British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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I cannot understand, how current crew can possibly see a positive future once mixed fleet has begun. Try asking yourself a few questions:
1. Are you prepared to work for long in a job, where promotion will be virtually non existent (at best), or totally non existent ( worst)
2. Top up monthly payment is not contractual ( otherwise it would have formed a non pensionable top up to your basic salary). The company can legally change this or stop paying, whenever they choose ( 3-5 yrs max I predict!!)
3. Long Haul ( only night stops!!) It will probably again be 3-5 yrs before all our Long ranges, and associated double nights have moved. How soul destroying will that be? You might as well work on the Paddington Express, for the amount of the world you will actually see!!
4. We're not even allowed to join the growing new fleet by the sounds of things, and even if we could, not without a massive pay cut! 13 years experience counts for nothing, so no fast track promotion, even for those with an unblemished record. An 18 yr with no flying experience can however! Is this not wrong?
5. Are you part time? Do you want to ever go part time? Will you be able to afford to go part time. Bearing in mind the 900hr rule is not prorata, it is highly likely you could end up working a full time rota on a part time salary. Again from a long haul perspective (75% contract), this could translate as 4 trips every month with the minimum of variable pay.
6. It is highly likely that new fleet will not work. We are after all a serviced based industry,and low wages will not attract the best people, and certainly not for long. Unfortunately, by the time BA realise this, it will probably be too late, and most of our (remaining) loyal customers will have switched airlines for good. How are BA going to pay for the next restructure?
7. Without a strong Trade Union, Who is going to protect your T&C'c?. Are you prepared to work 1-2 down regularly, with no incentives? minimum rest?, sub-standard hotels? flexible rosters? reduced MBT,s? ground duties?, but most importantly are you prepared/can you afford to work with a considerable reduction in variable ( non contractual pay).
8. Pension: Was 55, now 65, likely to be 75. 6500k/year!!! if your lucky!!! Planning to retire abroad? treat the grand children? stay warm in winter?
The future in my eyes is really bleak. If someone who is crew could please highlight some positives in staying at BA, I would be really grateful. I do love my job, I just hate the way it is changing.
1. Are you prepared to work for long in a job, where promotion will be virtually non existent (at best), or totally non existent ( worst)
2. Top up monthly payment is not contractual ( otherwise it would have formed a non pensionable top up to your basic salary). The company can legally change this or stop paying, whenever they choose ( 3-5 yrs max I predict!!)
3. Long Haul ( only night stops!!) It will probably again be 3-5 yrs before all our Long ranges, and associated double nights have moved. How soul destroying will that be? You might as well work on the Paddington Express, for the amount of the world you will actually see!!
4. We're not even allowed to join the growing new fleet by the sounds of things, and even if we could, not without a massive pay cut! 13 years experience counts for nothing, so no fast track promotion, even for those with an unblemished record. An 18 yr with no flying experience can however! Is this not wrong?
5. Are you part time? Do you want to ever go part time? Will you be able to afford to go part time. Bearing in mind the 900hr rule is not prorata, it is highly likely you could end up working a full time rota on a part time salary. Again from a long haul perspective (75% contract), this could translate as 4 trips every month with the minimum of variable pay.
6. It is highly likely that new fleet will not work. We are after all a serviced based industry,and low wages will not attract the best people, and certainly not for long. Unfortunately, by the time BA realise this, it will probably be too late, and most of our (remaining) loyal customers will have switched airlines for good. How are BA going to pay for the next restructure?
7. Without a strong Trade Union, Who is going to protect your T&C'c?. Are you prepared to work 1-2 down regularly, with no incentives? minimum rest?, sub-standard hotels? flexible rosters? reduced MBT,s? ground duties?, but most importantly are you prepared/can you afford to work with a considerable reduction in variable ( non contractual pay).
8. Pension: Was 55, now 65, likely to be 75. 6500k/year!!! if your lucky!!! Planning to retire abroad? treat the grand children? stay warm in winter?
The future in my eyes is really bleak. If someone who is crew could please highlight some positives in staying at BA, I would be really grateful. I do love my job, I just hate the way it is changing.
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How come if they were the "good old days" BASSA still had a dispute with the company almost every year?
Did they not have strikes in '92, '97 and 2007?
It seems to me that cabin crew and BASSA have never been happy and always been at war with the CEO of the time.
They just seem particularly unhappy this time as they aren't getting their way.
As for the comment about large size volunteers, we do have a number of current crew struggling to fit in to the uniform, a bit of a thoughtless, offensive remark I feel.
