British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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28L
I am sure if you read my post you know exactly what I was saying.
What I was saying is that it is independant from BA and not part of the company or management.
When I said it was not pro-company website I was not saying it was not pro BA, I was saying that just because we disagree with how BASSA has done things does not mean that we all agree with the introduction of mixed fleet. Having said that, some of the younger crew have put in for CSM and that is great for them, as many of them have been successful and I wish them lots of luck and I hope they enjoy their new fleet. However I personally would have preferred the intergrated approch that was on offer just prior to Christmas and that is how most PCCC members feel. Most of us have joined because we were unhappy with how BASSA has represented us.
All the members are pro BA that is why they joined because they all want a better way to do things.
All I was saying is that it is not just a BA mouthpiece, eg. it does not nessasary agree with how BA has done things in this dispute and how things have been handled. Of course I am pro BA, my emplloyer and so I am sure, is the PCCC although I am not a spokesperson for the PCCC. I am just a mere member and that's all the PCCC is, a group of cabin crew trying to find a better way of doing things than is being done by BASSA at the moment.
I am sure if you read my post you know exactly what I was saying.
What I was saying is that it is independant from BA and not part of the company or management.
When I said it was not pro-company website I was not saying it was not pro BA, I was saying that just because we disagree with how BASSA has done things does not mean that we all agree with the introduction of mixed fleet. Having said that, some of the younger crew have put in for CSM and that is great for them, as many of them have been successful and I wish them lots of luck and I hope they enjoy their new fleet. However I personally would have preferred the intergrated approch that was on offer just prior to Christmas and that is how most PCCC members feel. Most of us have joined because we were unhappy with how BASSA has represented us.
All the members are pro BA that is why they joined because they all want a better way to do things.
All I was saying is that it is not just a BA mouthpiece, eg. it does not nessasary agree with how BA has done things in this dispute and how things have been handled. Of course I am pro BA, my emplloyer and so I am sure, is the PCCC although I am not a spokesperson for the PCCC. I am just a mere member and that's all the PCCC is, a group of cabin crew trying to find a better way of doing things than is being done by BASSA at the moment.
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I follow this thread frequently. I consider myself dedicated and professional, Yet I cannot comprehend how any of my colleagues, if you are genuine crew can possibly see any positives in the way our future is panning out. Personally I have resigned myself to the fact that my career (13 Years) is over. It really breaks my heart. I feel cheated. 3 Years ago I had optimism and ambition, but now I am in a dead end job. For all you that are backing BA, When is enough enough? At what point do you move on? How little are you actually prepared to work for?
Don't get me wrong, I think BASSA have made mistakes, but I do believe they have our interests at heart. Far worse though is BA and it's present leadership, for whom we are just "collateral damage" and easily replaced- Sadly at a cost, which will take years to quantify!
P.s for others feeling let down. Just had 2 interviews, and 2 offers. There is a future outside BA
Don't get me wrong, I think BASSA have made mistakes, but I do believe they have our interests at heart. Far worse though is BA and it's present leadership, for whom we are just "collateral damage" and easily replaced- Sadly at a cost, which will take years to quantify!
P.s for others feeling let down. Just had 2 interviews, and 2 offers. There is a future outside BA
However, I don't think it's right to say it's now over for LHR EF/WW crews. Even by the company's own predictions, LHR EF/WW will represent the majority of LHR cabin crew for at least ten years. With no 3rd runway at LHR, growth at BA is going be limited so Mixed Fleet will only grow through attrition.
But that doesn't mean Mixed Fleet doesn't changes things radically. It does.
As soon as Mixed Fleet beds in (expect every teething problem to be seized on by BASSA) and gains critical mass LHF EF/WW have competition on their doorstep on every measure: service quality, productivity/efficiency, effectiveness of performance management, sickness, flexibility during disruption...
If LHR EF/WW want to preserve their future, there has to be a radical change in culture (enough of the "we are BA" and "the company is the enemy" rhetoric) and an acceptance that it's time to let go of some of the indefensible aspects of current working practices.
A continuation of the dogged resistance to change (which got BASSA here in the first place) will only accentuate the stark differences between the fleets. If BASSA try to encourage LHR EF/WW to ostracise Mixed Fleet cabin crew, that won't to do them any favours either.
A good starting point would be a total clearout in the upper ranks of BASSA.
