British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Duggie Fashion
And the facts to back up your post are?........................................................
Dixie
The problem at BA Giza, is that there are too many groundstaff like you. You prove my point by being able to be released from your 'day job' to be a VCC.
BA only has 25 more aircraft than RyanAir, but 32,000 extra employees. What are they doing? Not much by all accounts, as so many are available to fly.
VCC crew like Giza will find themselves redundant in the near future as BA moves its headquarters to Madrid. Waterside will be closed down and BA will become a sateliite operationfor IAG based at LHR. There won't even be any further AGM's in London, besides the fact the deal is 56% in BA's favour.
That is the thanks you are going to get from Willie.
BA only has 25 more aircraft than RyanAir, but 32,000 extra employees. What are they doing? Not much by all accounts, as so many are available to fly.
VCC crew like Giza will find themselves redundant in the near future as BA moves its headquarters to Madrid. Waterside will be closed down and BA will become a sateliite operationfor IAG based at LHR. There won't even be any further AGM's in London, besides the fact the deal is 56% in BA's favour.
That is the thanks you are going to get from Willie.
Dixie
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The problem at BA Giza, is that there are too many groundstaff like you. You prove my point by being able to be released from your 'day job' to be a VCC.
BA only has 25 more aircraft than RyanAir, but 32,000 extra employees. What are they doing? Not much by all accounts, as so many are available to fly.
VCC crew like Giza will find themselves redundant in the near future as BA moves its headquarters to Madrid. Waterside will be closed down and BA will become a sateliite operationfor IAG based at LHR. There won't even be any further AGM's in London, besides the fact the deal is 56% in BA's favour.
That is the thanks you are going to get from Willie.
BA only has 25 more aircraft than RyanAir, but 32,000 extra employees. What are they doing? Not much by all accounts, as so many are available to fly.
VCC crew like Giza will find themselves redundant in the near future as BA moves its headquarters to Madrid. Waterside will be closed down and BA will become a sateliite operationfor IAG based at LHR. There won't even be any further AGM's in London, besides the fact the deal is 56% in BA's favour.
That is the thanks you are going to get from Willie.
BA has more employees than Ryanair a) because it a vastly more complicated business than a short-haul point-to-point operator and b) it outsources more of its functions than BA.
The AGM of IAG will be based in Madrid because that is where the top holding company, IAG, will be Headquartered. The operations of BA and Iberia will remain in separate companies in the UK and Spain.
The suggestion that Waterside will be closed down is complete and utter drivel. Some Head Office staff will lose their jobs because of the merger as back office functions are merged. Nothing to do with volunteering for CC. For people who work outside the LHR cabin crew bubble, the quest for companies to be more efficient is a constant and not just an exception when in the teeth of one of the worst crises in the history of aviation.
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They are more than happy to shaft their cabin crew colleagues
Too many groundstaff? Until the new crewing levels, cabin crew were tripping over themselves in the cabin. And you only had to look round the CRC to see how many crew were hanging round to cover their colleagues who couldn't be bothered to turn up for work.
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Never forget that this is all from the rather skewed BASSA perspective.
The whole state of the company through this dispute is down to every one else, not BASSA and their destructive attitude toward negotiation and their witch hunt against anyone who disagrees with their view, but everyone else is to blame.
The fact that they called IA over the EG300 sickness procedure because it would expose the ridiculously over staffed levels of IFcE is typical. But still there are too many personell in ALL other departments!
Most carriers do more with less but the CC would never agree. Ryanair/Easy do not night stop, anywhere. Thus their crew are ready for flight from home base every day. Not displaced and requiring considerably more rest than the flight crew because they are tired, poor darlings.
The whole state of the company through this dispute is down to every one else, not BASSA and their destructive attitude toward negotiation and their witch hunt against anyone who disagrees with their view, but everyone else is to blame.
The fact that they called IA over the EG300 sickness procedure because it would expose the ridiculously over staffed levels of IFcE is typical. But still there are too many personell in ALL other departments!
Most carriers do more with less but the CC would never agree. Ryanair/Easy do not night stop, anywhere. Thus their crew are ready for flight from home base every day. Not displaced and requiring considerably more rest than the flight crew because they are tired, poor darlings.
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All bassa have to say is NO!
no to changes!
no to efficiencies!
no to customer enhancements!
Remember the hot towel in WTP fiasco?
bassa would only consider it if BA accepted a minimum of 3 in flight trials to, guess where?
Yep you guessed it - NRT / HKG / SIN! Financial benefit? You think?
