British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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This suggests to me that Unite aren't too sure of the support from LHR crew either. LGW members on their own have never had enough members to really affect the outcome of a ballot. But if Unite are concerned by the amount of possible "No" votes from LHR, then Gatwick could just shift the balance. I guess they are shortening their odds.
HiFlyer,
We need representation strong enough to get our voices heard above and beyond whatever happens to be occurring at LHR at any specific time. I can not put my faith or money into an organisation that insists on remaining anonymous during such a critical time.
HiFlyer,
We need representation strong enough to get our voices heard above and beyond whatever happens to be occurring at LHR at any specific time. I can not put my faith or money into an organisation that insists on remaining anonymous during such a critical time.
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We need representation strong enough to get our voices heard above and beyond whatever happens to be occurring at LHR at any specific time. I can not put my faith or money into an organisation that insists on remaining anonymous during such a critical time.
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Just had a text from a crew friend and they have said that BASSA are looking at 12 weeks of strikes, to counter BA regards of operating 100%. I just cant see how the crew would accept this. I know its a rumour buts its the 3rd time Ive heard it today.
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I'm afraid it's too late for me, Ranger07. They have shown a lack of conviction that makes me wonder at their ability to negotiate with a company as strong as BA. There's been a lot of talk but as of yet, nothing to back it up with.
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How has BASSAs perceived conviction fared them in negotiations with BA? It would seem the PCCC would have to go a long way to do any worse than BASSA.
As for 12 weeks of strikes, I'd like to see how may crew could afford to sit at home for 12 weeks on £45 per day.
As for 12 weeks of strikes, I'd like to see how may crew could afford to sit at home for 12 weeks on £45 per day.
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Posted by Jetsetlady
This suggests to me that Unite aren't too sure of the support from LHR crew either. LGW members on their own have never had enough members to really affect the outcome of a ballot. But if Unite are concerned by the amount of possible "No" votes from LHR, then Gatwick could just shift the balance. I guess they are shortening their odds.
This suggests to me that Unite aren't too sure of the support from LHR crew either. LGW members on their own have never had enough members to really affect the outcome of a ballot. But if Unite are concerned by the amount of possible "No" votes from LHR, then Gatwick could just shift the balance. I guess they are shortening their odds.
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Thankyou Timothy.
Jetset Lady,
You are, and I mean this in all sincerity, apart from the BASSA militants, the only person that appears to hold the Professional Cabin Crew Council in disdain.
To date we have been entirely self-funded and have prospered and grown due to the generosity and kindness of well-wishers. Our fantastic new website (www.mypccc.co.uk) was provided free of charge courtesy of another BA employee who does web design. Our business cards and logo were designed and emailed to us from a well-wishing customer. We now have an Industrial Relations Expert offering us free advice. We have realms of emails of support from all over the globe from BA employees, BA customers, and even other airline staff. We have had gold card holders and others offering us donations (which we have politely declined). The support for what we are trying to do has been absolutely tremendous. I am therefore curious as to why someone who clearly doesn't support BASSA should feel the need to put us down in the way you do?
JetsetLady with all due respect, you do not work at LHR and you cannot possibly understand the strength of hatred from the BASSA militants. Nor do you seem to understand the lengths they will go to. The LGW members on our committee could not believe that NO-ONE at LHR wore the Backing BA lanyards - until we introduced them during the strikes. It seems at LGW people have been wearing them without problem. People would have been struck down at LHR for wearing them, prior to this.
Additionally, a crew member at LHR had their car marked with an S in the car park. A crew member on one of my flights during the strike was shouted "Scab" at in the car park. Hate mail has been put in mail drops. 50+ suspensions is not for nothing.
Why should we open ourselves up to this level of abuse, until we absolutely have to? We are, like you, cabin crew who do not support what Unite are doing. We recognise, as indeed you do, that there is a far better way of doing business - and we intend to try and find a path to do that. We are also trying to stem the damage that Unite have done. To date, we have informed the majority of crew that were unaware about the share scheme, bonus option and free ticket offer last year. We posted publicly that we would be working during the strike, and we went to work on the first day, in full uniform to the crew car parks at LHR and LGW. We then emailed everyone and told them where the pickets were, and that it was perfectly safe. We have received emails of thanks from our members saying what a support it was to know that we had gone in first. They felt better going to work and I like to think in some small way, we gave people the courage to cross the picket line.