Last edited by LD12986; 21st Aug 2010 at 17:05.
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Betty Girl
Well written.
I no longer post on forums and lurk, but your post has made me come out and state that i am of the same opinion as you.
"The thing you don't seem to understand is that just because many crew did not strike it does not mean that they agree with what the company are doing.
Many crew like myself do not agree with what Willie Walsh has been doing, we do not want Mixed fleet, we do not want all this insecurity but we did NOT feel striking was the way to get what we wanted.
Many crew like myself do not agree with what Willie Walsh has been doing, we do not want Mixed fleet, we do not want all this insecurity but we did NOT feel striking was the way to get what we wanted.
Well written.
I no longer post on forums and lurk, but your post has made me come out and state that i am of the same opinion as you.
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The original operation was columbus. Everything was on Columbus paper has happened up to now. They are very cleaver they could not make people redundant as the jobs still existed, so they created new jobs with new names and different description. Mixed fleet as got customer service manager which is the old CSD, they added ground duty to the description that some CSD already do but is not in their description.
Pursers have become "future talent crew". Same job but different description this time ground courses. and then the crew. They are offering part times and severances and people are leaving how long before we get the th 19% they need to make everyone redundent. The only thing I can think is that they are working towards a constructive dismissal and we should concentrate our law firm towards this as I believe what they are doing is illigal. remember we cannot transfer to the new fleet we will have to re apply and some people already have and they have been turned down.
Pursers have become "future talent crew". Same job but different description this time ground courses. and then the crew. They are offering part times and severances and people are leaving how long before we get the th 19% they need to make everyone redundent. The only thing I can think is that they are working towards a constructive dismissal and we should concentrate our law firm towards this as I believe what they are doing is illigal. remember we cannot transfer to the new fleet we will have to re apply and some people already have and they have been turned down.
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Thanks Asmara,
It's good that you have posted your post and it's good that you agree with me!!!!!
I think there are thousands of people that think like us it's just so hard at work to say anything for fear of upsetting someone. It really does help to get your feelings out hear and it does not matter what anyone else thinks because they don't know who you are so here's to many more posts from you.
Welcome to posting again.
It's good that you have posted your post and it's good that you agree with me!!!!!
I think there are thousands of people that think like us it's just so hard at work to say anything for fear of upsetting someone. It really does help to get your feelings out hear and it does not matter what anyone else thinks because they don't know who you are so here's to many more posts from you.
Welcome to posting again.
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Am I missing something? I thought the presentation at the investor day clearly stated the proposed growth rate of mixed fleet and it was very gradual?
BASSA has done such an effective job of scaremongering it’s members to the point were posters like asberge, mohitomaster and angelica20102010 seem so certain that we are on a timebomb waiting to go off, when the reality is more than likely the complete opposite.
The problem with this theory that we are all doomed and will soon be earning £2.40 an hour is that BA do not want us on Mixed Fleet and never will. This new fleet is not just about cost savings, it’s about a complete change in culture, moving away from the ‘what’s in it for me’ attitude. BA do not want their new crew to be ‘brainwashed’ with the current crew mindset. (I mean that generally speaking)
BA no longer want current crew recruiting or training the new fleet (I should know, I used to work in Recruitment and until recently thought I still did?), this will now be part of the new CSM role. Mixed fleet will be completely separate from existing fleets and more than likely remain that way for a long time to come. After all, what would be the point of creating a new culture within the crew community to then have it all eroded away by merging us at a later date? It wouldn't be too long before BA would then have another militant workforce, albeit on less favourable T & C's.
Leaving BASSA is the best thing you can do, No more mass hysteria and lies just to gain support from the masses. BASSA have preyed on the vulnerability of it's members, filling their heads with untruths and painting a bleak picture of the future. BASSA do not have a chrystal ball into the future anymore than any of us do, but take it from me, if you don't get drawn into the scare-mongering things become a lot clearer.
And just to re-iterate Bettygirls post, the PCCC is not a 'management' forum, it's just simply a forum where like minded crew can share ideas, let of steam and gather strength from each other. Why not give it a go?
BASSA has done such an effective job of scaremongering it’s members to the point were posters like asberge, mohitomaster and angelica20102010 seem so certain that we are on a timebomb waiting to go off, when the reality is more than likely the complete opposite.
