benefits.

It is easy to lash out but perhaps one should take stock and accept that BA is actually a very decent employer in times of trouble for an individual employee.

[Desk Jocky]

Doggie Fashion!

Other departments settled because they were offered a much sweeter deal than cabin crew. Have you got new employees coming in on new contracts with much lower pay and inverior T&C's? No I didn't think so.

No, what we have is less staff than ever, doing the same amount of work, that was done by in some case 50% more! I have had no pay increase for 3 years, and inflation has marched ahead making my money go even less further than it did before.

I think it is you that needs to wake up and realise that CC are the last to have the cost cutting treatment, although you maybe right that further cuts will happen, but CC could have stemmed their loses 12 months ago, and been in a far better position today if only BASSA could understand the meaning of the word - Negotiation

[Spanner in the works]

Aside from the legal implications mentioned above - it would do nothing for their cause.

But it would make him/them feel better having done it. Which shows the mentality.

A bit like losing a game of football and driving a spike through the ball before the game has ended so no-one can play.


The analysis of his response to "Engineers" is very interesting though.
I replied to his retort about groundstaff doing VCC because they had aspirations of being Full-time CC.
I said, not true, many are doing this for personal beliefs regarding their future and had no aspirations of being full-time CC at all.

His reply? "I'm gonna fill the Tech Log with defects."
The literary equivalent of a very loud raspberry.

[giza]

help

I am a BASSA member ready to resign. However to be able to vote YES in the 'final offer' I had to remain a member. So what now? I truly expected BA to give guidance to crew who are now in the 'wilderness'. I backed BA, however I did'nt qualify to sign the new offer. Will I get the opportunity to resign from the union and accept the current offer or could I be given 90 days notice with the only option to sign onto 'new fleet' ?
Advice/thoughts/any help greatly appreciated

.

I am not an expert but, my suggesrtion would be, vote no, then resign, and sign the offer pretty damn quick, email BF and tell him what you are doing get support, the offer will be off the table as soon as a strike is announced.