Lets not forget that they refused to consult on the CW 2nd meal changes without a written g'tee that BA would conduct in flight trials (Hmmm I wonder what routes this would need to be tried out on
)
Then they throw their toys out the pram, threaten IA, until they get their own way!
no to changes!
no to efficiencies!
no to customer enhancements!
Remember the hot towel in WTP fiasco?
bassa would only consider it if BA accepted a minimum of 3 in flight trials to, guess where?
Yep you guessed it - NRT / HKG / SIN! Financial benefit? You think?
Lets not forget that they refused to consult on the CW 2nd meal changes without a written g'tee that BA would conduct in flight trials (Hmmm I wonder what routes this would need to be tried out on
) Then they throw their toys out the pram, threaten IA, until they get their own way!
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Wirbelsturm
Sadly as cash has become king and costs have been driven down the service in the cabin can be compared more to McDonalds than Savoy.
I'm afraid that you are not up to speed with what is going on in IFCE, there is a huge premium training program underway. The Savoy doesn't feature in the training however one of the principal references is the Dorchester Hotel. In fact we are working closely with them in the hope that we can raise our premium standards.
Ryanair pilots and cabin crew do not nightstop we do so that we can offer a first flight in to deliver the business man ready to do business. Different market I'm afraid.
Reading between the lines of your posts I can't help but think you have a deep seated hatred of cabin crew just as some of the cabin crew have a similar feeling towards our flight crew colleagues. Please consider that there a great number of cabin crew that are not supporters of the BASSA militants just as we are not haters of flight crew, we are all in this together. I think your arguments might carry more weight if you too leave the emotion out of it.
I'm afraid that you are not up to speed with what is going on in IFCE, there is a huge premium training program underway. The Savoy doesn't feature in the training however one of the principal references is the Dorchester Hotel. In fact we are working closely with them in the hope that we can raise our premium standards.
Ryanair pilots and cabin crew do not nightstop we do so that we can offer a first flight in to deliver the business man ready to do business. Different market I'm afraid.
Reading between the lines of your posts I can't help but think you have a deep seated hatred of cabin crew just as some of the cabin crew have a similar feeling towards our flight crew colleagues. Please consider that there a great number of cabin crew that are not supporters of the BASSA militants just as we are not haters of flight crew, we are all in this together. I think your arguments might carry more weight if you too leave the emotion out of it.
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Duggie Fashion
Your figures are incorect.
Ryanair has 252 737-800 aircraft and carried 65 million pax in 2009
BA has 241 various aircraft and carried 33 million pax in 2009.
Not trying to wind it up just want to add to a good thread.
Your figures are incorect.
Ryanair has 252 737-800 aircraft and carried 65 million pax in 2009
BA has 241 various aircraft and carried 33 million pax in 2009.
Not trying to wind it up just want to add to a good thread.
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Duggie Fashion
I hear all the time cabin crew saying " you cant compare us to Ryanair" yet thats exactly what you have done, Do you want to the same as them or not??.
Comparing the complex operation of BA to a point to point operation like Ryanair shows you lack of understanding of the industry. Ask you Bassa reps what the difference they will tell you im sure.
I hear all the time cabin crew saying " you cant compare us to Ryanair" yet thats exactly what you have done, Do you want to the same as them or not??.
Comparing the complex operation of BA to a point to point operation like Ryanair shows you lack of understanding of the industry. Ask you Bassa reps what the difference they will tell you im sure.
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Duggie Fashion
Folks
We can't ban Duggie Fashion (as several of you have requested) simply because his/her views are in opposition to the consensus on this thread, or because those views are expressed in an immature and irritating manner.
The way to deal with this is either to ignore, or to rebut with facts. The odds are that you will never change this persons' mind - it's probably best not to try: However, in posting facts rather than outrage, you may help convince others. Not everybody who reads this thread contributes, many just lurk.
This thread would be a dull place if everybody who argues against the consensus was driven away - maybe you can learn from it?
We can't ban Duggie Fashion (as several of you have requested) simply because his/her views are in opposition to the consensus on this thread, or because those views are expressed in an immature and irritating manner.
The way to deal with this is either to ignore, or to rebut with facts. The odds are that you will never change this persons' mind - it's probably best not to try: However, in posting facts rather than outrage, you may help convince others. Not everybody who reads this thread contributes, many just lurk.
This thread would be a dull place if everybody who argues against the consensus was driven away - maybe you can learn from it?