The problem with this theory that we are all doomed and will soon be earning £2.40 an hour is that BA do not want us on Mixed Fleet and never will. This new fleet is not just about cost savings, it’s about a complete change in culture, moving away from the ‘what’s in it for me’ attitude. BA do not want their new crew to be ‘brainwashed’ with the current crew mindset. (I mean that generally speaking)
BA no longer want current crew recruiting or training the new fleet (I should know, I used to work in Recruitment and until recently thought I still did?), this will now be part of the new CSM role. Mixed fleet will be completely separate from existing fleets and more than likely remain that way for a long time to come. After all, what would be the point of creating a new culture within the crew community to then have it all eroded away by merging us at a later date? It wouldn't be too long before BA would then have another militant workforce, albeit on less favourable T & C's.
Leaving BASSA is the best thing you can do, No more mass hysteria and lies just to gain support from the masses. BASSA have preyed on the vulnerability of it's members, filling their heads with untruths and painting a bleak picture of the future. BASSA do not have a chrystal ball into the future anymore than any of us do, but take it from me, if you don't get drawn into the scare-mongering things become a lot clearer.
And just to re-iterate Bettygirls post, the PCCC is not a 'management' forum, it's just simply a forum where like minded crew can share ideas, let of steam and gather strength from each other. Why not give it a go?
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Look all of you. None of us are happy with whats happening but you can be sure it is going to take alot longer than three years for the demise of WW and EF.
We will gradually get smaller and mixed fleet will gradually get larger and it will take many many years.
Having said that there will I am sure be more cost cuttings to come, like fixed links and working later last day etc. but there is NO WAY that BA wants to make us all mixed fleet. This is Willy Walsh's new project and he does not want any of us part of it.
I think the whole thing is a crying shame and just wish we had had a better union negotiating for us in the first place. Bassa have allienated the BA management and most other staff against the crew community and on the other side BA are going to have the mixed fleet crew wearing a hat which will just make it even more a them and us thing.
As I said the whole thing is a crying shame and the two sets of children ie Walsh and Bassa are just both making it worse.
We will gradually get smaller and mixed fleet will gradually get larger and it will take many many years.
Having said that there will I am sure be more cost cuttings to come, like fixed links and working later last day etc. but there is NO WAY that BA wants to make us all mixed fleet. This is Willy Walsh's new project and he does not want any of us part of it.
I think the whole thing is a crying shame and just wish we had had a better union negotiating for us in the first place. Bassa have allienated the BA management and most other staff against the crew community and on the other side BA are going to have the mixed fleet crew wearing a hat which will just make it even more a them and us thing.
As I said the whole thing is a crying shame and the two sets of children ie Walsh and Bassa are just both making it worse.
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mohitomaster,
Good luck in your new job. There is and may be life outside BA, but you'll probably find it's not as cushy as the life you've had in BA.
We've been lucky to enjoy the best terms and conditions in the industry and that is about to change. It's quite easy really, if you cant accept it than you have to go elsewhere.
Betty Girl and Chigley,
Well said re-the PCCC. I agree the PCCC has an excellent and respectable forum where crew share their views and concerns on various topics which are work and non-work related. I tend to log on on a daily basis just to read the latest about what's going on. I've also made new friends from the PCCC forum. It has not been recognised by BA as yet, but I sincerely hope it does in the not too distant future.
PS. Betty Girl, my apologies about a previous post way back in a reply to you. I misunderstood your point of view re-CSDs.
Good luck in your new job. There is and may be life outside BA, but you'll probably find it's not as cushy as the life you've had in BA.
We've been lucky to enjoy the best terms and conditions in the industry and that is about to change. It's quite easy really, if you cant accept it than you have to go elsewhere.
Betty Girl and Chigley,
Well said re-the PCCC. I agree the PCCC has an excellent and respectable forum where crew share their views and concerns on various topics which are work and non-work related. I tend to log on on a daily basis just to read the latest about what's going on. I've also made new friends from the PCCC forum. It has not been recognised by BA as yet, but I sincerely hope it does in the not too distant future.
PS. Betty Girl, my apologies about a previous post way back in a reply to you. I misunderstood your point of view re-CSDs.
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We will gradually get smaller and mixed fleet will gradually get larger and it will take many many years.