We are now wearing the Backing BA lanyards, and the tide is slowly turning at LHR - the militants are less inclined to start strutting their stuff in the briefing rooms. Perhaps, most important of all for our community, we have a forum on our website where cabin crew can talk freely about how they would like this to end, and how they don't agree with BASSA.
It may not seem like much to you, but believe me, by LHR standards it is huge inroads into the BASSA machine. And we intend to keep plugging away. After all, what have we got to lose? So why not join us, instead of putting us down. You may be pleasantly surprised.
Doing nothing is not an option. We may not succeed, but at least we will have given it our best shot.
Jetset Lady,
You are, and I mean this in all sincerity, apart from the BASSA militants, the only person that appears to hold the Professional Cabin Crew Council in disdain.
To date we have been entirely self-funded and have prospered and grown due to the generosity and kindness of well-wishers. Our fantastic new website (www.mypccc.co.uk) was provided free of charge courtesy of another BA employee who does web design. Our business cards and logo were designed and emailed to us from a well-wishing customer. We now have an Industrial Relations Expert offering us free advice. We have realms of emails of support from all over the globe from BA employees, BA customers, and even other airline staff. We have had gold card holders and others offering us donations (which we have politely declined). The support for what we are trying to do has been absolutely tremendous. I am therefore curious as to why someone who clearly doesn't support BASSA should feel the need to put us down in the way you do?
JetsetLady with all due respect, you do not work at LHR and you cannot possibly understand the strength of hatred from the BASSA militants. Nor do you seem to understand the lengths they will go to. The LGW members on our committee could not believe that NO-ONE at LHR wore the Backing BA lanyards - until we introduced them during the strikes. It seems at LGW people have been wearing them without problem. People would have been struck down at LHR for wearing them, prior to this.
Additionally, a crew member at LHR had their car marked with an S in the car park. A crew member on one of my flights during the strike was shouted "Scab" at in the car park. Hate mail has been put in mail drops. 50+ suspensions is not for nothing.
Why should we open ourselves up to this level of abuse, until we absolutely have to? We are, like you, cabin crew who do not support what Unite are doing. We recognise, as indeed you do, that there is a far better way of doing business - and we intend to try and find a path to do that. We are also trying to stem the damage that Unite have done. To date, we have informed the majority of crew that were unaware about the share scheme, bonus option and free ticket offer last year. We posted publicly that we would be working during the strike, and we went to work on the first day, in full uniform to the crew car parks at LHR and LGW. We then emailed everyone and told them where the pickets were, and that it was perfectly safe. We have received emails of thanks from our members saying what a support it was to know that we had gone in first. They felt better going to work and I like to think in some small way, we gave people the courage to cross the picket line.
We are now wearing the Backing BA lanyards, and the tide is slowly turning at LHR - the militants are less inclined to start strutting their stuff in the briefing rooms. Perhaps, most important of all for our community, we have a forum on our website where cabin crew can talk freely about how they would like this to end, and how they don't agree with BASSA.
It may not seem like much to you, but believe me, by LHR standards it is huge inroads into the BASSA machine. And we intend to keep plugging away. After all, what have we got to lose? So why not join us, instead of putting us down. You may be pleasantly surprised.
Doing nothing is not an option. We may not succeed, but at least we will have given it our best shot.
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What is the mandate?
I hear it is three fold
1. Staff travel returned in its full.......NO CONDITIONS
2. The suspended and dismissed crew reinstated
3. Imposition
oh please, get real
answer..................
1. NO
2. NO
3. Ehhh NO
there is no need to negotiate then, Fait accompli?
Bring on the ballot; let’s get the ball rolling.....
Can’t wait for the result, bound to be over the % needed to call a strike.......
why? Because they have left 25% of their NSP out of the ballot that would vote no! Clever move?
I don’t think so!!!
Just watch this crumble
BASSA playing its last card? Maybe
but one thing is for sure........it isn’t an ACE one!!!!!
I hear it is three fold
1. Staff travel returned in its full.......NO CONDITIONS
2. The suspended and dismissed crew reinstated
3. Imposition
oh please, get real
answer..................