Did they not have strikes in '92, '97 and 2007?
It seems to me that cabin crew and BASSA have never been happy and always been at war with the CEO of the time.
They just seem particularly unhappy this time as they aren't getting their way.
As for the comment about large size volunteers, we do have a number of current crew struggling to fit in to the uniform, a bit of a thoughtless, offensive remark I feel.
Last edited by plodding along; 24th Aug 2010 at 11:08.
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Mohitomaster, it's such a shame that we have ended up this way. If only we had a union that was interested in representing us rather than looking after the interests of the reps themselves. This whole dreadful mess could have been avoided if BASSA could have extended their vocabulary to include more than the word no.
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Originally Posted by mohitomaster
1. Are you prepared to work for long in a job, where promotion will be virtually non existent (at best), or totally non existent ( worst)
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
2. Top up monthly payment is not contractual ( otherwise it would have formed a non pensionable top up to your basic salary). The company can legally change this or stop paying, whenever they choose ( 3-5 yrs max I predict!!)
Let's not blame BA solely for the negative elements of the latest offer - we've had better offers in the past but Bassa's seeming inability to look at the bigger picture has meant that many good elements of previous offers have been taken off the table and won't be seen again.
Granted, we've not seen anything more positive in terms of the topup payments, but had Bassa negotiated properly previously, they could have secured something.
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
3. Long Haul ( only night stops!!) It will probably again be 3-5 yrs before all our Long ranges, and associated double nights have moved. How soul destroying will that be? You might as well work on the Paddington Express, for the amount of the world you will actually see!!
Nightstopping doesn't suit me at all, which is why I'm doing something about it.
It makes me sad that Heathrow is going to change so drastically - it's provided a great way of life for tens of thousands of people over the years - but let's remember that BA owes us nothing; as much as we all (myself included) may lose sight of that fact and expect that they do.
If you don't like your job, you leave. Why is it that so many people who either hate the job (we all know they're out there) or REALLY don't need this job (there are some very intelligent and wealthy people flying as crew) continue to do this job? It's because we're so well treated by the company, as much as, again, many often lose sight of this fact.
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
4. We're not even allowed to join the growing new fleet by the sounds of things, and even if we could, not without a massive pay cut! 13 years experience counts for nothing, so no fast track promotion, even for those with an unblemished record. An 18 yr with no flying experience can however! Is this not wrong?
But you're right that it's bad how difficult BA has made it for existing crew to move to Mixed Fleet.
Again though, I must refer to my above comment : BA owes us nothing.
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
5. Are you part time? Do you want to ever go part time? Will you be able to afford to go part time. Bearing in mind the 900hr rule is not prorata, it is highly likely you could end up working a full time rota on a part time salary. Again from a long haul perspective (75% contract), this could translate as 4 trips every month with the minimum of variable pay.
When you become crew with BA it's made clear that you'll be expected to work unsociable hours, miss events etc. Why is it that when people are actually faced with these things, they think the company owes them a way out?
And part time? I'd suspect a far higher percentage of BA crew are part time than employees in any other major business - not just airlines - in this country.
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
6. It is highly likely that new fleet will not work. We are after all a serviced based industry,and low wages will not attract the best people, and certainly not for long. Unfortunately, by the time BA realise this, it will probably be too late, and most of our (remaining) loyal customers will have switched airlines for good. How are BA going to pay for the next restructure?
When I joined BA I expected, as advertised, a basic of £9,500.00 a year and £500.00 a month in allowances. I expected to take home about £1,200.00 a month at best. When I ended up clearing about £1,500.00 I couldn't believe it.
I think Mixed Fleet crew will earn more than they expect, but BA wants to attract people for all the right reasons, not for the cash. That's where they've (BA) gone wrong in the past.
Everyone thought Gatwick would struggle to hold on to good crew, and that the customer would suffer, but Gatwick is regularly above LHR in GPM results. It's because the crew there WANT to be there, and don't just HAVE to be there.
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
7. Without a strong Trade Union, Who is going to protect your T&C'c?. Are you prepared to work 1-2 down regularly, with no incentives? minimum rest?, sub-standard hotels? flexible rosters? reduced MBT,s? ground duties?, but most importantly are you prepared/can you afford to work with a considerable reduction in variable ( non contractual pay).
An employee council made up of those who will directly benefit (or suffer) as a result of their own negotiations is surely the best way to ensure that everyone is happy.