In the same way that BA want a change of culture, BASSA also need a change of culture. The one thing that has become clear over this last 18 months is that BASSA are no longer dealing with the 'old' BA management that was scared of them, that would give in when faced with the threat of IA. BA has changed and has out thought and out manoeuvered BASSA, the union must adapt or it will only hasten the demise of those it it has sought so hard to protect. There are no more groups of staff they can sell off to protect the golden runways - they must now try to engage with BA.
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This is my first post. How true are your posts Betty. Well done. I left Bassa and feel like a weight has been lifted of my shoulders. I feel for the people who are left there being wound and stirred up on the Bassa Forum.
What a pleasant surprise when I joined the PCCC. I have yet to come across a happy striker. They seem to be walking about miserable just now. Its getting easy to spot some of us " Non strikers" now. I am relieved I have accepted and signed the " Way Forward" agreement.
What a pleasant surprise when I joined the PCCC. I have yet to come across a happy striker. They seem to be walking about miserable just now. Its getting easy to spot some of us " Non strikers" now. I am relieved I have accepted and signed the " Way Forward" agreement.
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"I think you are spot on here BG, but I would add a caveat. If BASSA continue with their current strategy, and fail to come to an agreement with BA then the demise of WW/EF will be hastened. Indeed at one stage of the negotiations MF was "off the table" completely, it has been BASSA's failure to negotiate that brought MF into existence.
In the same way that BA want a change of culture, BASSA also need a change of culture. The one thing that has become clear over this last 18 months is that BASSA are no longer dealing with the 'old' BA management that was scared of them, that would give in when faced with the threat of IA. BA has changed and has out thought and out manoeuvered BASSA, the union must adapt or it will only hasten the demise of those it it has sought so hard to protect. There are no more groups of staff they can sell off to protect the golden runways - they must now try to engage with BA."
At last the penny is beginning to drop. When I've flown BA I've found the cabin crew are either very good or very bad, theres seems to be no middle bit. As far as mixed fleet goes, I would give it 5 years and there will only be mixed fleet and all the nasty old primadonnas who refuse to give out a hot towel or close the blinds will be out the door. And a better BA it will be too.
In the same way that BA want a change of culture, BASSA also need a change of culture. The one thing that has become clear over this last 18 months is that BASSA are no longer dealing with the 'old' BA management that was scared of them, that would give in when faced with the threat of IA. BA has changed and has out thought and out manoeuvered BASSA, the union must adapt or it will only hasten the demise of those it it has sought so hard to protect. There are no more groups of staff they can sell off to protect the golden runways - they must now try to engage with BA."
At last the penny is beginning to drop. When I've flown BA I've found the cabin crew are either very good or very bad, theres seems to be no middle bit. As far as mixed fleet goes, I would give it 5 years and there will only be mixed fleet and all the nasty old primadonnas who refuse to give out a hot towel or close the blinds will be out the door. And a better BA it will be too.
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They think its all over!
I have read a large number of doom prediction posts that the end of crew life as we know it is assured now that the Mixed fleet ball is rolling. Personally I do not agree. BA crew life has been a fantastic experience for me on all the fleets I have worked on and I have worked them all.
The only time crew life ends and I mean this respectfully is when you are on the obituary board so lets be real about doomsday forcasts.
The argumet is "Does BA need to make the huge cost savings that Mixed Fleet will bring?" Bassa says no the City says yes and whatever side of the fence you are on the money is always right. I have some sympathty for the militents who believe they are doing the right thing but once you combine the the influence of our CEO the city of London and the general apathy of crew there is only going to be one loser.......BASSA.
Every one of us are in a position to either accept the change, leave BA or better still use the next 2 to 5 years and more to learn new skills for a new challenge. The job for life theory is history, We all have to start thinking what our plan B is.
The only time crew life ends and I mean this respectfully is when you are on the obituary board so lets be real about doomsday forcasts.
The argumet is "Does BA need to make the huge cost savings that Mixed Fleet will bring?" Bassa says no the City says yes and whatever side of the fence you are on the money is always right. I have some sympathty for the militents who believe they are doing the right thing but once you combine the the influence of our CEO the city of London and the general apathy of crew there is only going to be one loser.......BASSA.
Every one of us are in a position to either accept the change, leave BA or better still use the next 2 to 5 years and more to learn new skills for a new challenge. The job for life theory is history, We all have to start thinking what our plan B is.