1. NO
2. NO
3. Ehhh NO
there is no need to negotiate then, Fait accompli?
Bring on the ballot; let’s get the ball rolling.....
Can’t wait for the result, bound to be over the % needed to call a strike.......
why? Because they have left 25% of their NSP out of the ballot that would vote no! Clever move?
I don’t think so!!!Just watch this crumble
BASSA playing its last card? Maybe
but one thing is for sure........it isn’t an ACE one!!!!!
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From the Unite Twitter feed
I guess that once the scam of just trying to ballot LHR crews has been exposed they have to include LGW.
BA wrong again - Gatwick crew will vote in ballot. Crew unified against bullying! #brutishairways #ba about 4 hours ago via web
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I guess that once the scam of just trying to ballot LHR crews has been exposed they have to include LGW.
If BA are saying that it excludes LGW, then we can maybe assume that the notice of intention to ballot excludes LGW somehow. BA's legal team havent put a foot wrong yet.
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I lost faith in BASSA during the last episode of industrial action a few years back.
There were many points on the table, which they claimed the crew were dissatisfied with.
Then the Gatwick crew, for the sake of a raise in breakfast payment of about £4 (please correct me if I am inaccurate), were added to the arguement, making 12 points.
Gatwick would never have gone on strike over a £4 payment would they?
BASSA including LGW in the bundle of demands, were just adding them to gain numbers in support.
If you scrape enough barrels, you have enough for what you need right?
The majority of crew are happy with what the company have offered, but BASSA are refusing to believe this. They're just fighting an old battle vs BA and have no regard for its members.
Why don't BASSA put out a questionnaire to all crew listing every single
issue they are arguing over?
eg:
The reduction of one crew member on selected routes - I accept this change/ I dont accept this change/ I accept the change as a temporary measure.
Then both sides will see where the support really lies.
Six
There were many points on the table, which they claimed the crew were dissatisfied with.
Then the Gatwick crew, for the sake of a raise in breakfast payment of about £4 (please correct me if I am inaccurate), were added to the arguement, making 12 points.
Gatwick would never have gone on strike over a £4 payment would they?
BASSA including LGW in the bundle of demands, were just adding them to gain numbers in support.
If you scrape enough barrels, you have enough for what you need right?
The majority of crew are happy with what the company have offered, but BASSA are refusing to believe this. They're just fighting an old battle vs BA and have no regard for its members.
Why don't BASSA put out a questionnaire to all crew listing every single
issue they are arguing over?
eg:
The reduction of one crew member on selected routes - I accept this change/ I dont accept this change/ I accept the change as a temporary measure.
Then both sides will see where the support really lies.
Six
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Well said, HiFlyer14.
It might be an idea for all the LGW crew to disassociate themselves from BASSA and join the PCCC.
The PCCC is definitely gathering momentum as more crew on my flights talk openly about it, too. Always happy to direct them to the PCCC website and I have to add that as a signed up member myself, the Forum is excellent with lots of useful tips etc for crew. It's a far superior website than the 'other' two in style, design and more crew friendly.
Time for change and the sooner the better. Go PCCC.
It might be an idea for all the LGW crew to disassociate themselves from BASSA and join the PCCC.
The PCCC is definitely gathering momentum as more crew on my flights talk openly about it, too. Always happy to direct them to the PCCC website and I have to add that as a signed up member myself, the Forum is excellent with lots of useful tips etc for crew. It's a far superior website than the 'other' two in style, design and more crew friendly.
Time for change and the sooner the better. Go PCCC.
Junior trash
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I see that the BASSA chair is having a foot in mouth evening that even the faithful have noticed. First she claimed that Unite have 45000 members in BA as justification for Unite forgetting to include BASSA in the pension ballot 'because it wouldn't have changed the result' (not true when cabin crew are roughly half Unites BA membership) When challenged the reply was..
Priceless.
BASSA Branch Chair * *
Post subject: Posted: 22 Jun 2010 19:23
* *
I am prone to exaggerate lol
Post subject: Posted: 22 Jun 2010 19:23
* *
I am prone to exaggerate lol
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FYI boys and girls you can be a member of more than one union if you feel the need.
).Also, the Professional Cabin Crew Council are NOT a union. We do not collect subscriptions so you can register your intent on our website even if you are a BASSA member. You are simply registering that you do not approve of what BASSA are doing and are helping us gain the membership numbers that we need to enable us to approach BA.