Gatwick has ALWAYS suffered as a result of letting a union branch made up of Heathrow based crew do its negotiating. Mixed Fleet will (or would, if it looked like Bassa would survive this) suffer in the same way.
Originally Posted by mohitomaster
8. Pension: Was 55, now 65, likely to be 75. 6500k/year!!! if your lucky!!! Planning to retire abroad? treat the grand children? stay warm in winter?
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Who in their right mind believes this rubbish.......
I cannot seriously believe that we employ people daft enough to be taken in by this endless stream of tripe that comes out of BASSA? It beggars belief?
So todays little tale would have you believe that an 18 year old with part-time experience as a waitress has been asked to apply for the CSM role? Funny because last time I looked on BA.com it clearly stated :-
Job Description
Customer Service Manager
This opportunity is open externally to Senior Cabin Crew Members (SCCMs) (past & present) who have 24 months full time or equivalent flying experience (with 12+ months on Longhaul) within the last 5 years of which 3 months should be in the last 3 years with BA or another airline.
Having worked in Cabin Crew Selection for many years I can tell you categorically that if a candidate doesn't meet the required criteria, they will not be selected for interview. Not entirely sure how an 18 year old bar worker and retail assistant quite qualifies? But hey, don't let the TRUTH get in the way of a good story!
Back to the drawing board DH. Can BASSA only gather support from it's membership by feeding it lies and more lies. This one will have to go down with the 'it will take 5 minutes to re-instate staff travel' and 'day 2 of strike - only 26 people have reported for duty today'!
Come on guys wake up! Your union cannot be trusted and is taking you for fools!
So todays little tale would have you believe that an 18 year old with part-time experience as a waitress has been asked to apply for the CSM role? Funny because last time I looked on BA.com it clearly stated :-
Job Description
Customer Service Manager
This opportunity is open externally to Senior Cabin Crew Members (SCCMs) (past & present) who have 24 months full time or equivalent flying experience (with 12+ months on Longhaul) within the last 5 years of which 3 months should be in the last 3 years with BA or another airline.
Having worked in Cabin Crew Selection for many years I can tell you categorically that if a candidate doesn't meet the required criteria, they will not be selected for interview. Not entirely sure how an 18 year old bar worker and retail assistant quite qualifies? But hey, don't let the TRUTH get in the way of a good story!
Back to the drawing board DH. Can BASSA only gather support from it's membership by feeding it lies and more lies. This one will have to go down with the 'it will take 5 minutes to re-instate staff travel' and 'day 2 of strike - only 26 people have reported for duty today'!
Come on guys wake up! Your union cannot be trusted and is taking you for fools!
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Eddy:
Eddy - I really look forward to flying with you.
It's heartening to read such lucid, erudite and thoughtful posts.
You (and others like you) will have a good and long future in BA, contrary to the petulant and spiteful scaremongering.
Our futures (like everyone else's) won't be like the past, but we can make them good, nonetheless.
Cheers
It's heartening to read such lucid, erudite and thoughtful posts.
You (and others like you) will have a good and long future in BA, contrary to the petulant and spiteful scaremongering.
Our futures (like everyone else's) won't be like the past, but we can make them good, nonetheless.
Cheers
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Chigley - the voice of reason!
So BASSA would have us believe that the poor girl went to Easyjet rather than become a MF CSM?!!!
It is more likely that she failed her MF maincrew interview and poor Mummy had to come up with some excuse as to why the daughter of one of BA's finest failed to get a job. Maybe she had been listening to her Mum for interview tips and became "contaminated"?
So BASSA would have us believe that the poor girl went to Easyjet rather than become a MF CSM?!!!
It is more likely that she failed her MF maincrew interview and poor Mummy had to come up with some excuse as to why the daughter of one of BA's finest failed to get a job. Maybe she had been listening to her Mum for interview tips and became "contaminated"?
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Mojitomaster
Not another one who doesn't read anything from BA? If you look at Bill's webchat 28th June - post 104 and 107, you will find that the top up payment is in fact 'Contractual'. As it forms part of our pay it becomes part of our contract and remains so until otherwise negotiated with our elected reps. Also, to be reviewed in line with base pay. If your statement were true, then our current allowance system of pay can be withdrawn as that is not pensionable?
Hotwings
I like your thinking re the reason for the young girl going to easyjet. However, I think it's possibly more likely that this girl never existed and is merely a figment of someone's very active imagination. Maybe talking to tomatoes is starting to take it's toll?