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Maybe you all do no see the big picture.. If BA can get away with his plan it will only be the first stage. Over a period ground staff has been trained to do cabin crew but cabin crew has been trained to do ground work during emergency periods. They will finish with cabin crew and then start on ground staff, on managers, on flight crew. Mixed fleet cost less, work more is multi- tasked.
For whoever asked who am I my answer is I am cabin crew, I worked during the last strike and I do not care what you want to call me.
I will not work next strike because after pondering things on my own i came to conclusion that Ba is after my job too and I will not give in so easily.
For whoever asked who am I my answer is I am cabin crew, I worked during the last strike and I do not care what you want to call me.
I will not work next strike because after pondering things on my own i came to conclusion that Ba is after my job too and I will not give in so easily.
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Angelica, Before you decide whats for you, have a beak from the Bassa and Crewforum Websites. It so easy to get wound up on these sites. You said you came to work on the first wave and well done you for doing so. It must have been tough going.
You had your own reasons for turning up whatever they were.
Have a look at the Pccc Website www.mypccc.co.uk
It may give you a different view on things or it may not,but have a look anyway. It worked with me. If the company are really after your job, it would have happened a long time ago, dont you think?
Wish you well Angelica!
You had your own reasons for turning up whatever they were.
Have a look at the Pccc Website www.mypccc.co.uk
It may give you a different view on things or it may not,but have a look anyway. It worked with me. If the company are really after your job, it would have happened a long time ago, dont you think?
Wish you well Angelica!
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Pardon me for butting in as a non-cabin crew contributor..
Apologies if this has probably been said before, I havent read the whole thread.
I am one of many BA pilots who voted for a 5% pay cut last year. As a trainer my training pay and committment was also reduced by 20%, total 8%. In addition I took voluntary unpaid leave so my total hit over the last year has been over 15%. Also as agreed with BA, I have operated several flights since with 3 pilots rather than 4 meaning less rest and greater post-flight fatigue. I would add that this within CAA scheme rules and perfectly safe.
I am yet to meet a cabin crew member who has lost money unless during the somewhat futile IA. As most Cabin Service Directors previously took an active part in the service anyway and inflight rest has been unaffected the working environment for cabin crew is surely "business as normal".
The comment that "it's you next" is somewhat irrelevant as every other department has done their bit, from loaders losing overtime to managers losing jobs.
BASSA have let you down, every new entrant will be on an inferior contact. I hope they mention that when they try to recruit new crew, but I doubt they will
Compliments to the crew who have worked for me since this bebacle, professional as ever and committed to their job and passengers.
Apologies if this has probably been said before, I havent read the whole thread.
I am one of many BA pilots who voted for a 5% pay cut last year. As a trainer my training pay and committment was also reduced by 20%, total 8%. In addition I took voluntary unpaid leave so my total hit over the last year has been over 15%. Also as agreed with BA, I have operated several flights since with 3 pilots rather than 4 meaning less rest and greater post-flight fatigue. I would add that this within CAA scheme rules and perfectly safe.
I am yet to meet a cabin crew member who has lost money unless during the somewhat futile IA. As most Cabin Service Directors previously took an active part in the service anyway and inflight rest has been unaffected the working environment for cabin crew is surely "business as normal".
The comment that "it's you next" is somewhat irrelevant as every other department has done their bit, from loaders losing overtime to managers losing jobs.
BASSA have let you down, every new entrant will be on an inferior contact. I hope they mention that when they try to recruit new crew, but I doubt they will
Compliments to the crew who have worked for me since this bebacle, professional as ever and committed to their job and passengers.
Last edited by torchy747; 23rd Aug 2010 at 09:49.
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Torchy, Thanks for your posting, but of course Bassa wouldnt mention any of your issues on there website...I am sure you know what I mean. Pass on to the other guys upfrount for being civil to us " Workers" when onboard...its a pleasure to work with you.
Last edited by Miss BA; 22nd Aug 2010 at 21:48. Reason: spelling
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Miss Ba I have been reading every single website people have posted on and that is how I formed my opinion. I am also very sure there will be more impositions coming in the very near future. Do not ask me how I know as I know. You need to start reading between the lines and I am not trying to convert anybody here. I believe everyone is free to choose what they want to do and accept the consequences for it. That is my decision and mine only. I have been a non striker for my reasons and I will strike for my believes now. I believe the union has made mistakes but the BA has his faults too. I would like them to stop and listen to each others but I am pretty sure it will not happen.