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Reading between the lines of your posts I can't help but think you have a deep seated hatred of cabin crew just as some of the cabin crew have a similar feeling towards our flight crew colleagues. Please consider that there a great number of cabin crew that are not supporters of the BASSA militants just as we are not haters of flight crew, we are all in this together. I think your arguments might carry more weight if you too leave the emotion out of it.
I have a deep seated dislike of BASSA as, for the reasons above, I feel they have done nothing to further the good of the Cabin Crew in general but have merely feathered their own nests whilst blaming the rest of the airline for their inadequacies.
I think you will also find I stated that both Ryanair and Easy do not night stop thus the comparison between carriers is inappropriate.
As to the service. Premium service is not what it used to be 30 or even 20 years ago. Meals are no longer prepared on board, wines are pre selected and the choice given to the customer not from the CSD's recommendation (yes I do remember those days) and the level of service has been, generally, dumbed down. Hence my analogy between the Savoy and McDonalds. Whilst we offer a premium service the set up and delivery are still far more McDonalds than Savoy.
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What Duggie and other who troll-out this tired argument seem to fail to realise is that the WHOLE airline is making the VCC possible.
The VCCs leave a hole that has to be filled. If it didn't, the position wouldn't exist.
Why? Because EVERY department has already made sacrifices. Has already been cut to the bone. Budgets slashed. Numbers reduced. Overtime stopped. Pay rises stopped for three years. No bonuses.
But as I say, the holes left be VCC are being filled by those left behind taking up the extra work. They are backing BA by doing this.
So you can carry on with your scaremongering - but it doesn't wash.
We (VCCs) know how hard it is back in the office and what is waiting for us when we return -we will be backfilling for other staff in turn.
Hard work and long hours....not for short-term financial gain - far from it.
But for medium term job security.
Keep trying Duggie but your angle is old, misdirected - and totally and utterly wrong.
The VCCs leave a hole that has to be filled. If it didn't, the position wouldn't exist.
Why? Because EVERY department has already made sacrifices. Has already been cut to the bone. Budgets slashed. Numbers reduced. Overtime stopped. Pay rises stopped for three years. No bonuses.
But as I say, the holes left be VCC are being filled by those left behind taking up the extra work. They are backing BA by doing this.
So you can carry on with your scaremongering - but it doesn't wash.
We (VCCs) know how hard it is back in the office and what is waiting for us when we return -we will be backfilling for other staff in turn.
Hard work and long hours....not for short-term financial gain - far from it.
But for medium term job security.
Keep trying Duggie but your angle is old, misdirected - and totally and utterly wrong.
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Hence my analogy between the Savoy and McDonalds. Whilst we offer a premium service the set up and delivery are still far more McDonalds than Savoy.
Having had the enormous pleasure of flying Club World recently, may I ask that you could direct me to the McDonalds you speak of? (that'll be the one that offers service with a genuine smile, is relaxed and unhurried, offers excellent champagne, wines and port and food that is palatable)
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The problem at BA Giza, is that there are too many groundstaff like you. You prove my point by being able to be released from your 'day job' to be a VCC.
BA only has 25 more aircraft than RyanAir, but 32,000 extra employees. What are they doing? Not much by all accounts, as so many are available to fly.
VCC crew like Giza will find themselves redundant in the near future as BA moves its headquarters to Madrid. Waterside will be closed down and BA will become a sateliite operationfor IAG based at LHR. There won't even be any further AGM's in London, besides the fact the deal is 56% in BA's favour.
That is the thanks you are going to get from Willie.
BA only has 25 more aircraft than RyanAir, but 32,000 extra employees. What are they doing? Not much by all accounts, as so many are available to fly.
VCC crew like Giza will find themselves redundant in the near future as BA moves its headquarters to Madrid. Waterside will be closed down and BA will become a sateliite operationfor IAG based at LHR. There won't even be any further AGM's in London, besides the fact the deal is 56% in BA's favour.
That is the thanks you are going to get from Willie.
Ryanair & similar carriers only sell over the internet - BA still maintains a telesales force plus sales teams who work with travel agents and key accounts.
Ryanair do not undertake their own aircraft maintenance.
Ryanair have a shoestring IT operation
Ryanair have a very simple operation to manage - they only work on point to point so the IT systems needs are very straightforward and ca be bought off the shelf.
Ryanair and similar carriers use a minimal number of aircraft types.
Now BA by comparison has a highly complex network, operated by a large number of different aircraft. It runs it's own maintenance and has leading edge but highly complex IT systems, including many of the shelf solutions that have been extensively tailored to suit the BA business model.