We need representation strong enough to get our voices heard above and beyond whatever happens to be occurring at LHR at any specific time....
There's been a lot of talk but as of yet, nothing to back it up with.
There's been a lot of talk but as of yet, nothing to back it up with.
Sorry - I hope I wasn't too harsh previously, but I realise now from the above quote that you probably don't understand the legalities of all this and therefore seem to think we should have done more. Whilst we would like to, we can't. Cabin crew simply can't just go up to BA and say "We don't agree with Unite". BA have a collective agreement with Unite, and that stands. Even if they would like to, BA cannot go outside that agreement. The only way to challenge it is through numbers. We need at least 40% of the workforce if we want recognition by BA. Only then, will we be able to approach BA and only then will BA be able to listen to us.
All the Professional Cabin Crew Council are doing at the moment is gathering members. It's all we can do. We HAVE to have the numbers so that we can then use the registrations to approach BA and then provide a voice for what cabin crew really want - sensible, adult, negotiation.
Hope this explains - and hope you will now join the PCCC so that you can help us, help you. That, in a nutshell, is how it works.
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Having written three indepth replies and lost my internet connection all three times, I have given up therefore this will be short and sweet. I will try to keep adding to it and correct the grammar as and when I can!
Timothy Claypole,
No they haven't but by the same token, I'm not going to choose my representation based on the fact that they can't do any worse than BASSA.
HiFlyer,
I don't hold PCCC in disdain but I do have my suspicions on how effective it will be when it comes to representing me as a crew member at LGW. Comments such as....
...do not help. How do you know that I can not possibly understand the strength of hatred? Do you think I haven't had hate mail and threats? Please don't treat me like the slightly simple child from down the road. I get enough of that from the BASSA Massive!
Why indeed when you can let others take the flack for it? If you are serious about this, then now is the time you have to. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Many crew are feeling badly let down and as a result, aren't very trusting right now. They need to know that they are signing up to a real chance of good representation rather than good intentions.
And there we agree. You may not believe it but I don't want PCCC to fail which is why I am one of the few on here that will question you. Or would you rather have sort of unquestioning blind loyalty that is shown to BASSA? Despite what you think, I am not the only person questioning the stance you have taken with regards your identities. I just happen to be one of the more "gobby" ones!
Once again, I am not the village idiot! Believe it or not, I did already know the above, despite me being a mere LGW crew member. By backing it up, I meant standing up and being counted.
P.S. Just out of interest, how many LGW crew are currently involved in the running of PCCC?
Timothy Claypole,
No they haven't but by the same token, I'm not going to choose my representation based on the fact that they can't do any worse than BASSA.
HiFlyer,
I don't hold PCCC in disdain but I do have my suspicions on how effective it will be when it comes to representing me as a crew member at LGW. Comments such as....
JetsetLady with all due respect, you do not work at LHR and you cannot possibly understand the strength of hatred from the BASSA militants
Why should we open ourselves up to this level of abuse, until we absolutely have to
Doing nothing is not an option. We may not succeed, but at least we will have given it our best shot
Sorry - I hope I wasn't too harsh previously, but I realise now from the above quote that you probably don't understand the legalities of all this and therefore seem to think we should have done more. Whilst we would like to, we can't. Cabin crew simply can't just go up to BA and say "We don't agree with Unite". BA have a collective agreement with Unite, and that stands. Even if they would like to, BA cannot go outside that agreement. The only way to challenge it is through numbers. We need at least 40% of the workforce if we want recognition by BA. Only then, will we be able to approach BA and only then will BA be able to listen to us.
P.S. Just out of interest, how many LGW crew are currently involved in the running of PCCC?
Last edited by jetset lady; 22nd Jun 2010 at 22:48. Reason: Yay! It worked...
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JetsetLady,
I sincerely apologise if you think I was treating you as a child. That was never my intention.
Can I ask you to state exactly what it is that you feel the PCCC could or should be doing? Or indeed what it is that we are not doing?
I sincerely apologise if you think I was treating you as a child. That was never my intention.
Can I ask you to state exactly what it is that you feel the PCCC could or should be doing? Or indeed what it is that we are not doing?