Not another one who doesn't read anything from BA? If you look at Bill's webchat 28th June - post 104 and 107, you will find that the top up payment is in fact 'Contractual'. As it forms part of our pay it becomes part of our contract and remains so until otherwise negotiated with our elected reps. Also, to be reviewed in line with base pay. If your statement were true, then our current allowance system of pay can be withdrawn as that is not pensionable?
Hotwings
I like your thinking re the reason for the young girl going to easyjet. However, I think it's possibly more likely that this girl never existed and is merely a figment of someone's very active imagination. Maybe talking to tomatoes is starting to take it's toll?
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So the recruitment staff have been hired for 18 months. Wow!!!!
Anyone who has worked in recruitment recently will be able to tell you that BA have been using outside recruitment companies for years. When I worked in recruitment they used a company called Hudsons. When interviewing sometimes only one in ten are successful.
If BA trained up 30 New entrants each week (and that would be eight courses running at one time, 15 per course and each course running for 4 weeks min) in one year they would only have been able to have trained up 1560 crew.
Having said that it is highly unlightly that they would have that many courses going at one time for a whole year. So how can this new fleet possibly expand as fast as BASSA are making out. Especially as it would make no sense to leave all of us sitting at home with our garanteed monthy allowance and basic pay!!!!!
BASSA are scaremongering and have been, throughout this dispute and it is a really cruel thing to be doing to their own members. I just wish more of them would look at this thread and see the light!
Anyone who has worked in recruitment recently will be able to tell you that BA have been using outside recruitment companies for years. When I worked in recruitment they used a company called Hudsons. When interviewing sometimes only one in ten are successful.
If BA trained up 30 New entrants each week (and that would be eight courses running at one time, 15 per course and each course running for 4 weeks min) in one year they would only have been able to have trained up 1560 crew.
Having said that it is highly unlightly that they would have that many courses going at one time for a whole year. So how can this new fleet possibly expand as fast as BASSA are making out. Especially as it would make no sense to leave all of us sitting at home with our garanteed monthy allowance and basic pay!!!!!
BASSA are scaremongering and have been, throughout this dispute and it is a really cruel thing to be doing to their own members. I just wish more of them would look at this thread and see the light!
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Question for the CSD/Pursers who don't like us temps!!
Please can you explain to me why it is that in the briefing you find it necessary to point out to others that I or we are a temp? Ive had this on numerous occasions and this has then set the tone for the rest of the trip/flight...........................................
FYI
We are temp, not an ailen! We are NOT volunteers! We are trained to the same level as you, and do exactly the same job! We are generally all very nice , and hard working people who want to do their job well.
As a result of many uncomfortable briefings, I have on many occasions being outcast and I find this totally unacceptable!
I would like to point out I have flown with some very nice people, but of late, I have felt left out and indeed on one of my long trips over heard crew saying ' don't tell her our plans or she will want to come too'! Is this really the way to be towards your fellow team members????
To be honest I cant wait to get on to MF, because I will work with like minded indivduals who all want to be there and do a fantastic job. Today was a classic example of some of the crews attitude - One of them said ' im only giving the pax what is on our service flow, nothing more! Well, time permitting why are some of us like this??
Rant over!
FYI
We are temp, not an ailen! We are NOT volunteers! We are trained to the same level as you, and do exactly the same job! We are generally all very nice , and hard working people who want to do their job well.
As a result of many uncomfortable briefings, I have on many occasions being outcast and I find this totally unacceptable!
I would like to point out I have flown with some very nice people, but of late, I have felt left out and indeed on one of my long trips over heard crew saying ' don't tell her our plans or she will want to come too'! Is this really the way to be towards your fellow team members????
To be honest I cant wait to get on to MF, because I will work with like minded indivduals who all want to be there and do a fantastic job. Today was a classic example of some of the crews attitude - One of them said ' im only giving the pax what is on our service flow, nothing more! Well, time permitting why are some of us like this??
Rant over!
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Hi Ptc,
I am glad you have got into mixed fleet. Good luck and I hope you enjoy it.
I am sorry that some crew have been treating you so badly it is not at all nice and I am very suprised that they cannot see that you are just a new entrant like they were once. It amazes me that they could be so mean.
Did BA change their mind about you temps because a few weeks ago you posted that you had all received emails saying you could not go to Mixed Fleet or did you missunderstand the message you got?
Anyway glad you are happy.
I am glad you have got into mixed fleet. Good luck and I hope you enjoy it.
I am sorry that some crew have been treating you so badly it is not at all nice and I am very suprised that they cannot see that you are just a new entrant like they were once. It amazes me that they could be so mean.