If you tot up the numbers of people that Ryan air or Eastjet indirectly employ, you will find the cabin crew to ground staff ratio is not that different to BA.
Oh and the other thing you might care to contemplate is that Ryanair have 25 fewer aircraft, yet their whole operation has fewer staff than the total number of BA cabin crew - makes you wonder what all those crew are doing...
Face it, drawing a comparison with a low cost carrier doesn't make the BA operation look particularly efficient from any angle, but then the basis is flawed. I thought that one of the reasons for the current dispute was that crew were striving to maintain a premium operation - so comparing it to a single class low cost outfit is patently ridiculous.
People in glass houses.....
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Quote:
Hence my analogy between the Savoy and McDonalds. Whilst we offer a premium service the set up and delivery are still far more McDonalds than Savoy.
Er, not quite.
Having had the enormous pleasure of flying Club World recently, may I ask that you could direct me to the McDonalds you speak of? (that'll be the one that offers service with a genuine smile, is relaxed and unhurried, offers excellent champagne, wines and port and food that is palatable)
Hence my analogy between the Savoy and McDonalds. Whilst we offer a premium service the set up and delivery are still far more McDonalds than Savoy.
Er, not quite.
Having had the enormous pleasure of flying Club World recently, may I ask that you could direct me to the McDonalds you speak of? (that'll be the one that offers service with a genuine smile, is relaxed and unhurried, offers excellent champagne, wines and port and food that is palatable)
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Premium service is not what it used to be 30 or even 20 years ago. Meals are no longer prepared on board,
I do remember an old CSD describing how he once toasted a slice of bread with a lighter because HMQueenie had requested a slice and he didn't want to refuse!
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Colonel White
Fortunately standards haven't slipped that much - I can't remember ever handing out quarter wine bottles in Club World except during the strike. It's been full bottles for the 23 years I've been flying. I think they do quarter bottles in Club Europe though.
Fortunately standards haven't slipped that much - I can't remember ever handing out quarter wine bottles in Club World except during the strike. It's been full bottles for the 23 years I've been flying. I think they do quarter bottles in Club Europe though.
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BA is grossly overstaffed, even outstations like IAH and LAX are able to supply VCC's.
The staff who have been released from their normal duties to train and if necessary fly, prove they are surplus to requirements. These are not essential employees.
BA loves to compare the T&C's of its cabin crew with low cost operators, so why can't I point out the huge differential in employee numbers, especially as Willie Walsh's aim is to have a global premium airline, with a low cost base.
Whilst VCC's are swanning around Cranebank, someone else is doing their job. It is rather sad to think they believe they are "Backing BA" , but are actually volunteering themselves out of a job. What a great yet inadvertent and unintentional way for BA to prove how overstaffed it is, and hopefully the airline will cut out the jobs of these superfluous employees.
The staff who have been released from their normal duties to train and if necessary fly, prove they are surplus to requirements. These are not essential employees.
BA loves to compare the T&C's of its cabin crew with low cost operators, so why can't I point out the huge differential in employee numbers, especially as Willie Walsh's aim is to have a global premium airline, with a low cost base.
Whilst VCC's are swanning around Cranebank, someone else is doing their job. It is rather sad to think they believe they are "Backing BA" , but are actually volunteering themselves out of a job. What a great yet inadvertent and unintentional way for BA to prove how overstaffed it is, and hopefully the airline will cut out the jobs of these superfluous employees.
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Duggie Fashion,
several people here have in the not so distant past pointed out that VCCs have actually shown the company how much they are needed within their own department. Their colleagues who remain in the office or wherever they're based are working long hard shifts to make up for the colleagues who are VCC. I don't expect you or anyone else who are pro-strike to believe me, but I did want to point it out.
May I ask you how you feel about the suspensions/sackings? I'm not asking in a confrontational way, I'm just interested to hear your view. Most strikers seem to think that those crewmembers should all be instated, no matter what they've done. I'd be quite interested to know how you feel about it. Thank you.
several people here have in the not so distant past pointed out that VCCs have actually shown the company how much they are needed within their own department. Their colleagues who remain in the office or wherever they're based are working long hard shifts to make up for the colleagues who are VCC. I don't expect you or anyone else who are pro-strike to believe me, but I did want to point it out.
May I ask you how you feel about the suspensions/sackings? I'm not asking in a confrontational way, I'm just interested to hear your view. Most strikers seem to think that those crewmembers should all be instated, no matter what they've done. I'd be quite interested to know how you feel about it. Thank you.