Did BA change their mind about you temps because a few weeks ago you posted that you had all received emails saying you could not go to Mixed Fleet or did you missunderstand the message you got?
Anyway glad you are happy.
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HI Betty Girl
BA actually sent us all an apology email a as the original email went out in error!
There are a few temps who have not been successful in getting MF, these seem to be the people who came back last month. All us original temps( feb joiners), so far all seem to have been successful!
It is a real shame like you say some crew are being so cold, its got to the point now, that I actually hate going to work, as I feel so alone. Thats why I look forward to MF, where we all have the same passion and motivation! I just wish at the mo I could just fly with all the nicer crew!!!
BA actually sent us all an apology email a as the original email went out in error!
There are a few temps who have not been successful in getting MF, these seem to be the people who came back last month. All us original temps( feb joiners), so far all seem to have been successful!
It is a real shame like you say some crew are being so cold, its got to the point now, that I actually hate going to work, as I feel so alone. Thats why I look forward to MF, where we all have the same passion and motivation! I just wish at the mo I could just fly with all the nicer crew!!!
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@ ptc
ptc, I am sorry to hear about you feeling uncomfortable and left out on some of your trips. Believe me, you are not alone - I felt that way and am
not temp crew
. I must say I havent flown with any temp crew so far,
but as a non-striker I get the same treatment! Even though I dont
advertise that I came to work during the strikes, I have been asked a
few times and I am honest and say I did work and after that some crew
hardly speak to me and I can tell they somehow spread the news to the other end of the aircraft...childish really.
I just do my job the best I can, am polite to the rest of the crew but downroute do my own thing...fortunately I am one of those people who
enjoy my own company. I sincerely wish you all the best in MF and, who knows, we may fly together before you transfer. Stay strong!!!
not temp crew
. I must say I havent flown with any temp crew so far,but as a non-striker I get the same treatment! Even though I dont
advertise that I came to work during the strikes, I have been asked a
few times and I am honest and say I did work and after that some crew
hardly speak to me and I can tell they somehow spread the news to the other end of the aircraft...childish really.
I just do my job the best I can, am polite to the rest of the crew but downroute do my own thing...fortunately I am one of those people who
enjoy my own company. I sincerely wish you all the best in MF and, who knows, we may fly together before you transfer. Stay strong!!!
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Ptc,
Do you fly on EF as well because I hope it would not be so bad over here. I have not yet flown with any temps but I have flown with other EF crew who have and they had good flights.
I find that many of the crew that I fly with came to work during the strike. Sometimes I fly with an obvious striker but mostly on EF you would find it hard to work out who did or didn't strike. I feel very sorry for you lot on WW because I think the working enviroment is totally different over there and I do hope it recovers for you all.
Do you fly on EF as well because I hope it would not be so bad over here. I have not yet flown with any temps but I have flown with other EF crew who have and they had good flights.
I find that many of the crew that I fly with came to work during the strike. Sometimes I fly with an obvious striker but mostly on EF you would find it hard to work out who did or didn't strike. I feel very sorry for you lot on WW because I think the working enviroment is totally different over there and I do hope it recovers for you all.
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Betty Girl
I have flown alot recently on EF and generally found the crew to be a breath of fresh air ! However, I have also had a flight (only 1), recently where the SCCM didn't even make eye contact with me and spent the whole briefing moaning, knowing fine well I was a temp! This flight, thankfully has been my only diffucult EF, but as I was on a day trip, I didn't care as I just got on with my work and went home!
I have flown alot recently on EF and generally found the crew to be a breath of fresh air ! However, I have also had a flight (only 1), recently where the SCCM didn't even make eye contact with me and spent the whole briefing moaning, knowing fine well I was a temp! This flight, thankfully has been my only diffucult EF, but as I was on a day trip, I didn't care as I just got on with my work and went home!
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@Betty
I agree with you Bettygirl... I transfered to W/W in 2003 but have 2 good friends who are still on E/F and they say exactly the same you mentioned.
For some reason, it seems we have more "radicals" on W/W and I really could relate to ptc and the terrible feeling of being the odd ball in some crews. Just like ptc said, many times it starts in the briefing room when
the CSD is not professional and allows all the badmouthing even before we go to the aircraft...
For some reason, it seems we have more "radicals" on W/W and I really could relate to ptc and the terrible feeling of being the odd ball in some crews. Just like ptc said, many times it starts in the briefing room when
the CSD is not professional and allows all the badmouthing even before we go to the aircraft...